Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
Wow, another LHS closes down
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 06:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The other day I received a personal message expressing extreme disdain for you in particular, saying you need an enema.



Well, that's just his opinion.


Quoted Text

I put you, AlanMac and JZ on ignore, and you three do the same with me.



I'm not going to do that, but I think we all wonder why you didn't just go that route in the first place. If someone responds to you and you don't read it, you won't feel any compulsion to go on and on, now will you?

KL
Headhunter506
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 06:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I thought this sight was for modeling. How did all this transpire just from a comment about loosing some of the local hobby stores? If I read all the threads, I wouldn't have time to work on my model. Well, at least we do have Keith hopefully for a long time.



This is the cyber equivalent of a LHS. You come by, engage in some small talk (not all of which is hobby related. Talking about a singular subject all the time makes Jack a dull boy and reduces invites to social gatherings), pick up, learn and discuss techniques, check out new stuff. All done without leaving the comfy confines of your living room couch, man cave or garage, if you are so fortunate to have one. If you spent even half as much time in a B&M shop shooting the s**t about the hobby as you do online, you'd have even less time to work on your models. The only difference is you can't open up and paw the merchandise. If you got a gripe about how threads seem to get derailed, that's the way it is in real life. Almost any conversation can and will digress at one point. Eventually, the discussion gets back on track and picks up where it left off. Or not, depending on how interesting the topic really was to begin with. BTW, it's "site".
Headhunter506
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The other day I received a personal message expressing extreme disdain for you in particular, saying you need an enema.



Spanky, use enema in a sentence.

"With friends like you, who needs enemas?" Yup. Isthmus be my lucky day.
zedhol
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:54 AM UTC
It is a little sad how some (very few) people here seem to want to disparage Hobby Shops as being a "failing business model" such that they should all close down as they no longer serve a purpose. Being someone who works in a hobby store I do find the vitriol poured in our direction a little disturbing. We try very hard in our store providing services beyond just sales, that you cannot get over the internet, like fixing modelers mistakes, casting lost parts, opening up kits so people can see exactly what they are getting, matching colours, and, most important of all, selling things to customers who don't have the internet. Believe it or not, there are still people out there without access to Sprue Brothers, Hobbylink et al. Furthermore, there are a large number of people who do have access but are too traditional or nervous to not buy on line.

Removed by original poster on 02/05/16 - 04:35:44 (GMT).
Headhunter506
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 09:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It is a little sad how some (very few) people here seem to want to disparage Hobby Shops as being a "failing business model" such that they should all close down as they no longer serve a purpose. Being someone who works in a hobby store I do find the vitriol poured in our direction a little disturbing. We try very hard in our store providing services beyond just sales, that you cannot get over the internet, like fixing modelers mistakes, casting lost parts, opening up kits so people can see exactly what they are getting, matching colours, and, most important of all, selling things to customers who don't have the internet. Believe it or not, there are still people out there without access to Sprue Brothers, Hobbylink et al. Furthermore, there are a large number of people who do have access but are too traditional or nervous to not buy on line.




Nobody is wishing the demise of any business. For every hobby shop mentioned that offers a warm, fuzzy experience, as if you walked into Floyd's Barber Shop or Sam Drucker's General Store in Hooterville, there are ten that make you feel like you're about to do a perp walk into Central Booking. It's great that there are some places which provide a customer-friendly atmosphere. But, the majority are sterile retail establishments staffed usually by only the grouchy owner who couldn't give a rat's ass about engaging in some idle non-revenue generating chit-chat. He's busy keeping his eyeballs and attention focused on making sure that the guy milling around the paint rack isn't attempting to get a five finger discount. Most aren't idyllic locales worthy of a Norman Rockwell painting where a like-minded band of brothers sit around the electric heater in the back room exchanging paint mix ratios.

If one has a cell phone, tablet or an iPad-like device, one has access to the internet.

Your shop is an exception to the prevailing store model. The one important thing that nearly all B&M shops don't, or can't, offer the potential customer is competitive prices. Maybe the price isn't a primary concern to some; but, it is to a lot of others who want to get the most out of their limited recreational dollars. My loyalty to any business is based on the bottom line of getting what I want at what I consider a reasonable price, not to keep the place open by overpaying for something which can be gotten cheaper online.

landshark4
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:42 AM UTC
Yep, that's the one thing about LHS I hate and probably drives away potential customers: The over abundance of signs warning of dire consequences for shoplifters, parents who don't keep their kids on a leash and the overly paranoid owners. Those shops deserve to go out of business and I have no sympathy for them.
MikeyBugs95
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 01:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This is the cyber equivalent of a LHS. You come by, engage in some small talk (not all of which is hobby related. Talking about a singular subject all the time makes Jack a dull boy and reduces invites to social gatherings), pick up, learn and discuss techniques, check out new stuff. All done without leaving the comfy confines of your living room couch, man cave or garage, if you are so fortunate to have one. If you spent even half as much time in a B&M shop shooting the s**t about the hobby as you do online, you'd have even less time to work on your models. The only difference is you can't open up and paw the merchandise. If you got a gripe about how threads seem to get derailed, that's the way it is in real life. Almost any conversation can and will digress at one point. Eventually, the discussion gets back on track and picks up where it left off. Or not, depending on how interesting the topic really was to begin with. BTW, it's "site".



Yeah but in reality when people leave the store the conversation tends to end and people can then come back renewed with clearer thinking. Online, things DON'T just disappear. I think this is what some people are forgetting. What ever you do online stays online forever. There for the world to see at anytime.
jimbrae
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 02:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It is a little sad how some (very few) people here seem to want to disparage Hobby Shops as being a "failing business model" such that they should all close down as they no longer serve a purpose. Being someone who works in a hobby store I do find the vitriol poured in our direction a little disturbing. We try very hard in our store providing services beyond just sales, that you cannot get over the internet, like fixing modelers mistakes, casting lost parts, opening up kits so people can see exactly what they are getting, matching colours, and, most important of all, selling things to customers who don't have the internet. Believe it or not, there are still people out there without access to Sprue Brothers, Hobbylink et al. Furthermore, there are a large number of people who do have access but are too traditional or nervous to not buy on line.



Absolutely... It's worth while pausing for a second and considering that not everyone has Access to or confidence in buying on-line.
jimbrae
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 03:18 PM UTC
Oh and another thing in favor of LHS'... The one here, although it's primarily games and figures (with a huge amount of paints, brushes and ítems such as terrain materials) can get me stuff in a few days - none of this waiting for back-orders and everything is discounted. Now, with the exception of 1/56th scale armor (trust me, it's VERY good indeed ) I'm mainly working on 28mm historical figures these days and as an added bonus, I can go in and paint as often as I want. That means no distractions which I have at home such as using the 'puter or watching TV or SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED telling me to play with the washing machine or wash-up. An impressive little refuge...Long live the LHS!!!!
Smokeyr67
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 05:34 PM UTC
I honestly think that the LHS IS a failing business model.

I can only see b and m shops surviving by;

(a) Diversification - i.e. start carrying a few PC/Console games to get the kids in.
(b) Have a competent virtual presence.

Now I accept that buying in store will be more expensive than online, and some will take advantage of that by inspecting in store and then purchasing via the net, but at least they will be purchasing from you:)

Physical stores could also reduce their size by only displaying one of each kit, having a small amount out the back for in store sales, and having the bulk of their inventory stored off site in a lower rental location.

The worlds changed, and as much as I love going into a hobby shop and fondling the merchandise, the majority of younger people these days are happy to read a couple of reviews and then purchase online. Sad but true.
jimbrae
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 05:46 PM UTC
@Shane, I take your point, but this was also said of the booksellers a few years ago when the 'monsters' such as Amazon launched. There are still a lot of bookstores, but they have been forced to change their way of doing business. More customer sevice, and more with on-line ordering. The 'LHS' which I mentioned here, wouldn't survive on local sales for 10 minutes without a vibrant on-line sales strategy - probably 99% of their business.....
Smokeyr67
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 05:55 PM UTC
Unfortunately Jim, not a lot of Hobby Shops in my area have really taken to the internet, their presence is pitiful, most barely detail their address and opening hours. We have 1 large shop (overpriced - WAAAY overpriced) and then we have toy stores that stock hobby goods.

Luckily we have some great shops in other parts of the country that are great to deal with, so most of my hobby dollars go to them.
SEDimmick
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 06:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Absolutely... It's worth while pausing for a second and considering that not everyone has Access to or confidence in buying on-line.



FFS...Online ordering has been de rigueur since the early 2000's....In 16+ years of ordering kits online from various sites, I never had a problem with getting my kits, outside of a few well known examples.

Given what is happening to LHS, online will be the ONLY source for kits.

Retail is changing significantly, not just hobby shops..the only stores that can afford to pay high rentals are high markup items (clothes stores which seem to make up 75% of malls these days) or big box stories that offer a wide range of items.

Back in the 1990s Computer Shows (think model shows with computer parts/software) where a big thing...at the end of the 1990's they where deader then a doornail because everyone switched over to getting parts online.

Personally, I do 98% of my shopping online and from overseas. I get the latest releases as soon as they come out, often at cheaper prices then online stores in the US can offer. Often I can't get the stuff any other way to start with.

I really don't miss the LHS to be honest with you. Its far easier just to sit down and order stuff and have it show up 2-3 days to 2-3 weeks later.
ninjrk
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 06:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It is a little sad how some (very few) people here seem to want to disparage Hobby Shops as being a "failing business model" such that they should all close down as they no longer serve a purpose. Being someone who works in a hobby store I do find the vitriol poured in our direction a little disturbing. We try very hard in our store providing services beyond just sales, that you cannot get over the internet, like fixing modelers mistakes, casting lost parts, opening up kits so people can see exactly what they are getting, matching colours, and, most important of all, selling things to customers who don't have the internet. Believe it or not, there are still people out there without access to Sprue Brothers, Hobbylink et al. Furthermore, there are a large number of people who do have access but are too traditional or nervous to not buy on line.




Nobody is wishing the demise of any business. For every hobby shop mentioned that offers a warm, fuzzy experience, as if you walked into Floyd's Barber Shop or Sam Drucker's General Store in Hooterville, there are ten that make you feel like you're about to do a perp walk into Central Booking. It's great that there are some places which provide a customer-friendly atmosphere. But, the majority are sterile retail establishments staffed usually by only the grouchy owner who couldn't give a rat's ass about engaging in some idle non-revenue generating chit-chat. He's busy keeping his eyeballs and attention focused on making sure that the guy milling around the paint rack isn't attempting to get a five finger discount. Most aren't idyllic locales worthy of a Norman Rockwell painting where a like-minded band of brothers sit around the electric heater in the back room exchanging paint mix ratios.

If one has a cell phone, tablet or an iPad-like device, one has access to the internet.

Your shop is an exception to the prevailing store model. The one important thing that nearly all B&M shops don't, or can't, offer the potential customer is competitive prices. Maybe the price isn't a primary concern to some; but, it is to a lot of others who want to get the most out of their limited recreational dollars. My loyalty to any business is based on the bottom line of getting what I want at what I consider a reasonable price, not to keep the place open by overpaying for something which can be gotten cheaper online.




This, a thousand times this. I go to my LHS every week (Spare Time Shop in Marlborough) because it offers a positive experience. Friendly, knowledgeable staff who aren't afraid to take 20 minutes to explain the pros and cons of various types of paint for brushing on their 10 year olds' first car model. The ability to browse, pop open boxes to look at kit contents, model club discounts, sales, and what have you. And go figure, they are doing OK and the welcoming environment means that I linger about and see stuff I hadn't thought of and end up spending more money than I planned! Plus I can order something there and have it delivered to them in a comparable time that it would take to get to my door if I shopped the internet. That business model works. The borderline hostile one where asking a question is made to feel like an imposition and prices 25% higher than Spruebrothers with shipping means I walk out and spend no money. Many shops I walk into are like that and they fail. Go figure.

Oh and someone in this thread is a big poopy head or something, I guess. Trying to get into the spirit of the thread!
hugohuertas
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Absolutely... It's worth while pausing for a second and considering that not everyone has Access to or confidence in buying on-line.



FFS...Online ordering has been de rigueur since the early 2000's....In 16+ years of ordering kits online from various sites, I never had a problem with getting my kits, outside of a few well known examples.

Given what is happening to LHS, online will be the ONLY source for kits.

Retail is changing significantly, not just hobby shops..the only stores that can afford to pay high rentals are high markup items (clothes stores which seem to make up 75% of malls these days) or big box stories that offer a wide range of items.

Back in the 1990s Computer Shows (think model shows with computer parts/software) where a big thing...at the end of the 1990's they where deader then a doornail because everyone switched over to getting parts online.

Personally, I do 98% of my shopping online and from overseas. I get the latest releases as soon as they come out, often at cheaper prices then online stores in the US can offer. Often I can't get the stuff any other way to start with.

I really don't miss the LHS to be honest with you. Its far easier just to sit down and order stuff and have it show up 2-3 days to 2-3 weeks later.




Can't agree more with you.
Simple, plain explanation.
There are some people ready to spend more money in exchange of being warmly received by a retailer, and there are a lot of people who don't care not need that kind of interacción.
The trend in the XXI century seems to be the latter, that's it.
KenLawrence
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Posted: Friday, February 05, 2016 - 09:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yep, that's the one thing about LHS I hate and probably drives away potential customers: The over abundance of signs warning of dire consequences for shoplifters, parents who don't keep their kids on a leash and the overly paranoid owners. Those shops deserve to go out of business and I have no sympathy for them.



You might feel differently after being stolen from 25+ times and uncontrolled kids run screaming through store breaking your goods!

Not Ken Lawrence
Headhunter506
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Posted: Friday, February 05, 2016 - 10:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Yep, that's the one thing about LHS I hate and probably drives away potential customers: The over abundance of signs warning of dire consequences for shoplifters, parents who don't keep their kids on a leash and the overly paranoid owners. Those shops deserve to go out of business and I have no sympathy for them.



You might feel differently after being stolen from 25+ times and uncontrolled kids run screaming through store breaking your goods!

Not Ken Lawrence



In prehistoric times (pre mid 1980s, at least) stores had a simple, yet very effective, policy which was posted and always enforced:

"If you break it, you bought it. No exceptions."

I remember those signs in stores ranging from furniture stores to stationery shops when I was a kid. Plus, our parents taught us not to touch anything that didn't belong to us or weren't going to buy. Parents made damn sure that their house apes were under control at all times.
jimbrae
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Posted: Friday, February 05, 2016 - 10:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

In either that instance or the LHS, I know I am being patronized, paying a premium for people to be nice to me. That's not my style.



That seems to be a somewhat unimaginable scenario? Maybe you should pay for someone being nice to you?

Alternatively.....
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Online, things DON'T just disappear. I think this is what some people are forgetting. What ever you do online stays online forever. There for the world to see at anytime.



Except of course that REALLY useful article showing exactly how to solve a problem on an upcoming build - those suckers seem to vanish into the digital ether as fast as I can find 'em!
MikeyBugs95
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Posted: Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Online, things DON'T just disappear. I think this is what some people are forgetting. What ever you do online stays online forever. There for the world to see at anytime.



Except of course that REALLY useful article showing exactly how to solve a problem on an upcoming build - those suckers seem to vanish into the digital ether as fast as I can find 'em!



Oh yeah well, the really useful and helpful stuff just seem to disappear but the other stuff just sticks around for a long, long time.
SEDimmick
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 06:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Can't agree more with you.
Simple, plain explanation.
There are some people ready to spend more money in exchange of being warmly received by a retailer, and there are a lot of people who don't care not need that kind of interacción.
The trend in the XXI century seems to be the latter, that's it.



My wife gives me a hard time about this...personally I rather get something done and over with then deal with someone and depend on them to get it done. I can do 99% of my banking online or through an ATM machine or go through a self check out line a lot quicker then waiting for a Teller or cashier (which often have the same personality as these inanimate devices) to process it for me.

There are exceptions to this, but for the most part I feel this way.
lightningdon
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 10:10 PM UTC
I sure hate the demise of the LHSs. Friend owned one near my home. Problem was that the manufacturers were requiring larger and larger purchases to continue supplying him. I am sure that drives most of the small HS out of business.

I really have no problem buying kits online, but paints....I need to be able to look and be able to buy on a moment's notice. To pay shipping of a few $ on a kit or 2 at $50 or so each isn't hard to take, but if I need a bottle of paint and have to order online and pay shipping, and wait several days, it is frustrating and really depletes my motivation.
TopSmith
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 07:43 AM UTC
I'm sorry, I am probably the only one left who appreciates good customer service. You want my business, then please be helpful, polite and timely for a reasonable rate and I will be a lifetime customer. Think I'm wrong then you probably appreciate a phone tree and prefer not to have to talk to a real person. I personally hate a phone tree and find that a strong reason to look for alternative sources. My take on a phone tree is that I am not important enough to talk to so here, talk to the machine. I guess that is one of the reasons my LHS was where I shopped.