Jim.
I also shopped at the Hobby Caboose. Another fine LHS. Tom McDonald was a close friend and Fellow Reservist.

Oh, I think you would and I'm sorely tempted, but then again you've had more than your fair share of attention in this thread and others, unfortunately for all the wrong reasons.

One man's sacred cow is another's fine steak dinner. Also, I will stress this once again, you can not say that a person's opinion is incorrect. An opinion is formed out of the facts available to the person and their background experiences, among others. An opinion can not be called untrue. It is not a piece of data. It is not a fact. It is my OPINION that some of of our politicians in government right now are just... Airhead, to put it nicely for the forum. Is this true? No. Is it false? No. It is my opinion that DML does not care for the modellers. Is it false? Possibly. Is it true? Maybe. It's neither true nor false. Are BnM hobby shops good for the hobby? In my opinion, yes. In your opinion, no. Is my opinion false? No. Is it true? Not necessarily. Is your opinion false? No. Is it true? Again, not necessarily. You CAN NOT call an opinion false. Is it NOT piece of data. Can opinions influence data. Oh yes. It's known as Confirmation Bias or Experimenter's Bias.

Also, "obviously do not hate the proposition of regulating what people [may] or [may] not say because you advocated that very proposition just now." Well then obviously you must then be telepathic. No. I do hate regulating what people can or can not talk about. I hold the freedoms outlined in the Constitution dearly and I try to interpret them when I need to as one would with the utmost attempt at being unbiased. I do love the freedom of speech and I would never attempt to undermine it. But, as with almost everything, there have to cases where exceptions are made. I feel as though, seeing as how this thread, and some others like it, just become something relating to something unsavory to mention on the forums. And like I said, my opinion, nor yours, wrong. And do me a favor. Do not twist my words. Do not talk for me. I can do my own talking without anyone injecting their own opinions, that are completely opposite mine, into my sentences.

Wait a minute,what do you mean that someone's opinions can't be untrue or wrong ? I can be of the opinion that that the moon is made of swiss cheese,or that the earth is flat,how are my opinions not wrong ? Opinions are your own thoughts,but they can be of the wrong or false opinion for sure.

Opinions are like a##holes..........everybody has one

Tom! Oh yes I remember him fondly. I think I use to hang out there a lot just to converse with him and that ended up with me getting back into military scale modeling for a few years after college. Is he still with us do you know?

Small world eh?

Cheers,
Jim

I loved the 80's. A group of our club members from Flint MI would travel down to Detroit some 60 miles away. Leave early in the morning have breakfast hit 3-4 shops on the westside of Detroit then lunch and hit the 3-4 more on the east side of Detroit.It would be a full day then home about 7pm. Now there is one shop on the east then one in Ypsilanti.Ah the old days were better.

.

Saurteig-
Why don't you have any photos of your work posted here?

Jim
Last Time I was in Tallahassee he was doing fine. We served in the same unit for years together.

You could be of the opinion that all those are true. I still wouldn't tell you that your OPINION was wrong. The opinions one may have may be factually wrong or right. Doesn't mean that I'll tell you that they are. Your opinion on whether the atomic bombs should've been dropped? They might or might not be the same as mine. Does that mean they are wrong? No. If you were to make no mention of "opinion" and simply state "the earth is flat and the moon is made of Swiss cheese," then yes, I'll tell you that you are wrong because, in that context, you are making a verifiable statement. If you were to say "it's my opinion that the earth is fact" I'd probably say something like "Ok, believe it if you wish" and then walk away knowing the truth of the matter. I argue palpable, verifiable statements. Not opinions. Take the 'opinion' out of the statement and I'll argue it.

The same endless and senseless arguing, again and again...
This is like complaining about the huge number of local grocery/clothes/bakery/etc. shops that have dissappeared in the last decades "victims" of big chains or brands, or even internet enterprises.
This is called change, and for good or bad it is unavoidable, we like it or not.
People tend to but where it is either trendier or easier, so the future does not look optimistic for BnM shops.
I for one, can not care less, but that's me.

Interesting discussion. Like many, I've watched LHS blink out one by one over the last several years. Locally, the first to go was the Hobbytown USA store in Franklin. Staffed by seemingly sincere and knowledgeable hobbyists, it nonetheless went by the wayside. Seems they were trying to adjust to the market by shifting a focus to fantasy/RPG and R/C inventory, but that wasn't enough to keep them alive.

The Hobbytown USA store in Murfreesboro succumbed several years later. Sad to see them go too. They had a good inventory of kits. That's where I'd picked up my Ersatz Panther and Late Panther G kits, as well as some plastic rod and other detailing items.

Downside was their tendency for the family members to shadow you like you were a serial shoplifter featured on "America's Most Wanted." I mean, the KGB / FSB could take lessons from them. That's something I didn't appreciate, to be honest.

Growing up in Pennsylvania, there was one store that stood head and shoulders above all others. I won't mention the name, but if you lived there, you'd know them for wrapping your purchases in butcher paper and for many years, the lack of an official receipt. Instead, if you got anything, it was a strip of adding machine paper.

That's where my father perched me on his shoulders to pick out a Matchbox car, where I made my first introduction to my now-voluminous Osprey Publishing collection, where I met and made friends with fellow modelers, where I purchased the ancient Humbrol paints which I still own and which are still good (!), where I purchased that George Bradford North African armor profile book for the then-princely sum (at least to me) of $11.00, etc.

That was something that cannot be replicated in an online experience and never the twain shall meet. Somewhat sadly too, they went belly-up and I say "somewhat" for a very good reason.

Despite the praise I would like to heap on being an outstanding example of what a LHS ought to be, there was also a darker side: The son would rip you off for a dime if he could and that's no exaggeration.

As someone wrote on the first page, "unpleasant enough to not care" and that seems to fit here as well.

I cannot even begin to guess how many times a friend and I would get home with our purchases, eagerly unwrap them like kids on Christmas Day, only to find that paints are missing, paintbrushes missing, glue missing, you name it. That guy ripped off so many kids and teens -- he'd steal from you six ways from Sunday, all the while, they watched YOU like a hawk.

But . . . they were the only game in town and if you were going to build models, it was them or nothing. So, what you'd do was try to get your purchase rung up by someone else who wouldn't rip you off.

By the time I was in my early 20s, I'd pretty much lost interest in the hobby and didn't patronize the store anymore. Then one day, I thought to stop in after a college class. Took a look at the Tamiya 7.5 cm Pak 40 kit and thought that'd be cool to build, so bought it and some paints. And dammit, wouldn't you know, that son of his ripped me off again! Charged me more than MSRP for the kit, etc.

Yeah, I know what you all might say, but again, they were the only game in town and secondly, sure, I was foolish for thinking that as I was older, he'd not pull this stuff again. Like John Belushi says in "Animal House, "You ****** up! You trusted us!"

So again, that was it for a while for that store and me... Years later, I'd stop in here and there for supplies -- paints, that sort of thing.

After relocating to Tennessee, I was back in town on business. Stayed with my mother at her house. Took the subway to her home, thought to stop in for some supplies, etc. for my then-Tunisian Tiger project (long since derailed by the release of the C-H Tunisian Tiger kit).

Had my briefcase with me. The way they were eyeballing me non-stop, you'd think I was stuffing it full of kits. Here I am in my 40s, and nothing has changed. Nothing.

I avoid the son and go to the old man to make my purchase: paints, mostly. I open my briefcase on the counter because my wallet is in there. The old man just about breaks his neck to crane over and try to peer into my briefcase. I silently turn it for him to inspect, meanwhile, I'm thinking, "You gotta be ****ing me..." Nothing in my briefcase but paperwork and my wallet.

I figured, hell with these people. Never went back. I'd be in town, but I had better things to do than be treated like a thief by them.

I saw online where they moved twice, settling on a suburban area 'cause there are a lot more "Mercedeses" [sic.] there. Didn't do 'em much good and one online model train message board talks about how the son ran 'em into the ground. Big surprise.

So yeah, some stores do that to themselves. Sad to say, but yeah. They thought their gravy train would never end, but then it did. I can't muster any sympathy for them, sorry.

I think the Internet took a lot of hobby shops by surprise I have 4 hobby shops at an easy drive from my place.
Why I went online at the start was because I started with resin garage kits and as you know they are not made by big company's and weren't in hobby shops. I saw stuff in Kit Builders magazine and then went searching for it on the web.
I think the down fall to some extent is the middleman/wholesalers.
I remember going into my hobbyshop ( at the start of my internet hobby shopping days) and saying , " can you get me this kit in please" and I got back.............not sure, then I would ask " how long do you think it might take" and I got back I have no idea. A couple of times I did put in a order and was told it would be three months but I agreed because I do like my local hobby shop. They had my ph number and details I would go in weekly looking and buying other stuff. I would say I was one of their best customers. After 3 months maybe 4 I would say " has my kit/ kits come in yet? Their reply was after me waiting for 3-4 months was ....... No decided no to get those kits ..........you have no idea how angry that made me feel. This became regular comments .............not sure........3 months ...............no we not getting them ........or worse, sorry we put them on the shelves and they must have all gone.
The other really funny one, that happen a couple of years back is " no we don't do laybys" it was a $1000 item so I went to a big chain toy store and put it on layby. I pay my laybys off in about 2 weeks, I had been going to that hobby store for 20yrs.
The other good one was, no we are not stocking Dragon kits or figures anymore due the issues with agent
I nearly fell over ........ That's nearly 70% of the 1/35 figure market nearly 90% at that store as they don't stock resin figures. That's when Alpine,Ebay and myself fell in love

These days I only buy what I need for a project (usually a dio)and inevitably pick it up off ebay as a bargain. Unless I can get it cheap enough I'll wait until I see one at the right price. I have very limited finances these days due to having to leave my job 11 years ago due to ill health which has deteriorated over time. Things like figures if they're a bargain on ebay I'll pick them up anyway even if they're not relevant to what I'm doing as I know they'll come in useful for kitbashing, hence I have a cupboard full of them. The LHS shops that used to be what I'd call local were either 10 or 15 miles away so neither of them were really local or convenient. Pricewise both were full price and with not a huge amount of choice. If I was in either Leicester or Nottingham where they were located I'd possibly pop in if I needed stuff like paints or plasticard but I'd never buy a kit from there as inevitably there was nothing that appealed to me and was generally of a price where I knew I could get it for half their price online.

These days I buy all my paints, brushes etc online as it's cheaper, fast delivery and I know that I can get whatever I want from somewhere. The beauty of shopping online is that I can compare prices from maybe a dozen different shops in half a dozen countries and always find one that's significantly cheaper which I'll go for. I've found that buying models from Germany is cheaper than buying them in the UK even with postage if you buy enough. Obviously the cheaper something is the more I can buy.
Whenever I'm looking at buying a vehicle kit I read all the online reviews which until the internet you were pretty much stuck with what was in Military Modelling and that was it (I'm in the UK)and then it would be just a few lines. Now I can read a few detailed reviews, look at various online vendors to price check and order it all in the same day. Some have complained about staff attitudes. I've encountered that more than once. People who seem to deliberately wind you up with their alla keefer attitude when you ask if they're getting such and such in or can you order such and such. It did nothing to make me want to go back in and help pay their wages. I've got to say I much prefer online shopping. Rare times when my order's been wrong people on the other end of an email have been really helpful which is great as you know that they care about the customer and vis a vis you use them again because their service is good.

Well, now feeling as though the arguing is becoming too stupid for me to want to engage in, I shall ignore it and move on. As a person who shops online and in the stores I hope that we can find a balance between the online and BnM so that we can have and use both. While both may have its positives and negatives, I don't feel as though either negatively impact the hobby. I will continue to support LHS' and shop online. Call me stupid. Call me a "contributing factor to the death of our hobby." Call me what you wish but you can go shop to your heart's content online and I will go to the store or online and buy what I want. Call my position absolutely wrong because I DO NOT care any longer. Nothing you can possibly say will change my position. Just like nothing we can say will change yours. Ignorance truly IS bliss.

(Bet I know who will speak just below this post? )

Bet your wrong

I agree Darren, and shopping, but sadly only every so often, at Salisbury Model Centre one is always greeted with warm enthusiasm, helpful service, and encouragement regardless of purchase. As you say he is a model builder as well as a seller. I've seen many stop to look in the shop window at the built model examples he displays, a reaction I doubt you'd get from pictures on the web. Despite his willingness to help, he's still experienced bad mannered and badly behaved customers in his shop.

I know the bricks and mortar modelling shop business isn't as profitable as it was a few years ago, reflecting the trend towards online shopping we see with all market sectors and there is nothing wrong in expressing ones sadness at a shop closing, as many including myself, have happy childhood memories of visiting and buying from these. Hopefully there will be a way for both options to remain available for those who don't wish to buy only online.

Sure, there are without doubt shop owners who are not very nice people, but that's the same in any walk of life, one only has to look at a certain individual on this thread to see evidence of that, but that doesn't mean we should group and judge all model shops that way and be glad of their passing. It is their livelyhood after all, with many making long term financial commitments in the way of leases etc. which may well leave them penniless if the business closes.

The passing of dedicated model shops may be inevitable but there's no reason to be glad about it.

you forgot the rest of the quote...

,no one thinks theirs stinks,, and I already know enough about yours...
-grin-

it's more or less true.

WTF?