Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Wow, another LHS closes down
TopSmith
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 12:17 PM UTC
Here in Tacoma we had 4 nice hobby shops. Life was good. The third one is now closing. The primary model shop closed first, the discount model shop closed and now the slot car/ RC car shop is closing. The only one left is the RC plane and small model section shop. The paint selection is now a small model master rack. We gained a HOBBY LOBBY but their selection of model kits is to small for me to be interested in stopping by.

I am being drug, kicking and screaming, into having to shop exclusively online. I loved to be able to stop by after work and brows and to feel the merchandise, to scrutinise the difference between close shades of paint. Now I get the privilege of buying paint by name and not by sight. So if you get some silly question about proper color or shade, be kind and forgiving of those that are now relegated to selecting the proper color sight unseen.
The_musings_of_NBNoG
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 02:33 PM UTC
I really understand your situation,,,
here in Portland, OR. ; lost our only independent model store a year or two back.

This owner made incredible wooden ships...top flight!... he was retired and bought the B&M store from some other guy... that seemed to be in it for the money.

the ship guy held it together keeping the old (and knowledgeable ) employees, even !

but as hard as he tried... the money was mainly coming from gamer's piecemeal sales;

the modelers were Already taking their initial buys to the net

and then looking for only detailing and paint to his B&M.

[Brick & Mortar]


there is no way a business can even make its overhead by selling a 2oz bottle of paint each day of the month.

not even 10 bottles of 2oz paint EACH DAY of the MONTH

WE all have a mortgage and B&M stores have a monthly rent.
SDavies
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 02:42 PM UTC
I live in London and I don't know any model stores in the city.

I have to get everything online
GazzaS
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 02:43 PM UTC
We need more war movies to inspire newer generations to build models. I bet today's young fellas would recognize an Orc before they'd recognize an F4U Corsair.

My LHS has one row of models and five rows of toys. It's one helluva row of models, but there is no AM in store.

...and you know how it is...you're on Ebay looking for decals and you happen upon that deal you can't let pass...

Best Wishs,

Gary
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 04:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Here in Tacoma we had 4 nice hobby shops. Life was good. The third one is now closing. The primary model shop closed first, the discount model shop closed and now the slot car/ RC car shop is closing. The only one left is the RC plane and small model section shop. The paint selection is now a small model master rack. We gained a HOBBY LOBBY but their selection of model kits is to small for me to be interested in stopping by.

I am being drug, kicking and screaming, into having to shop exclusively online. I loved to be able to stop by after work and brows and to feel the merchandise, to scrutinise the difference between close shades of paint. Now I get the privilege of buying paint by name and not by sight. So if you get some silly question about proper color or shade, be kind and forgiving of those that are now relegated to selecting the proper color sight unseen.



We should all get used to this situation, not that I like it ONE SINGLE BIT!!!

There hasn't been a Local Hobby Shop in my immediate area since about 1980. The closest is about 60 miles away, and they cater to the mini-drone crowd. I suspect that the existence of the old-style, friendly and personable LHS is disappearing because of the overwhelming presence of electronic "beep-beep, boop-boop games" and cell-phones, which are dominating the younger crop of what could otherwise have been a whole new generation of modellers. That and the growing popularity of mail-order houses that keep the prices of models down to "reasonable"-levels, which as you all know, are becoming more and more expensive by the minute.

Sites such as ebay and dedicated online hobby outlets sell models and supplies at a considerable discount off retail, which unfortunately, the traditional hobby shops can no longer compete with, or afford to do. Combined with a lack of established local customers, new customers who just aren't interested in our hobby...

Even long established modellers are feeling the pinch of rising costs within our crowd, and I see more and more modellers on this site saying that they will wait until prices come down before they splurge on the latest kit, myself included...

I can only see a very dim future for the old-style "Mom & Pop Hobby Shop"...
maximus8425
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 04:36 PM UTC
Without hi-jacking this thread I thought it worth posting the link to this model shop based in the North East of England.

http://northeastmodelcentre.co.uk/

The web page doesn't begin to catalogue the items it has in store, a very comprehensive range of model kits of all types (armour, aircraft, ships, figures etc.) and possibly the best selection of paints I have ever seen from all of the major manufacturers. They have brushes, tools and card/brass stock also. They cater to the RC, drone, rail and shipbuilding crowd also. If you live near Chester le Street it is well worth a look. Even if you don't it is 5 minutes off the A1 motorway or about 15 minutes drive from Durham City.

I have no affiliation to the owners of this shop but feel that small independants like this need a helping hand when you see LHS closing everywhere.

Max
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 04:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

We need more war movies to inspire newer generations to build models. I bet today's young fellas would recognize an Orc before they'd recognize an F4U Corsair.

My LHS has one row of models and five rows of toys. It's one helluva row of models, but there is no AM in store.

...and you know how it is...you're on Ebay looking for decals and you happen upon that deal you can't let pass...

Best Wishs,

Gary



Unfortunately, war/historical movies or mini-series don't captivate the imagination of younger viewers the way some of these RIDICULOUS movies, computer games and cell-phones do. Unless Hitler or Patton is doing Ninja-style back-flips and DESTROYING the entire Planet while doing so, the vast majority of that audience HAS NO INTEREST in building ANY kind of model, much less the specialized stuff that we build within the Aircraft/Military Vehicles and Figure-making community. The only skill that the "Gee-Whiz" electronic things impart are nimble button-pushing finger dexterity. What's more, to these individuals who are ADDICTED to these non-mind-expanding pursuits, an Orc IS much more interesting than an F4U...
Sudzonic
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 05:08 PM UTC
There is no LHS where I am, the nearest is a hobby craft that is an overnight ferry trip away. There is a local toy shop that sells some airfix/humbrol stock and another that sells warhammer products. I have to mail order 99% of the things I need it is a bit frustrating when all I need is a pot of paint, I just wait and bulk buy when I need new paints etc.
wowcool
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Solomon Islands
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 06:46 PM UTC
Model kits should work hand in hand with video games and popular media. All the Easy Eight Sherman kits released after "Fury" came out in theatres and how ship model kits transformed from shelf warmers to hot sellers in Japan are interesting cases. You'll need customers who are interested in the subject first before you expect anyone to buy your kits. BTW, there are orc model kits and a entire model kit line dedicated to fantasy subjects.

With so many children playing first-person shooters and other war video games, you'd think a handful of them would have considered picking up a plastic model kit of their favourite tank or aircraft. Keeping the art of scale modeling alive is an incredibly complicated issue and goes much deeper than scapegoating popular media. However, it's also media's fault for not endorsing plastic model kits as part of their merchandise.
Cuny12
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 06:53 PM UTC
I have tried numerous times to introduce my son to the hobby which hasn't worked as well as I hoped.

I blame this on a couple of reasons the first being, game consoles they are well and truly hung up on them and the second which in part is due to the first is that the younger generation learn to sit down in front of the television for hours on end through gaming consoles.

My son just recently built an academy Roman warship that had sat there for a year or so the reason he built it was because he is banned from the PlayStation and I persisted in not allowing him to go back on it and look what happened, Dad can I borrow your tools and build my Roman warship.

Generations have changed for the worst in some respects, I grew up with no gaming consoles and an interest to make things indoors or out doors whichever I wasn't phased.

In years to come I don't think we will see local hobby stores like we are used too and online shopping will be the only way.

Just my thoughts, cheers Ben.
pstansell
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 07:36 PM UTC
Let us not blame the marketplace or each other entirely. Unfortunately, it seems that some folks are just not very good at running these things.

My late friend, Al Slisinger, owned and operated two LHS in the Detroit area for many years. Al was a very smart businessman, but in later years he sometimes had a hard time "cracking his nut."

My lessons from Al:

1) Keep stock shallow, but wide. Lots of stuff, but only one or two of everything.

2) Find out what gets people excited. Don't open a shop to sell just what YOU like. That's the kiss of death.

3) New stuff: get it while it's new. Also see number #1

4) Bird in the hand. Discount mail order is hard to compete with, but nothing beats finding that thing you really want. Most buyers will disregard a small price difference if they REALLY want it.

5) Keep it small. Keep it cheap. Al always had a very modest space. His shops were in the greater Detroit area, so rent was relatively cheap. London, NYC, DC are always going to be tough for retail.

6) Diversify. Al had a lively collection business. He bought collections and sold them. Many times he was able to satisfy #2 just with old stuff. He sold on Ebay a lot, too. M&Models is a good example of diversification: they take their show on the road. Doing shows is a great way to get at your crowd.

7) Be careful who you buy from. Some hobby distributors are also have retail mail order arms. You don't want to be undercut by your sources.

8) Buy from unconventional sources. The internet can work for retailers, too! Lots of foreign manufacturers will sell direct. Small ones love to get their products out there.

It was cancer that finally put Al out of business. I still miss that bastard something fierce.

Pat
MMiR

SEDimmick
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 07:42 PM UTC
Personally I think people put far too much emphasis on the supposed decline of modelling on console/computer gaming. Console gaming has been around since the mid-late 1970s and my generation (myself being 41 years old and the first group to be exposed to it) still has people who got into modelling and still play video games.

The biggest thing and the one thing it seems like lots of people have a hard time wrapping their heads around...is that the Western World (Europe and the US) has pretty much no influence over what is going on in the hobby industry...the growth is coming from the Chinese market, thus why we've seen the huge influx of new model companies over the past 10 years.

It sucks that the LHS have been closing, but given how much cheaper it can be if you have to drive a significant distance to get one, ordering online would still be cheaper overall. For me, I live about an hour from AAA Hobbies aka Stevens International. Their kit prices are astronomically high in the shop...I can order the same thing from an online store or even HK for almost $20-30 cheaper. Supplies are the going rate as online due to lack of markup on them. Yeah they have to make the mortgage themselves, but if I can save some money to help pay mine, I'm going to go that route instead.

Anyways...what it boils down to is the world is changing (for better or worse,depending on your viewpoint), and you have to adapt to it.
wowcool
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Solomon Islands
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 07:54 PM UTC
As much as I like the online stores, the more physical stores close, the less people will be exposed to the hobby.
SgtRam
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#197
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 07:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


One line retailers provide all of these advantages:

-greater convenience.





I have to disagree with this. Have a good LHS is more convenient then having to order online. People have to remember that spending your hobby dollars online hurts your LHS. While the prices may be a little higher at LHS, you are paying for convenience and service.

There is nothing better then meeting with other hobbyist at the LHS to discuss our hobby, learn new techniques, share stories, etc.

People need to get out from behind the computer, and start to socialize more.

As for issues for LHS, online discounters are a big issue, but so are some companies that obtaining exclusive distribution rights, and setting prices for LHS and not allowing LHS to set their own prices to compete. Plus most of these companies getting distribution rights are also selling online, which means competition from the person you are buying from.
skyshark
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:11 PM UTC
WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!
Here is the honest truth about this. It's our fault. How many have shows and have no make and take for kids. We are to concern about getting a kit and building it so big and with every bell and turn barrel to get that award or thophy. We need to start getting kids in our clubs to get interested in building models. Go to the schools and talk to the admin and see if we can see if these kids want to build a kit. Ever heard of science fairs ect.... We have to get off our soap box of trying to be the best and turn to the kids and show them. How about each club for the next year have no shows less the nationals. Put out the info for 2-3 months about a make and take show. The kids show up build a kit and at the end have a contest on the finished or progressed kits. We had a talk about this this month at our club meeting which is held at our great LHS (Hayes Hobby in Fayetteville NC). Someone said the hobby will die with us. It's our fault because we need to involve more kids. We can fix this we just have to get involved before we lose what we love to do.

One more thing. How many have visited their local VA. In some cases you don't have to buy the kits. Some VA's have a big supply of them. Most of us are Veteran's ourselves. Go to the Admin tell them you would like to set up in the conf rooms and get them interested in this. Most of us are retired and all we do is go to appointments and back home. Here is a good way to spend some time after your appointment. Take an hour to work on a kit. Just some ideas but it got to start with us.
SgtRam
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#197
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

How is it more convenient to physically travel to a store than to have things delivered? Also, the LHS is even more expensive if you factor in gas, subway fare, whatever.
Prices a little higher? Usually they are exorbitant--that after some truly outrageous raises in price by DML and others.



Getting out of the house is a fact of life for social people. And attitudes like that are what is hurting LHS.
skyshark
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Getting out of the house is a fact of life for social people. And attitudes like that are what is hurting LHS.



I get out of the house enough, and I do not feel the need to subsidize a failing business model to feel sociable, especially to the benefit of unsavory folks like Alan from Red Caboose.
Modelling clubs are a far more efficient way to achieve the end you speak of.



I'm not trying to sound mean. But why are you even in this hobby. Folks like you are what I was talking of a few post above. And believe me you are not alone. All of us me included (there are areas I can improve on) need to get better. If we don't fix it, even if you get your kits and supplies on line that too will be gone.
SpaceXhydro
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:32 PM UTC
Where i live, near Croydon, south London, there used to be a shop called ModelZone, which at the time i rarely used to visit. When i started modelling i used to play warhammer 40k. So, some 3 and a half years ago i came to modelzone saw some of the model selection they had which really interested me in military modelling. However, i didn't buy any kits from the shop itself, But did come to buy some paints and glue. when i was looking for those supplies i didn't find them, but there was a stairway in the shop that leads to a lower floor, so i went down looking for the paints. As soon as i came down stairs i saw everything before me. it was like heaven. .i saw kits that i never even heard of, even companies i never heard of either.

For me i ow my interest to model making to that shop. however, I never actually bought much things from there. Most of the things i bough were from online websites because there was a wider variety. But also when i didn't have anything to build i would always order online. but when i come across the shop i would have already had something to build. so therefore i didn't go to it much.

sadly, of all the time the shop was around before i was modelling, a few months after i started military modelling the shop started to close dawn and by September 2013. I never really had much of a chance to buy things from there and i was a bit upset because it was the only hobby shop i knew about other than games workshop.

Now, modelzone moved to WHsmith but with far less variety, there was a section in a department store that but also with less things and there is games workshop, but that is only for science fiction, fantasy and wargames.
SDavies
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Where i live, near Croydon, south London, there used to be a shop called ModelZone, which at the time i rarely used to visit. When i started modelling i used to play warhammer 40k. So, some 3 and a half years ago i came to modelzone saw some of the model selection they had which really interested me in military modelling. However, i didn't buy any kits from the shop itself, But did come to buy some paints and glue. when i was looking for those supplies i didn't find them, but there was a stairway in the shop that leads to a lower floor, so i went down looking for the paints. As soon as i came down stairs i saw everything before me. it was like heaven. .i saw kits that i never even heard of, even companies i never heard of either.

For me i ow my interest to model making to that shop. however, I never actually bought much things from there. Most of the things i bough were from online websites because there was a wider variety. But also when i didn't have anything to build i would always order online. but when i come across the shop i would have already had something to build. so therefore i didn't go to it much.

sadly, of all the time the shop was around before i was modelling, a few months after i started military modelling the shop started to close dawn and by September 2013. I never really had much of a chance to buy things from there and i was a bit upset because it was the only hobby shop i knew about other than games workshop.

Now, modelzone moved to WHsmith but with far less variety, there was a section in a department store that but also with less things and there is games workshop, but that is only for science fiction, fantasy and wargames.



That's near to where I live !

I miss modelzone
thathaway3
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:40 PM UTC
Like many arguments there is truth on both sides here. I love going to my LHS, and I'm lucky that there are still several to which I can go. Three of them are within a 30 minute drive and there's a fourth if I want to drive an hour. I love being able to walk through them and look at all they have to offer. There's an excitement to seeing all the variety, and that certainly provides an incentive to participate in this great hobby that a computer screen can never do.

BUT, that said like may hobbyists I have specific interests in what I build. (This IS the "Armor"ama site is it not?) When I want to build something I almost always have a SPECIFIC kit in mind, and with it will almost ALWAYS have a list of A/M items that I'll want or need to go with it. It is not realistic to expect that a LHS will have on its shelves EXACTLY the arcane items I want. Most shops simply cannot maintain that kind of inventory because there are not enough customers within DRIVE IN range to support it.

To support carrying enough inventory to provide everything that anybody could want, why you'd have to be able to have all the customers in the WORLD support your shop, and that's just not possible unless you had some sort of way to give all the customers in the world access to your shop............

Truth be told while I LOVE my LHS what I have found over the years is that nine times out of ten what I wind up buying from them is "commodities" like glue, paint, scratch building material, and tools. The more specific items I want are almost always something that so few people would want that I have to get them online. And yes there is a real benefit to be able to get in my car and know that within 30 minutes I'm going to have exactly what I want in my hands, but if it's a KIT, I've come to understand that there's a good chance my LHS will NOT have what I've decided to build.

It's the difference between going into a store and browsing and buying somewhat on impulse (what I call "shopping") or walking in with a fixed list in hand and walking out, (what I call "buying"). The LHS and the OLS cater to two different needs, and probably always will. As long as there ARE any LHS left.

BTW, @Pat, what stores in Detroit did Al Slisinger own? I've lived here for going on 40 years and I'll bet I've been in his shops at one time or another.