Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Wow, another LHS closes down
wowcool
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Solomon Islands
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:59 PM UTC

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As much as I like the online stores, the more physical stores close, the less people will be exposed to the hobby.


How in the world is that true. There are some amazing videos on youtube that have been viewed by tens of thousands



I believe that for many, even today, their first exposure to the hobby is a physical store that sells kits.

In parts of Asia, Gundam model kits and other related products are sold in almost every toy store and they're often anybody's first ever model kit. I can't imagine the hobby to keep living on for generations without those boxes of mechs filling a shelf of your local toy stores.
SgtRam
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#197
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:04 PM UTC

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Need to get better? At what? It is certainly not my duty or the duty of others to raise other people's kids, or ingratiate ourselves to children. Quite frankly, I look dimly, in this day and age, on grown men who do gravitate towards kids not their own. Not because dark aspersions apply to each and every instance, but because in this day and age any right-thinking, sane person knows to keep his distance from other peoples children if for no other reason than people may have suspicions.



When were children ever brought up as part of this conversation??? What does this have to do with the discussion of opinions here?
easyco69
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:13 PM UTC
your lucky, nearest model shop is 30 min drive for me.
SgtRam
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#197
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:18 PM UTC

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your lucky, nearest model shop is 30 min drive for me.



That is next door compared to some people. You are lucky to have one that close. I have two in the city, one is about 20 minutes and the other is like 40 minutes. Now my father-in-law, who lives in a small town on the outside of the city has to drive about an hour to get to a hobby store. Which he does almost once a week.
easyco69
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:19 PM UTC

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There is no LHS where I am, the nearest is a hobby craft that is an overnight ferry trip away. There is a local toy shop that sells some airfix/humbrol stock and another that sells warhammer products. I have to mail order 99% of the things I need it is a bit frustrating when all I need is a pot of paint, I just wait and bulk buy when I need new paints etc.


You should ask the store owner to run a questionnaire to see if the people would buy other model products..list your products. Then again maybe the store owner needs to get a distributor that carries the new products. Some distributors want you to have so much in sales before they even talk to you.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:24 PM UTC
Folks,
For TopSmith's benefit-- within 25 miles of the Tacoma area there are at least three good shops-- two Hobbytown USA shops (Southcenter and Silverdale) and Skyway Models in Renton-- probably the best pure plastic LHS in the Pacific NW. There are two other shops in the Seattle/Everett area (Galaxy is one, the name of the other escapes me). None are right next door for sure, but a fun trip for a Saturday outing. Pat Stansell got it right above. I worked in one of those hobby shops that TopSmith was referring to-- Discount Models in Tacoma-- what got us in the end was the owner died, and the Estate Manger had no idea what he was doing. The fact is the LHS owner population is aging, and the inevitable will always occur eventually. At Discount we had a very successful business because we diversified our B&M presence with a lucrative on-line presence and also bought kit collections. A good model for any LHS in today's market. We also sold more than just plastic (with a little junk mixed in too). We can bemoan the loss of the LHS, but the fact is, if we don't support them with our $$$ they will go away-- but the same is true of the internet stores-- we just don't see it when they fold up. The best place to find a LHS is to socialize with the modelers in your local IPMS chapter. VR, Russ
bill_c
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:25 PM UTC
These discussions come up periodically, but they are mostly us regretting the passage of our younger selves.

Most of us rarely purchase anything from an LHS besides paint and other supplies. And as more than one LHS owner has told me, that's not enough to survive. One of the shops here in New Jersey sells drones and other RC airplanes and stuff. They are being slaughtered by the fact that everyone and their mothers are selling drones now.

We all purchase online because it's cheaper, the selection is usually better, and because after awhile it's a vicious circle.
badger66
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:44 PM UTC
I think there should be a mix of supporting LHS and online.
I am lucky to have two in my area The Hobby Center in Killeen has a decent selection of models and paints, also Kings in Austin which has enough to satisfy most hankerings.
When both shops cannot find what I am looking for then I go to online. Most times when you factor shipping the prices tend to even out.
erichvon
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:48 PM UTC
I don't think there's a single LHS at all in the county where I live. There was one in Leicester which is about 11 miles from me but I seldom went there. The stock wasn't that good, it was also very expensive. The only things I used to buy from there really were paints and things like blades and plasticard. These days I do all of my model shopping online.

Firstly there's the choice factor. If there's something I specifically want I can find it within minutes on the net from several sources and then compare prices to go for the best deal. At the same time (to justify P&P which is sometimes high) I'll add things like paints etc into the mix. If you factor in petrol and parking travelling to an LHS it works out more expensive than P&P as a rule. Secondly there's the time and convenience factor. Once you've clicked the buy button it's just a case of waiting for it which unless you're buying from abroad it'll take a couple of days whereas if you've not got a shop locally it can be a bind having to drive there, find a parking space only to get there and find that what you wanted isn't there. There's no point in ringing most places as they can't be bothered to check for you if it's in stock. At least on line it will tell you usually.

I would imagine it's a very difficult market to be in with carrying such a wide variety of stock which is dead money until someone wants that particular item. Variety now is the best I've ever known it. Say take the Tiger tank. There's maybe half a dozen manufacturers produce it. Then when you throw the different variants/options into the mix you've perhaps got 30 kits of the same thing. There's no way you could hold stock of all of those on space basis alone! Personally I don't miss having an LHS as buying online is cheaper and I'm spoilt for choice.
Panzerdan412
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 10:09 PM UTC
I think were lamenting the Local hobby shop as our Hub for interaction. While Its sad on a local scale. The Rise in the global modeling scene Is a good thing. Today projects that would have been seen at the LHS and maybe two shows a year is seen by global audience From start to finish if you choose. From LA to Argentina to Russia. It wasn't an option a year ago. I hate having to wait a week or two to get my projects. But I get everything in one package. Instead a few trips to the LHS.
SgtRam
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 10:11 PM UTC

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Can someone please explain to me how the LHS is a charity?



I think that is alot of the problem, is people think LHS ARE charities. They are not, they are a business, that needs to make money to survive. The key to LHS is service and convenience. If those are not provided, it does not make for a successful business.
IPLawyer
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 10:26 PM UTC

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5) Keep it small. Keep it cheap. Al always had a very modest space. His shops were in the greater Detroit area, so rent was relatively cheap. London, NYC, DC are always going to be tough for retail.



Actually, at least in the Northern Virginia suburbs of DC, we are pretty well-served with hobby shops. This is is probably due to the large number of people in the military and the defense industry here and the relatively high incomes in our area. We also have large and active IPMS chapter in Northern Virginia and I was blown away last April by the one-day show Northern Virginia IPMS puts on: The Model Classic. The size and quality of the show for a local show was incredibly impressive.

Also, someone who just got back into modelling last year after being away nearly 40 years and has spent those 40 years as an active board wargamer (still my primary hobby, but, fortunately, there is overlap with modelling), I've been reading the same type of discussion about the board wargaming hobby, i.e., the hobby is graying, the hobby in dying, no kids are interested in it, the local hobby/game stores are all closing, etc.

However, in both cases, I think the "death of the hobby talk" is both inaccurate and is often based on a view of a history of the hobby that is also inaccurate.

As someone getting back into modelling, I can not tell you how blown away I am by all the choices of models. The number of 1/35 WWI tank models alone kitted in the last 5 years is amazing to me. Never in my wildest dreams when I was modelling back in the 70s could I have conceived that there would be two competing highly detailed 1/35 models of the Whippet tank released during the same year. Yet, that actually happened last year. And the quality of details and molding in many (but not all) kits today is just amazing, particularly in comparison with the 60s and 70s.

Also, although I am not very familiar with the history of modelling magazines, but the number still published today seems like a pretty decent number.

But no, plastic models are not a mass-market item like they were in the 60s and 70s I don't see them in drug stores, toy stores like Toys "R" Us and variety stores like I used to do when I was a kid (although I do seem models in arts & crafts stores, a type of store which hardly existed back in the 60s and 70s). But, in the days of models being mass-market items, the number of subjects was really limited. You only saw the most popular subjects and usually only one variant from each company at each scale (see most of the 1/48 Monogram aircraft, for example). Also, until Tamiya began to enter the U.S. market, most armor models were incredibly inaccurate and the selection of subject matter available at any one time was really limited.

Also, during the mass-market era of plastic models back in the 60s, 70s and 80s how many kids actually considered themselves serious modelers? My guess is, very few. Most kids would go through a phase when they built a few models and give it up, similar to way there would be a phase when they played boardgames and gave it up.

My guess is that serious modelling has probably always been a niche hobby (just like board wargames).

I will also say that as a kid growing up in the suburbs of DC, I was lucky to have a nice local hobby shop. But even then, plastic models were just one side of one aisle. And I'm sure that fads, such as slot cars, were every bit as important to the hobby store's bottom line as drones are today.

I would also bet that kids in smaller towns were often not so lucky to have a decent hobby store. One of the things that I think is under-appreciated about the Internet is how it allows many people who do not live near big cities to be active members of a niche hobby by allowing them access to the same hobby resources that used to be available only to people living in or near big cities.

So, from someone getting back into the hobby in 2015, the scale modelling hobby looks pretty healthy to me.
Tojo72
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 10:32 PM UTC
When we reminisce about the LHS,I think this is what most of us have in mine.



I miss them too,but it's adapt or die,so I have no problem with the online shops.
mpeplinski
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 10:43 PM UTC
Rforand
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 11:15 PM UTC
If I were ceo of a store like hobby lobby I would be looking into carrying model and paint. They have tons of stuff for women but totally ignore the male side of what could be a potential to increase there business substationly.Lets hope they see the light soon since they are opening more locations weekly. Here inTampa Bay Ihave 2 in less than a hour drive.Would be nice to at least buy paint where Ican see the different shades. Just my 2 cents worth.
ceerosvk
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Posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 - 11:22 PM UTC
In my town, when i was a teenager - perhaps 10 years ago we had 3 quite big hobby stores where you always could choose between a nice selection and barely ever walked out without a kit. Nowadays only one of them is still alive, its way smaller and they have close to nothing, maybe 3-4 armored vehicles kits and several airplanes in the stock, they mostly work on backorders.

these days i get 95% of my purchases - kits, paints etc from ebay. It's sad, there is nothing like the feeling of walking up to a store jam packed with brand new kits. well, what can we do.
MikeyBugs95
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 12:45 AM UTC

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Yes indeedy! Glad someone sees what to me is very obvious.



In my opinion, I feel as though you are painting all the LHS' with the same broad brush. That all or most of the owners just rip off their customers and are inexcusably rude. Now I respect that that's your opinion and I can't change it and maybe that's what you've experienced and come to expect. But I feel that it isn't the whole truth. I'm not saying it's an outright lie, not at all, like I said it's your opinion and we are all entitled to our own, and this is mine. From the shops I have visited, I have had different experiences from what you describe. The owners have been generally cordial and helpful. One of shops I normally go to, the owner prices his kits generally around the lower sale price of the kit, I believe around 10-15% off the MSRP of the kit. He is pretty well in line with the low-median range eBay price. He practically offers a year-round sale. He's also pretty much overflowing with kits, books, trains, AM and R/C so I guess he could afford it. Another shop is also the same story but with less product crowding. He also offers pretty good prices. Another shop is also good but the kits are probably a bit overpriced. Other than that they aren't bad. There's two more here that I've visited but don't go too often. One just doesn't offer anything I'm interested in except PollyScale paints (and even then I've practically bought all I want) and one is for the same reason plus the distance is pretty far. So far I haven't really had a bad experience with a LHS owner. But those are my experiences. Other's mileage will vary.

But when it comes to the socialization part of it, the socializing in the club and the LHS are different. In the club, you generally see the same people at the same time every week or month or what have you. All the members are interested in the same kind of hobby: model building. When you visit the LHS, you don't know who you will see when you visit. There will be people who aren't into models, maybe they're into trains or R/C or something else. The talk is different. It isn't the same socialization that you get in the club atmosphere.

But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
seanmcandrews
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 01:11 AM UTC
"Can someone please explain to me how the LHS is a charity?"

I believe you're the only one who has referred to them as that, numerous times.

Sean
Tojo72
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 01:16 AM UTC

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"Can someone please explain to me how the LHS is a charity?"

I believe you're the only one who has referred to them as that, numerous times.

Sean



He's talking about paying the LHS inflated prices for models for the simple reason of keeping them in business instead of buying cheaper on the internet.
Totalize
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 02:01 AM UTC
Speaking of Online purchases. I am increasingly starting to look to Europe for anything but Model kits and even then some of their prices are not too shabby compared to U.S. or even Asian Prices.

I don't really buy any modelling supplies or kits from the U.S. anymore 1, because our dollar sucks and 2, the U.S. international shipping rates are completely outrageous. If I can't find it in Asia or Europe I will purchase from the States. For instance MicroMark and UMM are really good online Tools stores in the U.S. that will make me overlook the U.S. dollar and the shipping. These guys have found a niche product line that due to its size and selection isn't offered by anyone in Europe or Asia AFAIK.

As for Europe and Asia the shipping out of say Poland, Japan, China are reasonable. For instance I ordered some Paint Masks and a bottle of glue online from Poland Last Tuesday. The package showed up yesterday (4 business days to Canada) and the shipping was a grand total of Cdn$ 6.85. WOW! No way Western Europe or the U.S. could do something like that not even the so called Mighty Sprue Brothers.
TopSmith
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 04:08 AM UTC

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When we reminisce about the LHS,I think this is what most of us have in mine.



I miss them too,but it's adapt or die,so I have no problem with the online shops.




The problem...no young modelers. Yes your kid might be modeling but with no LHS they are not exposed and the skills they need at modeling are not the skills of electronic entertainment. I race slot cars and it is the same. A bunch of older guys who have the bucks and the transportation to get to the track. We like to tinker and work with our hands. We race door to door for our "online" experience while the kids go to the online gaming to play with others. I don't see it getting better and worry that our hobby is dying slowly. Maybe online model sales stats say different but I don't know of many kids who use paypal to pay for models and their supplies. Kids pay out of pocket at the LHS and they are fading away.
j76ljr
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 04:32 AM UTC

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Here in Tacoma we had 4 nice hobby shops. Life was good. The third one is now closing. The primary model shop closed first, the discount model shop closed and now the slot car/ RC car shop is closing. The only one left is the RC plane and small model section shop. The paint selection is now a small model master rack. We gained a HOBBY LOBBY but their selection of model kits is to small for me to be interested in stopping by.

I am being drug, kicking and screaming, into having to shop exclusively online. I loved to be able to stop by after work and brows and to feel the merchandise, to scrutinise the difference between close shades of paint. Now I get the privilege of buying paint by name and not by sight. So if you get some silly question about proper color or shade, be kind and forgiving of those that are now relegated to selecting the proper color sight unseen.



We should all get used to this situation, not that I like it ONE SINGLE BIT!!!

There hasn't been a Local Hobby Shop in my immediate area since about 1980. The closest is about 60 miles away, and they cater to the mini-drone crowd. I suspect that the existence of the old-style, friendly and personable LHS is disappearing because of the overwhelming presence of electronic "beep-beep, boop-boop games" and cell-phones, which are dominating the younger crop of what could otherwise have been a whole new generation of modellers. That and the growing popularity of mail-order houses that keep the prices of models down to "reasonable"-levels, which as you all know, are becoming more and more expensive by the minute.

Sites such as ebay and dedicated online hobby outlets sell models and supplies at a considerable discount off retail, which unfortunately, the traditional hobby shops can no longer compete with, or afford to do. Combined with a lack of established local customers, new customers who just aren't interested in our hobby...

Even long established modellers are feeling the pinch of rising costs within our crowd, and I see more and more modellers on this site saying that they will wait until prices come down before they splurge on the latest kit, myself included...

I can only see a very dim future for the old-style "Mom & Pop Hobby Shop"...