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10 most inaccurate movies
Drader
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 09:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

one of my favorite war flicks is Apocalypse Now! despite that it is so outrageous and very likely exaggerated. I just enjoy it and i don't care how bogus it is. counter to that, i work with a guy who says he fully understands what being in the military is like and being in a war under combat because he viewed Full Metal Jacket. and he means it sincerely.


OMG! Full Metal Jacket can't even get the period music right. And if they wanted to film parts of London that look like Vietnam they should have gone to Hackney not Beckton....

David
Bratushka
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Posted: Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

one of my favorite war flicks is Apocalypse Now! despite that it is so outrageous and very likely exaggerated. I just enjoy it and i don't care how bogus it is. counter to that, i work with a guy who says he fully understands what being in the military is like and being in a war under combat because he viewed Full Metal Jacket. and he means it sincerely.


OMG! Full Metal Jacket can't even get the period music right. And if they wanted to film parts of London that look like Vietnam they should have gone to Hackney not Beckton....

David


i read you comment on the areas of London and my hair moved so i think your references must have went over my head.

most of the music in the film was written for effect rather than period accuracy. the end was from 1967, suzie q, the stones tune were all pretty appropriate. i don't know exactly what year the move was to have been set in off the top of my head. please elaborate. here's what's on the audio sound track:

The End (Doors)
Saigon [Narration and Dialogue]
The End (Part 2) (Doors)
Terminate [Narration and Dialogue]
Delta (Coppola / Coppola)
P.B.R. [Narration and Dialogue]
Dossier I (Coppola / Coppola)
Colonel Kilgore [Narration and Dialogue]
Orange Light (Coppola / Coppola)
Ride of the Valkyries (Wagner)
Napalm in the Morning (Dialogue)
Pre-Tiger
Dossier II (Coppola / Coppola)
Suzie Q (Hawkins / Lewis / Broadwater)
1 (Coppola)
75 Klicks (Dialogue)
Nung River (Coppola / Coppola / Hart)
Do Lung (Coppola / Coppola / Hansen)
Letters From Home (Coppola / Coppola)
Clean's Death (Coppola / Coppola / Hart)
Chief's Death (Coppola / Coppola)
Strange Voyage (Coppola / Coppola)
Kurtz' Compound (Dialogue)
Willard's Capture
Errand Boy (Dialogue)
Chef's Head (Coppola / Coppola)
Hollow Men
Horror (Dialogue)
Even the Jungle Wanted Him Dead (Dialogue)
End (Coppola / Coppola)

you have me curious about it.

your point seems to be that it is an unworthy film and anyone who likes it is somehow worthy of a point and laugh aloud? you don't think it's possible to take it at face value as entertaining distraction?

no disrespect intended but this almost seems like a carry over from the modelling side where any inaccuracy, however slight, glares as brightly as a kleig light and blinds out everything else. even something that was never intended to 100% precisely accurate and never was offered as such.
Drader
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2008 - 02:33 AM UTC
Hold on there - I was talking about the music on the soundtrack of Full Metal Jacket, which we can date to taking place in 67-68 since all the fighting is during the Tet offensive in early 68. The music is a couple of years earlier than that, my girlfriend who knows her 60s music backwards spotted it as soon as told her when the film was set.

The reference to London is because the battle scenes at the end of FMJ were filmed in a disused gasworks in Beckton, east London. Hackney (not quite so far east as Beckton) seems to have loads of Vietnamese restaurants nowadays.

And I like the original version of Apocalypse Now too, the Redux cut messes it up with lots of bits that verge on improvisation.

David




Bratushka
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2008 - 06:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hahaha, i was watching a movie, a while back, but i can remember the Panzers were plastic models
:D

cant remember the name, sorry :S

cheers, smithy


nobody did "special effects" with tanks as well as the old Godzilla movies did!
Bratushka
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2008 - 07:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hold on there - I was talking about the music on the soundtrack of Full Metal Jacket, which we can date to taking place in 67-68 since all the fighting is during the Tet offensive in early 68. The music is a couple of years earlier than that, my girlfriend who knows her 60s music backwards spotted it as soon as told her when the film was set.

The reference to London is because the battle scenes at the end of FMJ were filmed in a disused gasworks in Beckton, east London. Hackney (not quite so far east as Beckton) seems to have loads of Vietnamese restaurants nowadays.

And I like the original version of Apocalypse Now too, the Redux cut messes it up with lots of bits that verge on improvisation.

David






all apologies! my bad. i misread.

on the redux added footage i was surprised that many people who saw it did not know the French had a large presence in Viet Nam prior to the US. (i read a lengthy history of the area once and they have been at war virtually ever since it existed) i guess that's why cutting the sequence didn't affect the film although such an island of sanity and order in a sea of madness was a nice touch. but like the wedding scene in the Deerhunter it went on too long.

i also didn't know about the battle scenes locale. never having been to London or to Viet Nam the scene still looked Ok to me. on the same thought, i find it amusing that cities have become so similar over here that unless some landmark is involved directly any city can represent any city interchangably. and do

does anyone remember an old black and white movie called Warkill? when i was a kid that was the first jungle fighting movie i ever saw. the rats gave me nightmares for months afterwards.
jcourtot
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:04 PM UTC
How about "A Bridge Too Far" ? I thought that was pretty good, their were a couple off errors though.

Also how about "Uprising" That was terrible, The Tigers were still Panzer Grey in 1944, all of them!! That was a very stupid movie.

thxs,
John
randerson
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 02:39 PM UTC
Actually, according to the book , Blackhawk Down, the rangers, deltas and night equipped helicopters inflicted far more casualties than even the movie showed. The Somalies almost did just line up to get hosed, sometimes by their own.
Rich
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2008 - 01:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

did the series "Band of Brothers" make it out of the US? and "Saving Private Ryan"? how are those perceived? i know there are no doubt divergences from reality in any war picture, but they were a transition from the cowboys vs. indians mentality many older military movies followed.


Yes it did, and it was very, very good.


Quoted Text

a question: if you could pick a WWII movie to be remade with all the modern technology to make it accurate in regards to equipment and historical accuracy, what would you want to see remade?


Actually, I wouldn't. Three reasons. First, I don't think technology is yet up to the task of giving us truly convincing ground equipment. You can still see the joins, I'm afraid. Second, unless you want to make a completely faithful documentary, you have to monkey with the history slightly to make a decent movie - introduce a little bit of speculation, or time-compression, or artistic licence, to fit the demands of telling a story. It's like soap operas - if they were truly realistic, nothing would happen for weeks on end and half the dialogue would make even less sense that it does. And third, stuff remakes! Let's have some original movies instead! If we're talking about new depictions of subjects that have already been covered, by all means let's have 'em, but not remakes. "I've paid six quid to see this, you don't expect me to cope with a new plot as well?" - not me.

Talking of ersatz equipment, I saw Enemy At The Gates recently, and I was wondering what the basis of the German tanks was. Were they really Swiss Pz.61s?
mmeier
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2008 - 02:05 AM UTC
Well, Niven had the benefit of knowing what he was doing. After all he was a british officer and served in (and before) WWII.


Bratushka
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2008 - 10:05 AM UTC
let me rephrase the question a bit: does the historical inaccuracy of a movie ruin your ability to enjoy it?

i think i have mentioned this in this thread or another, but my professional background lets me spot the gibberish and technical inaccuracies when it comes to much electronic and computer systems spoken of or depicted in movies. sometimes it is a real groaner, but realisticly, if there are 300 people in the theater only maybe 5 or so of us can spot the bull pucky. but, it doesn't detract from the fun of watching the movie for me. i'm sure those in law enforcement. the medical field, fire and rescue, and many other professions have these same eyebrow-arching What the heck! moments. i just wondered about this since some comments about this subject used terms like "a disgrace" and the like describing these movies. it's like the point of this form of entertainment is being missed. it reminds me of someone saying a meal was lousy because the plates had an ugly pattern on them. as someone else mentioned, and i paraphrase, but the gist was movies are movies and the alternative is a documentary. the two are not necessarily the same as i believe a documentary is to educate and portray information that is supposed to represent fact while movies are often loosely based on facts. the primary purpose of a movie is to entertain. many of the films mentioned in here were quite popular when released and people enjoyed them. inaccurate or not, they were succesful. i know a woman who who had a movie made about her (To Brave Alaska, 1996) and her husband becoming lost in Alaska after being "forgotten" about when left in a remote area to work what was an abandoned gold mining area. her tale of the events differed so much from the movie's portrayal of her and what happened, the only facts the movie was based on was that it did happen in Alaska, they were forgotten and tried to make it back out of the camp to a town, it was cold, and she did lose toes to frostbite. everything else was embellished beyond belief. knowing her and seeing how simple minded her character was portrayed as and willing to go along with every bad decision her husband made was especially eye opening. she was absolutely livid over it after seeing it, but could do nothing since she had sold the rights to the story.
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2008 - 06:34 AM UTC
Inaccuracies:-
Battle of the Bulge
Sorry to kick a man when he's down, but it really is dire. Forget the tanks, what about the lack of snow, trees etc, wrong units, uniforms, wrong actions etc etc. They just didn't even try.
Some Italian film - I think it was called El Alamein, they used M113s as British tanks?! Surely they've got Shermans in Italy? Mind you they did show the Italians taking some part in the Desert war, which virtually everyone else seems to have forgotten, they were actually most of Panzerarmee Afrika.
Don't know about 9th Company, a Russian film about Afghanistan - looked pretty horrible, might be accurate...
Shame no one ever saw fit to make a film about Hill 112, in Normandy. Of course if it were left to Hollywood it would probably be defended by the US Marines rather than the DCLI!
Removed by original poster on 11/09/08 - 21:47:46 (GMT).
ElmerFudd
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Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2008 - 09:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Inaccuracies:-
Battle of the Bulge
Sorry to kick a man when he's down, but it really is dire. Forget the tanks, what about the lack of snow, trees etc, wrong units, uniforms, wrong actions etc etc. They just didn't even try.
Some Italian film - I think it was called El Alamein, they used M113s as British tanks?! Surely they've got Shermans in Italy? Mind you they did show the Italians taking some part in the Desert war, which virtually everyone else seems to have forgotten, they were actually most of Panzerarmee Afrika.
Don't know about 9th Company, a Russian film about Afghanistan - looked pretty horrible, might be accurate...
Shame no one ever saw fit to make a film about Hill 112, in Normandy. Of course if it were left to Hollywood it would probably be defended by the US Marines rather than the DCLI!


I just looked up the movie on youtube, that is hilarious, using m113s as tanks
LuckyBlunder
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 05:11 AM UTC
Enemy at the Gates.

The first few seconds are fairly accurate. The rest of the movie looks like "Friends - The War Years". Or maybe "Russia 90210".
LuckyBlunder
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 05:37 AM UTC
If this includes TV series then I nominate M.A.S.H. which was nothing but a platform for Allen Alda's anti US, anti military ranting. I don't recall that show ever blaming the North Koreans for starting it.
Bratushka
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 06:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If this includes TV series then I nominate M.A.S.H. which was nothing but a platform for Allen Alda's anti US, anti military ranting. I don't recall that show ever blaming the North Koreans for starting it.


really? that's how you saw it? interesting. i always thought it was more about a doctor's insight into the injuries and casualties of war. i think he was supposed to be a draftee as well. i never saw it as anti military although it did poke fun at some things that went on and some personalities. i don't really see that assigning blame for the hostilities was in any matter related to the stories on the show. to me it was just a glimpse into a small piece of a larger puzzle. quite honestly about every single odd character or caricature of a military person i have ever seen portrayed in most any movie or TV show, i have met or served around or with their real life counterpart.

out of curiosity, have you ever served?
Blackwulf
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 06:20 AM UTC
I would like to see the Battle of Britain remade. I may be the only one but I found the small piece in pearl harbor to be very entertaining. Loved the spits and the accurate "Looking" 109's. I realize ben affleck would have to go but I thought the CGI was decent and it would probably be much better today. If they could improve the story line over the original I think it could work. I was actually disappointed because I wanted to see the new Red Baron movie but heard that it might not be released in the US. Was wondering if anyone saw it and how good the movie was. Definitely looked 100 times better than flyboys if not for the simple fact that they used more than 2 planes (dr1 and the nieuport) for every dogfight.

I think it is impossible to recreate any military movie correctly. Because of this you could put down any movie for being inaccurate. I saw that someone had written that Saving Private Ryan was a bad movie. I am not into arguing about insignificant inaccuracies such as the tiger tank built on the t-34 chassis. I do however feel that the movie brought you as close as you could get to feeling the emotions that normal people endure when put into extraordinary consequences.

One last thing, it would be nice if people didnt feel the urgent need to beat up on soldiers of other nations. The soldiers that die are often the ones who do not have the choice on which battles they choose. Whether it was a right decision or a bad decision, people should respect those who have given their lives. "Butt Kicking" to me is disrespectful to those soldiers.
Spades
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 08:07 AM UTC
Pearl Harbor, Pearl Harbor, Pearl Harbor !!!!!!!!!!! Did I mention Pearl Harbor !? That movie was just awful. Complete crap, really, why waste time in making it if your going to mess with history !!?!!? Just..........ugh... (catching my breath)......I hated it. I mean, sure, thier are all the other inaccurate movies, but this, ugh.....
Bratushka
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 11:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I would like to see the Battle of Britain remade. I may be the only one but I found the small piece in pearl harbor to be very entertaining. Loved the spits and the accurate "Looking" 109's. I realize ben affleck would have to go but I thought the CGI was decent and it would probably be much better today. If they could improve the story line over the original I think it could work. I was actually disappointed because I wanted to see the new Red Baron movie but heard that it might not be released in the US. Was wondering if anyone saw it and how good the movie was. Definitely looked 100 times better than flyboys if not for the simple fact that they used more than 2 planes (dr1 and the nieuport) for every dogfight.

I think it is impossible to recreate any military movie correctly. Because of this you could put down any movie for being inaccurate. I saw that someone had written that Saving Private Ryan was a bad movie. I am not into arguing about insignificant inaccuracies such as the tiger tank built on the t-34 chassis. I do however feel that the movie brought you as close as you could get to feeling the emotions that normal people endure when put into extraordinary consequences.

One last thing, it would be nice if people didnt feel the urgent need to beat up on soldiers of other nations. The soldiers that die are often the ones who do not have the choice on which battles they choose. Whether it was a right decision or a bad decision, people should respect those who have given their lives. "Butt Kicking" to me is disrespectful to those soldiers.


LuckyBlunder
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 09:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If this includes TV series then I nominate M.A.S.H. which was nothing but a platform for Allen Alda's anti US, anti military ranting. I don't recall that show ever blaming the North Koreans for starting it.


really? that's how you saw it? interesting. i always thought it was more about a doctor's insight into the injuries and casualties of war. i think he was supposed to be a draftee as well. i never saw it as anti military although it did poke fun at some things that went on and some personalities. i don't really see that assigning blame for the hostilities was in any matter related to the stories on the show. to me it was just a glimpse into a small piece of a larger puzzle. quite honestly about every single odd character or caricature of a military person i have ever seen portrayed in most any movie or TV show, i have met or served around or with their real life counterpart.

out of curiosity, have you ever served?


Three years, regular Army, EOD specialist, one year in Korea. As anyone who has served can attest, there was cetainly a lot to caricature, but I never met anyone who remotely resembled the characters in MASH. It went beyond caricature into pure ridicule.

But, I could be wrong. If we'd pulled out to "stop the fighting", South Korea might be as well off as North Korea is today.
mmeier
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Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 01:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

what about "Das Boot" ?


I'm curious what you found very inaccurate about Das Boot? When I saw that in the movies (German with English subtitles) it was one of the most intense films I could remember . It was based on a novel written by a German war correspondent who searved on U-boats in the Atlantic.


Some minor stuff was wrong i.e. the coloring of the boat's interior (due to moviemaking reasons) and the exterior and interior of the boat don't match completely. The props in "Das Boot" are made based on the Typ VII in Kiel/Laboe and the small model used for the diving scenes was an earlier or later type. Bridge was also slightly off for security reasons (They used a scale model on a pontoon for some shots and had to ensure safe escape for the actors)

OTOH Lothar Günther Buchheim (That's the author) used his experience from multiple trips plus some naval reports to generate "Das Boot" (His experience included some depth tests on a type XXI, that's where the "working sound while diving" stuff is considerd to come from).

Btw: Buchheim's alter Ego (The war correspondent) is also the main person in one more books set in WWII's final year (Die Festung) and a book set years later (Der Abschied, set in 1978 on the Otto Hahn)
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 06:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If this includes TV series then I nominate M.A.S.H. which was nothing but a platform for Allen Alda's anti US, anti military ranting. I don't recall that show ever blaming the North Koreans for starting it.


really? that's how you saw it? interesting. i always thought it was more about a doctor's insight into the injuries and casualties of war. i think he was supposed to be a draftee as well. i never saw it as anti military although it did poke fun at some things that went on and some personalities. i don't really see that assigning blame for the hostilities was in any matter related to the stories on the show. to me it was just a glimpse into a small piece of a larger puzzle. quite honestly about every single odd character or caricature of a military person i have ever seen portrayed in most any movie or TV show, i have met or served around or with their real life counterpart.

out of curiosity, have you ever served?


Hey, M.A.S.H. was a TV Sit-com. I don't think there has ever been a sit-com, except maybe the Cosby Show in which the characters were not over drawn caricatures with lilttle, if any, relationship to how real people act or any reality at all. This is the format that gave us Mr. Ed, Gilligan's Island, My Mother the Car, Friends.

For that matter, most of what passes for scripted teleplays deal in stereotypes and exagerations.
TAFFY3
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Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 07:25 AM UTC
M*A*S*H, the book, the movie, and the TV show were all 'anti-war'. They were products of their time, Vietnam. The Korean War was the setting, but Vietnam was what it was really refering to. Shows like 'Hogan's Heroes' and 'McHale's Navy' were meant as entertainment, but M*A*S*H did have a point of view. My biggest gripe about the TV show was that, with very few exceptions, the members of the Regular U.S. Army were usually portrayed as either fools, or worse. Col. Potter being the biggest exception. I felt they could have been a little more fair in their treatment of those who protect their right to express their views. Of course the characters were all exagerations, that is what characters are, larger than life. That is what makes them funny.
Bratushka
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Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 12:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I felt they could have been a little more fair in their treatment of those who protect their right to express their views.


i was in the military, the Army, at the tail end of Viet-Nam. i lived off-post and in a college town. i was in my early twenties at the time and i can attest that it was NOT an era where it seemed anybody respected you for being in the military. the cold hearted overt nastiness from civilians my own age, especially the college women was unbelieveable and something i was very unprepared for. somehow the anger against the war was replaced by anger against those who served. i wish i had a buck for every "GI dog!" s i heard or for the "F*** Y** GIs that were yelled from passing cars. (i never was spat on or at, though and never knew anybody who was.) i have to admit that some of the things that went on in the GI town on the opposite side of the post provided much cause for some of the prejudice against the guys in green. compared to three years of that kind of daily treatment in the real world i could hardly find any offense in a TV show like MASH. lastly, no offense intended, but i am always puzzled by the comment i quoted above and its variations. whether a matter of speech, a film, a TV show, a book, or what have you, this "right" to speak your mind or hold a contrary opinion always seems to have an asterisk and a qualifier. i'm often reminded of a lyric from an old Steppenwolf song from their first album back in 1968:

"You're free to speak your mind my friend
As long as you agree with me
Don't criticize the father land
Or those who shape your destiny
'Cause if you do
You'll lose your job your mind and all the friends you knew
We'll send out all our boys in blue
They'll find a way to silence you"

i recently saw a documentary about the consequences of the anti-Bush comment one member of the Dixie Chicks made. people were threatening to kill her and hurt her family. coincidentally, over a hundred radio stations all owned by one media company stopped playing their songs and people were encouraged to stop buying their CDs. there was a quite open attempt to destroy their lives and their careers for doing something they had a legal and constitutionally protected right to do. on a personal basis, i can't logically make the leap between saying that my military service helped protect this Country, the greatness of which is based or rights we all have as citizens among other things, and then expect because i did so that anything anybody says about me or any portrayal of the service i was in is supposed to be uncritical or deferential .

i've also been a biker for most of my life. i never got upset over movies like Born Losers or Wild Hogs even though to me the latter is worse than the former IMHO. people can say and believe as they want. Oliver Stone can toy with history. Hogan's Heros can portray German military as buffons. it's all OK fine. it is what it is; somebody's opinion or view. it's the USA, not the (former) USSR or China under Mao so it's perfectly OK and legal to have one. sometimes i think we forget what those places were like and risk becoming like them.

wow- sorry for the rant! too much coffee today. think i'm going to take a valium and go lay down...
LuckyBlunder
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Posted: Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 12:34 AM UTC
Jim -

I don't think it was a rant at all. In fact, I think you and Taffy3 have hit the nail on the head. I think we're dealing with a difference in generational outlook

I came home from Korea in 1960. I could put on my Class A's with the Eighth Army patch, walk into a bar and have guys buying me beer. The chicks liked the uniform too.

I wore my uniform with a lot of pride, as I'm certain you did too. The difference is that your pride and service was never reaffirmed by your countrymen. It was, and still is, a damn shame you never had that.

MASH is part and parcel of that anti-military, anti-war attitude, applied blindly and without regard to the effect on other people.

In the unlikely event we sould ever meet - the



on me.

Steve
 _GOTOTOP