Our local store on the east side of Madison, WI just announced it's closing and we're going through the awkward sale process, and that lead me to think a lot about this issue.

I bought a lot of paint, sanders and other consumables at this store, and even met there once a month with the armor modelers group. I almost never bought kits there because they were about twice what I could get them for. I have had uncomfortable run-ins with the owner, but that could have been just me. He had some nice and helpful employees, so I have no issue there.

As to pricing, for an example Dragon's 6730 Tiger I kit was marked at $94 dollars in this store. I got it directly from Dragon shipped immediately on release to my house for $80 shipped, which in my opinion is a premium I pay because I want the kits right away for YouTube review purposes. Normally on Scalehobbyist it runs for somewhere in the mid to high 60's right away. The kit price increase in the industry has been unreal lately, but the established "reasonable" price for a new Dragon kit at least to me is $65. So imagine my surprise when I felt like a dork for paying $80 to get it early, seeing it for $94.

A nice man from my armor group was buying it one day and I asked him "You're not actually paying $100 for that kit are you?" to which he replied, "You have to support the store, I buy a kit from them every few months". So the same thing some people here have been saying. I was so confused.

I am new to modeling, started in January of 2014 for real. I looked at ebay a lot just to feel out prices and because I figured I'd start by getting some old kits that way. Eventually I branched out to certain larger online retailers, but basically I learned what I know about kit prices and "deals" from ebay and a few sites. I watch the going rates of manufacturers and keep an eye on trends. These are the business models that work. Mega stores like Scalehobbyist and tiny ebay sellers. I use a lot of this knowledge in my suggestions to subscribers on YouTube and in my text reviews here. In a recent Sturmpanzer IV review I pointed out that you could get the exact same plastic for $25 on ebay that Dragon want $80 for and your LHS will probably charge even more for.

I wanted to be that guy that defended the small business but I can't. It's an outdated business model and that's why they're going away. It's an organic thing, and it honestly makes sense. Companies or manufacturers never wanted to need middle men to sell their goods, it was a necessity. The ability to distribute was more complicated before the internet, and I think some aren't as willing to see the writing on the wall. Someone is always going to be willing to undersell you to get sales on his ebay store or website. Not to mention the thrift store/estate sale side of places like ebay or even craigslist. An ebay scavenger hunt is a part of my nightly ritual, and I find a lot of great deals. But I do understand not everyone is as internet savy as the next guy.

I will say that having to build up an order so to speak by waiting to buy paint and glue until the shipping makes sense is annoying. I always loved stopping in for paint on my way home from work to just do the stare at the armor kits, and then shake my head at how over priced they were and wondering as I got in my car how they stayed in business. And I even still have the choice to go to the west side Madison store, but that's clearly on life support as well. Slightly better prices, but why go to a store that may have a deal, when a virtual world full of infinite deals is on my ipad in my bed?

The stores here only carry Tamiya paint anyway, which yes I use but that's probably because it was there. And they rarely even had what I needed, whereas scalehobbyist always has tons of whatever paint I need. So bring on my virtual hobby store.

I think some guys see the death of their old connection to this world somehow the death of their hobby, or the hobby itself is dying. That couldn't be further from the truth. With YouTube, ebay, Armorama, big commercial sites and all of these new companies, THIS is the halcyon time for scale modeling. I think some people just don't know how to handle the violent adjustment, And I get it. But so you know, if you look enough you can find most Dragon stuff for around $35. So maybe the problem wasn't even shop mark-up, but industry price hikes which cause the stores to adjust and they couldn't make a profit.

I chalked up the demise of the LHS to supply and demand and technology. Example: I'm having to replace the engine in my 2002 Crown Victoria. With the help and availability of the internet, I found a replacement, remanufactured, engine company in Virginia that backs up their product with a 5 year, unlimited mileage, warranty...and free shipping to the shop of my choice, with the seal kit for taking off the parts from the other engine, then free shipping of my core engine back to Virginia. Point being: without the internet, I would have never found the best deal, or the best shop, that could give me the biggest bang for the buck.

On to modeling. I use the same premise when it comes to purchasing models as I've done with purchasing my engine for the Crown Vic. The internet, for good or bad, gave me limitless possibilities with my purchasing power, and provided me choices beyond any imagination. Just going back 20 years I would never had this possibility that technology had provided recently. I certainly exploit this technology today to my benefit.

Point: brick and mortar businesses may be nice...and shopping locally can be very nostalgic, but in the big scheme of things why pay $4000 for an engine locally when I found one on the internet for $2500 and free shipping to and from Virginia, with the guarantees/warranties previously mentioned?

Same goes for modeling I'm afraid. Why spend $40 locally when the internet will get me the same kit for $25 and free shipping. No driving, no crowds, no taxes, no shipping cost...you catch my drift.

Do I visit LHS? Yes I do. I still like the feel it gives me just as it did when I was a kid...when this thing called the internet didn't exist. Do I purchase a kit and/or supplies here and there? Yes I do. Its called a "choice", a preference if you will, or simply a Constitutional right to make up my mind about purchasing a product without being chastised for not supporting one particular group/business or another. The world is what it is, the technology is what it is. Our core values will lead to the choices we make, not peer pressure.

Same goes for the LHS. If they survive, then more power to them...they obviously figured out how. And I will continue both my purchasing from them and from the internet.

Both two last comments have summarized clearly the core of this situation.

Some people feel it difficult to adapt to changes, but this is a time of dramatic changes. no matter if we like them or not, change is happening and we should quickly adapt to it instead of keep trying to stop the unavoidable...
Fighting against windmills like Don Quijote is not only useless, but also too expensive.

In my country, the Czech Republic, there are still many LHSs around. They had to adapt to the changing market and they all have a dedicated webstore. The pices have gone through the roof lately, mainly because we had to weaken our currency for export purposes. Still, getting kits from China is not significantly cheaper and other EU nations are definitely more expensive. Yet the market is definitely oversaturated and I noticed that even the webstores started to fail.
As some members have noted, the world of business is cold and cruel, survival is difficult and one must be willing to make dynamic changes.
Having been once to the USA, I am quite surprised you still have LHSs over there. The distances are so large, it seems quite a hurdle to drive 30 minutes or even more just to buy some paint. Don't get me wrong, I also have some friendly chit-chat with the store owners, but for me this would not be enough of a motivation to spend my money or time for.

Really? I have them in stock in our store (C channel brass strips)..

Our Meng and Takom kits are the same price as Squadron Signal. Yes indeed, compare their new low prices, they are less than Sprue Brothers and so are ours.

So are many other brands we stock.

Fruil is overpriced and not for the average modeler.

Keith

Glad to know I have 2 blue moon LHS'. They both carry Fruils AND Voyager AND Eduard. One carries Gold Medal Models, Tom's Modelworks, Aires, Quickboost, Warriors, Blackdog, Alpine, Aber, Lionroar, Hasegawa PE, Trumpeter PE, Tamiya PE, Verlinden and probably even more companies I can't remember the names of. Paint wise he carries a healthy stock of Humbrol, PollyScale, Tamiya, Testors, Model Master (both acrylic and enamel) some more including one of those fantasy brands. He carries AK and Mig pigments and paints as well. The other guy carries good stock of Vallejo (Model Color, Air and Panzer Aces), Humbrol, Tamiya and Model Master/Testors. Lots of resin conversions and PE along with a healthy stock of decals. Both carry a large selection of books and magazines. Yep, glad to know I have not 1 but 2 blue moon LHS'.

Yep. Me again. I'm glad to know that you're happy I'm here. It's much appreciated.

Oh, I need to address a small piece of your post concerning your assertions of "untenable price discrepancies." First, I never mentioned price. And the poster above mine said that his prices are about the same as what you'd find on Squadron and less than Sprue Brothers.

And no, of course the BnM shops have less selection. They have to pay their overhead which means they can not afford a large storage space. An online store doesn't necessarily need to pay overhead which means they can afford a larger selection. And yes, because they pay little to no overhead, online stores can afford to charge less. Now that begs your usual question, why do I choose to spend more at an actual store? Because I want to. That's it. I like to hold products in my hand before I buy them. I prefer to see what comes with the product, the size of the box/product and have questions answered that would have taken a while to be answered or otherwise not have been answered at all had I asked online. I need to know what I'm looking at before I decide. I've been disappointed before when buying online. One example that comes to mind is when I bought a bottle of Vallejo Model Air Olive Drab. Instead of "Marron Oliva" (the OD I prefer) I bought "Braunviolett." Which was still labeled as Olive Drab... On the online ad, the "Braunviolett" was labeled as simply Olive Drab. Yes, I read reviews on kits and on what resin and photoetch sets there are. I also the exposure that I get to the kits that I might pass on otherwise. I like the thrill of the find. Digging through stacks of kits unsure of what I might find. Will it be an older kit or maybe a good kit at a bargain price? I don't know. There also is an assurance factor. I know that I will get this product home safe with no more damage than the way I bought it, if it had any damage at all. When buying online, unless buying from an online retailer, how do you know that the product you bought will get to your door safe? Or even get there at all? I've had packages lost or stolen before. I had spent about $45 or so on a D-Corporation M4A3E8 (rebox of the Tasca Korean kit) and I never received it. I don't know if it wasn't shipped, lost in transit or stolen. If I had bought that kit in a store personally, it's almost guaranteed that I would have had it in hand when I get home unless I get into an accident. Resin kits can sometimes be fragile and occasionally come in less-than-optimal packaging. If it was shipped, it might get to you broken. Not so if you bought it in a store where it would be no more damaged than how you got it when you got home. Does this mean I refuse to buy online as much as you refuse to buy in stores? No. Not at all. I've bought many products online and I will continue to do so. You and I said it ourselves, BnM stores have limited stock and may not be able to order in what you want. I will still check a local store as well but I am more than open to buying online. Especially books. I can't really find some books in stores (and the one store where I might find it is so overpriced I agree with you on this front). So I more often than not buy books online. Plus it's incredibly cheaper... I got Samuel Eliot Morrison's The Two Ocean War for a very low price on Amazon. Like I said, I have no qualms about online shopping. But I will still go to the store. In fact I have to go tomorrow to try to find a book that I need for a German History paper. When you're on a deadline, BnM stores offer great convenience.

it isn't the destination but the journey. I have dealt my local shop owner since I moved into my current home in 1978. We are both aware that one day that will end. We have already seen the passing of mom and pop operations ( Bookstores, 5 & 10's, etc.). Changes due to on line shopping
will continue, but we have the choice as to when we embrace it.I prefer to engage my local shop until the last moment. We do not have to dwell in the past but we should at least honor it.

However, what you fail to understand is that people find it annoying, tiresome, and ridiculous that you keep writing the same criticisms and expressions of disbelief (often to the same people) over and over again. Do you think that on, say, the eleventh repetition, a great knot of people will suddenly think, "Ah, NOW I see it! He was right all along!"

KL

Damn, I wish some of my build log threads generated this sort of interest and passion !

Interesting how you believe I stated and/or attempted to refute a rule. I believe I did no such thing. Anyone else want to check that claim? Did I state any sort of rule and then uphold or refute said rule? Did I use an exception to prove or refute any rule?

Now from where did you get the notion that my person was blackened? From what I notice this has no effect on the reputation of my person.

Unfortunately, there is a highly palpable predilection amongst some here to dismiss an individual's sentiment as a fallacy. I am of the notion that this instead sullies the person's character.

But what can I say, you are the master of baiting. You laid it and I bit. Your interesting comprehension of rather archaic English is spectacular. Truly a wonder to observe.




In many ways, I'm pleased that mine don't. While I would overjoyed if one of my Blogs generated 10 pages of comments, I would prefer they be mostly constructive or at least complementary or helpful. This is really what the hobby is about: being friendly, courteous and helpful to one another.

Edit: changed construction to constructive.

This really boils down to a competition of who sell the cheapest gets your business. Smart, I am in it for me. Don't care about the rest of you fools....This is the exact attitude many of the corporate folks have. That means I will do business where my labor cost is cheapest, Smart, I am in it for me.... The problem happens when it is your shop they close down because they found a lower wage area overseas. Don't care about those fools who don't want to work for less money. I don't like that attitude because it will eventually cycle around and bite me.

I realize it is easier to shop online. I also realize that there are some LHS's that are run poorly and will probably fail because of that. But I buy smaller items more often than large items and I can't do that economically online. Oh I need a bottle of paint OK that's $4 and $5 shipping for $9. Sure I saved on those three kits I bought this year however shipping on 3 different accessories from 3 different companies ate any savings.

I just ordered some paint and thinner for a kit and the cost plus shipping was $47 from Hobbylinc. From the LHS it would have been about $18 for the colors I wanted. If I had to buy the set of colors like I had to from Hobbylinc, it would have been $38 from the LHS. The LHS is now closed so I pay more and wait days at best.

David, you seem a tad irked... Something bothering you tonight? Chip on your shoulder?

On a nice note, I'm glad you think that I chime. Chimes are very nice decorations that do produce soothing sounds. In fact you might be able to make use out of one to brush that chip off your shoulder.

Now I believe that I have a solid grasp of the English language. Do I understand how language "works" explicitly and in great detail? Well let's ponder the multiple meanings of that question. Do I have an understanding of grammar, semantics, syntax and context? Well I am typing this response and making it understandable for all to read, am I not? Do I understand the very basis of all language? Where it develops in the brain and how we form the very thoughts that produce the sounds that come from our mouths (or other parts of our body)? Probably not. I'm not a linguistics expert or a psychologist. Though from what I've read it appears as though you are missing quite a bit of punctuation and your grammar could also use a tad bit of work as well.

Now then.
Ah... Implicitly vs Explicitly. Indirect vs direct. Well from what I gather you neither explicitly mentioned "rules" or "exceptions" nor implied such until you replied to my response listing what the two stores near my location carry.

And no, that comparison is not the same... For starters that is a pretty asinine counter argument. My response was in direct response to yours as an example of a well stock hobby store and that not all are low stock. Like I said, you made no explicit or implicit mentions that LHS' are low-stock as a rule.

Don't we all!

The reason I posted my input was purely because you have touted on another thread on this site your sheer delight (or so it appears) to the demise and closing of any and all brick and mortar hobby stores.

I have simply said more than once, you know nothing about the inside workings of a retail hobby shop, pure and simple and it glaringly shows to all and sundry here.

You are the very person who spouted off about ordering online prices versus B&M stores and my input above was merely to point out and show that it isn't always the case, I used just two brands as my example, if you look carefully I also stated

Quoted Text

---

So are many other brands we stock

---

that does include AFV Club, DML, Live Resin, Verlinden, Eduard and more!

Take a 'Padres pause' before jumping in with two feet and shooting from the hip perhaps.
And please stop tarring ALL hobby shops with the same brush.

Brick and mortar shops have to stock more than just what the model world is looking for and sense what the community around them is asking for and cater to them as well.

Radio Control items here far outweigh any other hobby segment when it comes to sales and thus adjustments on floor space and holding stock will ebb and flow as the needs indicate, require and change.

On the model paint front, I also have Mig, Vallejo, AK. all Testors brands, Hataka and Gunze items on the shelf.

Again, remember, you as an individual can order just ONE bottle of paint (If you wish) some of our distributors require we order a box of 6 at a time. That means a very slow selling color may sit on the shelf for an extended length of time!
Plus require a minimum order dollar amount to reach the free shipping level..

We hosted our local AMPS model Club on Wednesday night and a 'newbie' ( very young modeler) came with his father and presented his build to us.

To listen to this very young man, see his his enthusiasm and how he went about his build was priceless and his interaction with and feedback from the members is something he nor we can buy on the internet.




Now I'm sure you will be delighted to to know, this is going to be my last input on this thread because quite frankly your 99.99% negativity has become boring and worthless to me in regards to the reality of the heading of this topic and it seems you are not receptive to hearing that some hobby shops are very successful and enjoy our customer base and model clubs....

Now, enjoy your day and your hobby.....

And as we used to say when I was serving in the military, "End Ex"..

Keith.

I do not refute the principle that Sauerteig is annoying

The problem is that your complaining about about paint prices plus shipping...buying paint at your LHS isn't going to keep its doors open either.

If costs are such an issue, buy paint in bulk...I normally have 2-3 bottles of commonly used paint so I don't have issues with running out of it while in the middle of a project and have to run to the LHS.

Before gas prices dropped like they did in the past 6 months or so, running to a LHS when figuring in gas/wear and tear/tolls/etc on my car would actually cost more then the $7.95 or so it would take it to get to me via USPS, which ranged from 2 days to two-three weeks depending on the source of it.

This turned into a cyclic arguing...
It is obvious that no one will change his mind about this matter, so this can keep going on and on endlessly.

LHS are a species in extintion, we like it or not.
I understand the predicament of those guys posting here who actually own a BnM shop, as well as I understand them trying to publicize and repeat the good side of LHS...
I don't deny some of them, while I do not agree with all.
The thing is that the world of bussiness cannot care less about what we think individually.
And, as already posted, the change is here and is happening now, so the most smart things is to adapt as fast as we can.
I miss a lot of things and stuff from my childhood and my youth, but they are gone, whatever I think or feel...