I'm not gonna wait longer. I've asked him to send my money back now
Hopefully he'll do it....
$170
I would really, really become angry if I'd loose so much money to someone who I trusted a lot
Buy, Sell or Trade
This forum is for all selling and buying related topics.
This forum is for all selling and buying related topics.
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Buyer Beware Bryan Gray
Martinnnn
Member Since: April 26, 2004
entire network: 5,435 Posts
KitMaker Network: 454 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 06:50 PM UTC
Well.....
I'm not gonna wait longer. I've asked him to send my money back now
Hopefully he'll do it....
$170
I would really, really become angry if I'd loose so much money to someone who I trusted a lot
I'm not gonna wait longer. I've asked him to send my money back now
Hopefully he'll do it....
$170
I would really, really become angry if I'd loose so much money to someone who I trusted a lot
F3066
Member Since: November 20, 2004
entire network: 71 Posts
KitMaker Network: 11 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 06:55 PM UTC
Fare enough if it was a once off a few guys etc but not,, when i think i counted at least 30 different people from all over the world,same thing to all ,well did anybody else order a 1/35 resin Ford V3000S truck i ordered this, i think back in May i think,, never came ,He did offer a refund, and again latter offered to send something else but i just put it down to postal errors and said no as i did'nt want him to be put out ....GO FIGURE and now look at all these posts on all these sites ......well take it from an X GRUNT from downunder MR X Royal if i ever find ya watch out.....
Martinnnn
Member Since: April 26, 2004
entire network: 5,435 Posts
KitMaker Network: 454 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 07:01 PM UTC
I send a PayPal money request.....
Let's see what happends
Let's see what happends
jimbrae
Member Since: April 23, 2003
entire network: 12,927 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,060 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 08:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
A whole discussion thread on a guy whome can very well read this, many people implying that somnething fishy could be going on.
Seems unecissary in my opinion, if you have problems with him pm the guy, i dont think a thread should be made, i mean what if it's legit and he's been having problems, i know if i was Bryan and that was the case, i'd be very hurt by this thread...
I think i'd be more hurt, if I owed money to several dozen people. To be honest, I don't think we are in the business of saving anyone's 'blushes' - particularly when he was continuing his 'trades' while he was a member of staff on this site.
What also concerns me, is that some of his 'clients' are people who can ill-afford to lose this money, by his actions he has damaged the faith many people had in the concept of trading on-line.
Please, reserve your sympathy for those who deserve it, those who bought in good faith and those people whose trust has been severely challenged...Jim
Plasticbattle
#003
Member Since: May 14, 2002
entire network: 9,763 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,351 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:00 PM UTC
I have been reading this post with interest for a while now. I had decided to keep mum, but why? I considered Bryan a friend also, and probably this is the reason he has gotten away with all this for so long. Everybody trusted him, and some still are willing. But to be honest the truth is stacking up against him now.
About a year ago I asked online if anybody had an Italeri 15cwt for sale ... Id even be interested in two, if several offers came in. Bryan offered to sell me two of them. We agreed on a deal and I sent off $70 through paypal. Same story .. slow post/lost in post. He was to contact Canada post on several occasions, but nothing happened. Still hasn´t.
But on the other side of the story. He offered a hold´n´fold for sale about 6 months after this. Because I trusted him and believed his previous explanation, I bought. IIRC he didn´t charge very much for postage and the item did arrive in good time. He also included 6 or 7 sets of posters, decals, and various paper AM items. This was to make-up for the previous shipment that went astray. Although it was something, it wasn´t 100% what I wanted or needed.
Overall I have very mixed feelings on the situation. But if anybody else was in the same situation, I dont think they´d still be accepted by the modelling community.
David ... when so much smoke is blowing, there must be a fire somewhere. I have held off, not wanting to join a witch-hunt, but because some may feel this thread is un-neccessary, I have decided to actually add my piece. Maybe if you were one of those burnt, you might feel differently.
Threads like this, are needed. When fraudsters are uncovered, a lot of people are spared.
Another reason threads like this are needed, because this does a lot of damage to trading/buying/selling among OUR community. I have traded/bought/sold items with quite a few members here, and have always had 100% success ( the aforementioned case being the only hiccup). Bad apples, no matter who they are, should not destroy it for everybody else.
There are loads of reasons why this could have happened. I wish Bryan would make his case. If not, there appears to be quite a few who feel they´ve been ripped off, and the same forum is here for Bryan to defend himself.
About a year ago I asked online if anybody had an Italeri 15cwt for sale ... Id even be interested in two, if several offers came in. Bryan offered to sell me two of them. We agreed on a deal and I sent off $70 through paypal. Same story .. slow post/lost in post. He was to contact Canada post on several occasions, but nothing happened. Still hasn´t.
But on the other side of the story. He offered a hold´n´fold for sale about 6 months after this. Because I trusted him and believed his previous explanation, I bought. IIRC he didn´t charge very much for postage and the item did arrive in good time. He also included 6 or 7 sets of posters, decals, and various paper AM items. This was to make-up for the previous shipment that went astray. Although it was something, it wasn´t 100% what I wanted or needed.
Overall I have very mixed feelings on the situation. But if anybody else was in the same situation, I dont think they´d still be accepted by the modelling community.
Quoted Text
A whole discussion thread on a guy whome can very well read this, many people implying that somnething fishy could be going on. Seems unecissary in my opinion .......
David ... when so much smoke is blowing, there must be a fire somewhere. I have held off, not wanting to join a witch-hunt, but because some may feel this thread is un-neccessary, I have decided to actually add my piece. Maybe if you were one of those burnt, you might feel differently.
Threads like this, are needed. When fraudsters are uncovered, a lot of people are spared.
Another reason threads like this are needed, because this does a lot of damage to trading/buying/selling among OUR community. I have traded/bought/sold items with quite a few members here, and have always had 100% success ( the aforementioned case being the only hiccup). Bad apples, no matter who they are, should not destroy it for everybody else.
There are loads of reasons why this could have happened. I wish Bryan would make his case. If not, there appears to be quite a few who feel they´ve been ripped off, and the same forum is here for Bryan to defend himself.
lestweforget
Member Since: November 08, 2002
entire network: 2,832 Posts
KitMaker Network: 680 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:09 PM UTC
Jim, my "sympathy" was a simple feeling of innocent until proven guilty, which i felt should be given to Bryan.
at first, when i posted it, it seemed to me, it could just be coincedences, and that he should not be condemned just yet, but now more and more people pitch in with the same problems, people i know very well, im thinking something could be, and probably is, very wrong.
again, i do hope bryan has a legitimate reason as to why this is all happening, and if it is again slow canadian post, then either canada has the worst postal service on earth, or there really is something nasty going on.
It seems everyone has made up their minds on the matter, but i do hope the chap is "innocent".
Cheers
and i do hope that all of you who have had misfortune with him so far are repaid somehow.
at first, when i posted it, it seemed to me, it could just be coincedences, and that he should not be condemned just yet, but now more and more people pitch in with the same problems, people i know very well, im thinking something could be, and probably is, very wrong.
again, i do hope bryan has a legitimate reason as to why this is all happening, and if it is again slow canadian post, then either canada has the worst postal service on earth, or there really is something nasty going on.
It seems everyone has made up their minds on the matter, but i do hope the chap is "innocent".
Cheers
and i do hope that all of you who have had misfortune with him so far are repaid somehow.
Martinnnn
Member Since: April 26, 2004
entire network: 5,435 Posts
KitMaker Network: 454 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What also concerns me, is that some of his 'clients' are people who can ill-afford to lose this money, by his actions he has damaged the faith many people had in the concept of trading on-line.
Well it sure damaged my faith
And indeed I can't afford to throw this money just away.....
MrRoo
Member Since: October 07, 2002
entire network: 3,856 Posts
KitMaker Network: 719 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:02 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What also concerns me, is that some of his 'clients' are people who can ill-afford to lose this money, by his actions he has damaged the faith many people had in the concept of trading on-line.
Please, reserve your sympathy for those who deserve it, those who bought in good faith and those people whose trust has been severely challenged...Jim
Well said Jim. I have emailed Bryan with a please explain message and also added that I hoped he would resond here as well.
I know I can ill afford to lose what I sent him but others have lost more. The lession I have learnt is that I will no longer buy goods from overseas off private people. End of story!
Judging by the dates of one particular thread in another sites forums when Bryans email was given as his staff email address here and the date that he "left" as managing editor I believe that a few 'in the know' folk here on site knew about this for quite a while and did not let members know of possible problems with dealing with Bryan. This I think is almost as bad as what Bryan has been suspected of doing as it let him do it to more innocent folk.
Cliff
skipper
Member Since: February 28, 2002
entire network: 5,182 Posts
KitMaker Network: 242 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:16 PM UTC
You can add another "scamed" to the list...
No need to tell the story, because it has been told!
Skipper
No need to tell the story, because it has been told!
Skipper
Gunny
Member Since: July 13, 2004
entire network: 6,705 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,084 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:39 PM UTC
Greetings, my friends...
I've been watching this thread since it has started, as I too myself could not really believe that Bryan would operate in such a manner, although I personally did not have any business transactions with him...on one hand, I can sympathize with the man at being at the mercy of the postal system, as I too myself had tried to operate a mail order model business last year on-line and yes, there were some postal problems, but were cleared up without any customer's bad aftertaste...also, just trying to keep up with the operation of an on-line business with working a full time job, and throw in the family life, and trust me, it can be a maddening thing..that is why I myself had to dissolve my website and business...but on the other hand, when you operate a business, and have customers, the satisfaction of your customers is the key ingredient to your success...and it doesn't take long to sour a relationship when there is money involved...I don't really know what has happened in this situation, but I agree with the others that know Bryan that it is a sad thing, and I think that he deserves the right to defend himself, but he also has an obligation with his customers that DEFINITELY needs to be addressed and soon! The direction that this situation is heading is just downright wrong, and he should at least be trying to "fix" these snafu's...But it sounds to me that it is FUBAR, and way too late to really solve this in any way at all...just my two cent's my friends...thanks for listening.
Gunny
I've been watching this thread since it has started, as I too myself could not really believe that Bryan would operate in such a manner, although I personally did not have any business transactions with him...on one hand, I can sympathize with the man at being at the mercy of the postal system, as I too myself had tried to operate a mail order model business last year on-line and yes, there were some postal problems, but were cleared up without any customer's bad aftertaste...also, just trying to keep up with the operation of an on-line business with working a full time job, and throw in the family life, and trust me, it can be a maddening thing..that is why I myself had to dissolve my website and business...but on the other hand, when you operate a business, and have customers, the satisfaction of your customers is the key ingredient to your success...and it doesn't take long to sour a relationship when there is money involved...I don't really know what has happened in this situation, but I agree with the others that know Bryan that it is a sad thing, and I think that he deserves the right to defend himself, but he also has an obligation with his customers that DEFINITELY needs to be addressed and soon! The direction that this situation is heading is just downright wrong, and he should at least be trying to "fix" these snafu's...But it sounds to me that it is FUBAR, and way too late to really solve this in any way at all...just my two cent's my friends...thanks for listening.
Gunny
keenan
Member Since: October 16, 2002
entire network: 5,272 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,192 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:43 PM UTC
I actually sent Bryan a kit and never received payment. I can understand a package getting lost in the mail but I have a hard time believing they lost the envelope with my money in it.
Just adding a "me too" to the discussion...
Shaun
Just adding a "me too" to the discussion...
Shaun
jimbrae
Member Since: April 23, 2003
entire network: 12,927 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,060 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 12:10 AM UTC
Just so people are aware of this, at latest count, there are four members of staff who are owed money/and or goods from Bryan Gray.
It is simply NOT correct to say that we have ignored the situation. Quite a bit has been going on behind the scenes for a few weeks now since the first thread started on M-L. I'm reluctant to say more about this as it's not my responsibility to comment. Suffice to say, there are a fair number of people affected here and on other sites.
On a personal note, this has thoroughly sickened me, and for the little its worth, I really hope that Bryan does the honorable thing with all those owed money...Jim
It is simply NOT correct to say that we have ignored the situation. Quite a bit has been going on behind the scenes for a few weeks now since the first thread started on M-L. I'm reluctant to say more about this as it's not my responsibility to comment. Suffice to say, there are a fair number of people affected here and on other sites.
On a personal note, this has thoroughly sickened me, and for the little its worth, I really hope that Bryan does the honorable thing with all those owed money...Jim
Gunny
Member Since: July 13, 2004
entire network: 6,705 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,084 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 12:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just so people are aware of this, at latest count, their are four members of staff who are owed money/and or goods from Bryan Gray.
It is simply NOT correct to say that we have ignored the situation. Quite a bit has been going on behind the scenes for a few weeks now since the first thread started on M-L. I'm reluctant to say more about this as it's not my responsibility to comment. Suffice to say, there are a fair number of people affected here and on other sites.
On a personal note, this has thoroughly sickened me, and for the liitle its worth, I really hope that Bryan does the honorable thing with all those owed money...Jim
Well said, Jim...that about sums this whole mess up, very simply...
Mark
thedutchie
Member Since: February 01, 2005
entire network: 1,299 Posts
KitMaker Network: 347 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 12:48 AM UTC
I hope this Bryan guy steps up and pays the people he owes. He is tarnishing a good name (bryan) Thank god my first name is spelt different :-) . I feel bad for all those who have been rooked. It aint cool. I hope you guys find justice.
kbm
Member Since: June 16, 2003
entire network: 678 Posts
KitMaker Network: 194 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 02:59 AM UTC
Just a quick comment here to those of you who have expressed a fear of buying on ebay or from private sellers who post on the various modeling websites. I have done both numerous times (too much according to SWMBO) and with this one exception, all of my sales, purchases, and trades have gone smoothly. this includes transactions involving people in Canada and the Far East. In other words, the vast majority of the people out there are honest and do the right thing. Hopefully this incident won't dissuade you from dealing with the many honest people who post here and on the other modeling websites.
Keith
Keith
HeavyArty
Member Since: May 16, 2002
entire network: 17,694 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,968 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 03:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just a quick comment here to those of you who have expressed a fear of buying on ebay or from private sellers who post on the various modeling websites. I have done both numerous times (too much according to SWMBO) and with this one exception, all of my sales, purchases, and trades have gone smoothly. this includes transactions involving people in Canada and the Far East. In other words, the vast majority of the people out there are honest and do the right thing. Hopefully this incident won't dissuade you from dealing with the many honest people who post here and on the other modeling websites.
Keith
Ditto to the above.
You can add me to the list for the Great Gray Scam as well though. It was only something small, so I am not really worried about it, but same story; lost in Canadian Postal System, I'll send another, and nothing, etc., etc....
Seems like quite the pattern.
sopmod6
Member Since: March 31, 2005
entire network: 761 Posts
KitMaker Network: 262 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 04:04 AM UTC
It's amazing how the Canadian Postal system can screw one person ALMOST exclusively, and watch you guys take the brunt of it. Personally, I've never dealt with said individual, but I've sent packages throughout the world and have yet to lose one. Call it luck, but to have so many people get the same excuse because of the Posty is ridiculous.
Sure people have obligations to their personal life and family, but I hear that as an excuse one to often. Too busy to send people their promised goods, but never to busy to receive them.
Amazing how this guy got a bunch of praise on another forum only to be scorned on here.
Caveat Emptor.
Sure people have obligations to their personal life and family, but I hear that as an excuse one to often. Too busy to send people their promised goods, but never to busy to receive them.
Amazing how this guy got a bunch of praise on another forum only to be scorned on here.
Caveat Emptor.
Martinnnn
Member Since: April 26, 2004
entire network: 5,435 Posts
KitMaker Network: 454 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 05:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've only had one bad experience with the Canadian Post. and it was some computer parts I sold and the were packed pretty well and they still managed to break a motherboard....LOL I think the box got tossed around alot!!!!!
Well at least you did receive something, better than this
mother
Member Since: January 29, 2004
entire network: 3,836 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,121 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 05:09 AM UTC
I was surprised and sadden to see this post, and having talked to Bryan many times made it even more surprising. I guess that I’m one of the lucky ones who had dealt with Bryan, some time ago we traded airbrushed and the both were received in a timely fashion. I only hope that Bryan will clear up his actions and make right with everyone.
exer
Member Since: November 27, 2004
entire network: 6,048 Posts
KitMaker Network: 845 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 05:22 AM UTC
I've never had any dealings with Bryan Gray except seeing his models here and on ML. This unforgivable behaviour seems to have happened all of a sudden and I wonder why, it must be pretty serious to do something that would lose you the respect of your peers and friends.
That said I wouldn't let it sour me on internet trading. I have bought stuff from all over the world, including Canada, and have never had a problem. I have had people send me stuff before my payment arrived. Once I asked if anyone knew a library where I could source the MMIR Modeler's Guide to The Sherman only to have an ML member send me his for keeps in return for the postage. I've tried to do my bit to foster that kind of thing and it would be a shame if Bryan's bad behaviour spoilt things for everyone
That said I wouldn't let it sour me on internet trading. I have bought stuff from all over the world, including Canada, and have never had a problem. I have had people send me stuff before my payment arrived. Once I asked if anyone knew a library where I could source the MMIR Modeler's Guide to The Sherman only to have an ML member send me his for keeps in return for the postage. I've tried to do my bit to foster that kind of thing and it would be a shame if Bryan's bad behaviour spoilt things for everyone
HILBERT
Member Since: August 07, 2004
entire network: 4,808 Posts
KitMaker Network: 360 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 05:39 AM UTC
I haven't any experience with this guy, but I think he proberbly read this post many times. Why doesn't he anwsers then??
He MUST apolagise for all this, it seems that you all not the seems only ones who had trouble with him.
I don't know if anybody had contact with him, but I think he should be aware of this and he is to scared for apolagise...
Take care, Best regards Hilbert.
Ps Thanks for all those posts so if I trade something with him I would be aware.
I hope it is a nice guy and I hope also he will reply soon.
He MUST apolagise for all this, it seems that you all not the seems only ones who had trouble with him.
I don't know if anybody had contact with him, but I think he should be aware of this and he is to scared for apolagise...
Take care, Best regards Hilbert.
Ps Thanks for all those posts so if I trade something with him I would be aware.
I hope it is a nice guy and I hope also he will reply soon.
bison44
Member Since: August 27, 2002
entire network: 471 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 05:46 AM UTC
The Canada post excuse is BOGUS!! I have sent and gotten packages from USA many times and the only problem I ever had was delays. Some of the packages had obviously been opened by customs and resealed. When those boxes go across the borders you have to hold your breath, but mine have always made it! I guess I am one of the lucky ones, got a kit from Bryan and delivery was on time and everything was fine. But it seems like almost everyone else got screwed!
You sure don't want to make false accusations but I am glad that everyone has come forward with thier dealings with Bryan. Kind of makes it hard to blame the mail or a busy schedule etc for not delivering on dozens of orders! When you think you are the only one not getting your kits you give the guy the benefit of the doubt....but I don't think you can in this case anymore! Thanks for getting this out in the open....or more people might have bought things from him and gotten burned as well.
You sure don't want to make false accusations but I am glad that everyone has come forward with thier dealings with Bryan. Kind of makes it hard to blame the mail or a busy schedule etc for not delivering on dozens of orders! When you think you are the only one not getting your kits you give the guy the benefit of the doubt....but I don't think you can in this case anymore! Thanks for getting this out in the open....or more people might have bought things from him and gotten burned as well.
thebear
Member Since: November 15, 2002
entire network: 3,960 Posts
KitMaker Network: 331 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 07:37 AM UTC
Well I for one consider Bryan a friend ,who I have met personally and even paid him a beer or two.. I too have had a kit lost in the mail but was supposed to replace it .. Bryan if you read this I still would like our deal to be honored...I don't like the idea of me losing $100.00 ..
Please e-mail me personally .
Rick
Please e-mail me personally .
Rick
sparky
Member Since: December 26, 2004
entire network: 128 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 07:44 AM UTC
I am another who experienced the same thing.
I had tried to buy 2 DML M4a1 Shermans from him.
5 weeks later, same thing lost in mail.
I was lucky though he refunded the money for the kits less postage
I had tried to buy 2 DML M4a1 Shermans from him.
5 weeks later, same thing lost in mail.
I was lucky though he refunded the money for the kits less postage
sopmod6
Member Since: March 31, 2005
entire network: 761 Posts
KitMaker Network: 262 Posts
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 08:49 AM UTC
The all to well known scam; send back the money less postage. After awhile, even that adds up.
Seems to be a trend with a couple of guys here...
Seems to be a trend with a couple of guys here...
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