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Filthy lies again!

Cavalry

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Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 01:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

And the T-34 is the best tank of WWII. It had reliability like the Sherman, Armor with strength aproaching that of the Tiger, and a gun strong enough to beat almost anything.

Not really. The first T-34 76mm had slightly less penetrative performance than the Sherman's 75mm. Don't recall if that included T-34's 76.2mm. Their 85mm was slightly below the 88 L/56 of Tiger I. However, IIRC T-34/85 were given an allotment of special (APDS, APBCDS, APHVDS...???? I can't recall all these ABC special rounds) ammo to even the odds. Still, their 85mm could defeat Tiger I's frontal armor with 500m, IIRC. I am going by an old Ian Hogg book.

Quoted Text

Sir I can only refer you to the Michael Wittman example from Normandy...his crew assisted by other destroyed a Canadian tank column--outnumbered by the Allied force, his lads ably handled the superior force. Train them correctly and screw the odds.

The puny 75mm of the RTR tanks were incapable of penetrating Tiger I's frontal armor at all but the closest range. Also, Wittmann caught them at rest, rescanning for their next advance, probably 'brewing up'. He surprised them. In the chaos they couldn't acquire him while all he had to do was move down the line shooting--target-rich environment where anything in front of him was a target (while the Allied force didn't know what was moving through the smoke at them.) Other than some 57mm (6 Pounder) antitank guns, I don't recall reading that the Canadians even got off a shot at him until he was withdrawing through the village.

I just finished [url=http://www.amazon.com[WITTMANN-COMMANDERS-LEIBSTANDARTE-Stackpole-Military/dp/0811733343/sr=8-1/qid=1165764847/ref=sr_1_1/002-0217409-3931242?ie=UTF8&s=books[/url] and there are other fascinating combats during Kursk.

Fred-- thank you for the insightful response.

Lucky13

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Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 02:12 AM UTC

Villers-Bocage

airwarrior

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Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 08:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not really. The first T-34 76mm had slightly less penetrative performance than the Sherman's 75mm. Don't recall if that included T-34's 76.2mm.

That's why it was replaced after the very first year of production of the T-34. It's first transmission was also poor, but was also replaced with the gun in the 1941 model.

I would say it was the best tank of WWII because of it's balance of what makes a great tank, it had a good gun, very good armor, great reliability, and an exceptional production run. This is in contrast to the poor reliability and terrible production qualities of the Tiger, and the poor armor and gun strength of the Sherman. The only tanks I can see approaching the quality of the T-34 are the Panther (but only after it's transmission problems were fixed) and the later long gun Pnz.IV.

That being said I do need to read up more on the Pnz.IV and the Panther.

Lucky13

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Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 01:28 PM UTC

I would pick the Panther nae bother, if I had to choose...

SURVIVABILITY ON THE BATTLEFIELD:

Along with the extremely effective main gun, a major asset of the Panther was the thick frontal armor. However, the sides and rear were vulnerable to attack from most tank guns including the American 75mm and the Russian 76mm tank guns at long ranges. The tables extracted from a Wa Pruef 1 report dated 5 October 1944 relate the relative ability of some the major opponents to penetrate the Panther and vica versa as shown in the following Penetration Range Table(s). The penetration ranges were determined based on the assumption that the tanks stood at a side angle of 30 degrees to the incoming round.

PENETRATION RANGE: PANTHER vs T34/85 AND JS 122

Panther 7.5 cm Kw.K. penetrates T34/85 up to: 2000m (Front Turret) 1200m (Mantlet) 300m (Glacis) 300m (Nose) 2700m (Side Turret) 2900m (Super) 3500m+ (Side Hull) 3300m (Rear Turret) 2300m (Rear Hull).

T34/85 85mm S53 penetrates Panther up to: 500m (Front Turret) 0 m (Mantlet) 0 m (Glacis) 0 m (Nose) 3400m (Side Turret) 2400m (Super) 3500m + (Side Hull) 3400m (Rear Turret) 3400m (Rear Hull).

Panther 7.5 Kw.K. penetrates JS 122 up to: 800m (Front Turret) 400m (Mantlet) 600m (Glacis) 1000m (Nose) 1600m (Side Turret) 1600m (Super) 2000m (Side Hull) 400m (Rear Turret) 1000m (Rear Hull)

JS 122 122mm A19 penetrates Panther up to: 1500m (Front Turret) 500m (Mantlet) 0 m (Glacis) 100m (Nose) 3500m+ (Side Turret) 3500m+ (Super) 3500m+ (Side Hull) 3500m+ (Rear Turret) 3500m+ (Rear Hull)

PENETRATION RANGE: PANTHER vs SHERMAN A4 AND CHURCHILL

Panther 7.5 cm Kw.K. penetrates Sherman A4 up to: 2500m (Front Turret) 1000m (Mantlet) 100m (Glacis) 2800m (Nose) 3500m+ (Side Turret) 3500m+ (Super) 3500m+ (Side Hull) 3500m +(Rear Turret) 3500m+ (Rear Hull).

Sherman A4 76mm M1A1 penetrates Panther up to: 700m (Front Turret) 100m (Mantlet) 0 m (Glacis) 0 m (Nose) 3500m+ (Side Turret) 2800m (Super) 3500m + (Side Hull) 3500m+ (Rear Turret) 3500m +(Rear Hull).

Panther 7.5 Kw.K. penetrates Churchill up to: 2000m (Front Turret) 2000m (Mantlet) 1700m (Glacis) 1700m (Nose) 2000m (Side Turret) 3000m (Super) 3000m (Side Hull) 2800m (Rear Turret) 3500m+ (Rear Hull).

Churchill 75mm M3 penetrates Panther up to: 0 m (Front Turret) 0 m (Mantlet) 0 m (Glacis) 0 m (Nose) 1500m (Side Turret) 400m (Super) 2600m (Side Hull) 1500m (Rear Turret) 1500m (Rear Hull).

Note: The Glacis is also known as the Driver’s Front Plate

In addition, lucky hits on the lower half of the original gun Mantlet sometimes deflected downward, occasionally defeating the 16mm deck plate over the driver and radio operator. The data shows that, in a frontal attack , even the upgunned Russian T34/85 only stood a chance of penetrating the frontal armor by hitting the very small target presented by the the turret front of the Panther. Based on Penetration ranges, without consideration of numerous other factors, the Panther outclassed all common opponents tanks and was only matched by the the Russian heavy Josef Stalin with the 122mm gun.

The Panther was intended as the standard tank for regular Panzer Divisions. However, on production grounds only one battalion of each regiment was so equipped. The other battalions were equipped with the Panzer IV or Sturmgeschutze (assault guns). A total of 6,283 Panthers were built which included the different specialized versions (Command, Tank-recovery, Tank-destroyer, etc).

In the course of efforts to simplify production, even greater commonality with the Tiger II (Konigstiger) was planned from 1944. The new version was to be called the Panther II. The project got no further than the drawing board, however. Looking back, one can draw the conclusion that instead of producing four types of tank (Panther I and II, Tiger I and II) the production of a single medium tank, the PANTHER, would have sufficed. This was all that the units needed - despite the rather legendary reputation of the TIGER. So it is in the armies of today, which have only one type of main battle tank

The ammunition stowage arrangements in the Panthers allowed for 79 main gun rounds in the Ausf.D and Ausf.A, 82 rounds in the Ausf.G, and 64 rounds in the Befehlspanther

FIREPOWER
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The effectiveness of firepower that can be delivered by the main gun is dependant upon the penetration ability of the armor piercing rounds, inherent accuracy of the gun, characteristics of the gun sights, and ability to get quickly and accurately on target.

German penetration statistics for armor plate were expressed in terms of the thickness in mm that could be perforated when the plate was laid back at an angle from the vertical of 30 degrees. The penetrating ability of armor piercing rounds fired from the 7,5 cm Kw.K.42 L/70 was determined by tests conducted at firing ranges which proved that the results shown in the Table below could be achieved.

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Name: 7,5cm KwK 42

Caliber/Length: 75mm/L70
Projectile: APCBC PzGr 39/42
Weight (kg): 6,8
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 935
Armor Perforation (mm) Range (m):
100 = 138mm
500 = 124mm
1000 = 111mm
1500 = 99mm
2000 = 89mm

Projectile: APCR PzGr 40/42
Weight (kg): 4,75
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 1120
Armor Perforation (mm) Range (m):
100 = 194mm
500 = 174mm
1000 = 149mm
1500 = 127mm
2000 = 106mm

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Of the total ammunition load (79 rounds in the Ausf.D and Ausf.A, 82 rounds in the Ausf.G, and 64 rounds in the Befehlspanther), the recommended ratio was 50 percent PzGr.39/42 (armor piercing, capped, ballistic capped with explosive filler and tracer) and 50 percent SprGr.42 (high explosive shells). Occasionally, when available, a few rounds of PzGr.40/42 (high velocity, sub-caliber, tungsten core with tracer) were carried for use against the heaviest armored Russian tanks and tank destroyers. The PzGr.40/42, without an explosive filler charge, was not as lethal after penetration as the PzGr.39/42.

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Name Caliber/Length Projectile Maingun Accuracy (%)
Type Name Weight(kg) Muzzle Velocity (m/s) Test Type Range (m)
500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000
7,5cm KwK 42 75mm / L70 APCBC PzGr 39/42 6,8 935 Tests 100 100 100 92 73 55

Practice 100 97 72 49 29 18
APCR PzGr 40/42 4,75 1120 Tests 100 94 76 56
Practice 100 56 32 20
HE SprGr 42 5,74 700 Tests 100 100 90 66 42 28
Practice 100 97 44 24 13 8

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The 7,5 cm KwK42 L/70 was a very accurate gun capable of first round hits at ranges exceeding 1000 meters. The estimated accuracy is given as the probability (in percentage) of hitting a target 2 meters high and 2.5 meters wide, representing the target presented by the front of an opposing tank. These accuracy tables are based on the assumptions that the actual range to the target has been correctly determined and that the distribution of hits is centered on the aiming point. The Test data show the accuracy obtained during controlled test firing of the gun to determine the pattern of dispersion. The Practice data include the variation expected during practice firing due to differences between guns, ammunition, and gunners. Both data were reported in the accuracy tables from an original report on the 7,5 cm KwK42 L/70 as shown in the Accuracy table. These accuracy tables do not reflect the actual probability of hitting a target under battlefield conditions. Due to errors in estimating the range and many other factors, the probability of a first round hit was much lower than shown in these tables. However, the average, calm gunner, after sensing the tracer from the first round, could achieve the accuracy shown as the Practice data.

The sight in the Panther Ausf.D and Ausf.A produced up to November 1943 was the articulated, binocular Turmzielfernrohr 12 mounted parallel and on the same axis as the main gun. Each of the two sight tubes had a different sight reticle. The pattern in the left reticle consisted of 7 triangles, separated by 4 mils. Placing the target on the point of a triangle allowed the gunner to aim without obstructing the view of the target. The distances between triangles were used to lead moving targets. The triangle height and separation distances in mils were also used as an aid in estimating the range to a target. The pattern in the right reticle also contained the 7 triangles plus adjustable range scales that allowed the gunner to register the exact range to the target. The range scale was graduated at 100 meter intervals out to a range of 2000 meters for the PzGr.40/42, 3000 meters for the PzGr.39/42 and 4000 meters for the Sprgr.42.

With the replacement gun sight Turrnzielfernrohr 12a, introduced during the production run of the Panther Ausf.A in late November/early December 1943, the gunner could select two magnifications, 2.5X and 5X. The lower magnification provided a wider field of view for target detection. The higher magnification assisted in precise aiming at long ranges. The adjustable range scales allowed the gunner to register the exact range to the target. The range scale was graduated at 100 meter intervals out to a range of 2000 meters for the PzGr.40/42, 3000 meters for the PzGr.39/42 and 4000 meters for the SprGr.42.

To quickly traverse onto a target, the Panther was outfitted with a hydraulic motor for the turret drive. In the Aust.D, the hydraulic drive traversed the turret at a maximum rate of 360 degrees in 60 seconds independent of the engine speed.

An improved hydraulic traverse was introduced with the Ausf.A in which the speed at which the turret was traversed under power was dependent on the engine speed. At the maximum allowable engine speed of 3000 rpm, the turret could be traversed at a maximum rate of 360 degrees in 15 seconds. After November 1943, with the HL 230 P30 governed at 2500 rpm, the turret traverse speed decreased to a maximum of 360 degrees in 18 seconds.

The hydraulic traverse enabled coarse laying for the gunner to quickly acquire the selected target within the viewing field of the sight. Fine adjustment (laying the target onto the peak of the proper triangle in the sight reticle) was accomplished using the gunner's hand traverse and hand elevation wheels. If the power traverse failed the gunner could traverse the turret by hand. The gunner could be assisted by the loader using the auxiliary hand traverse.

Performance Characteristics

Panzerkampfwagen V Ausf. D/A/G
Maximum Speed: 54,9 km/h *
Average sustained road speed: 30-35 km/h
Average cross country speed: 20 km/h
Radius of action, road: 200 km
Radius of action, cross country: 100 km
Smallest turning radius: 4,7 m
Maximum turning radius: 79 m
Trench crossing: 2,45 m
Fording: 1,9 m
Step climbing: 0,9 m
Gradient climbing: 35 degrees
Ground clearance: 0,56 m
Ground pressure: 0,73 kg/cm2
Power to weight ratio: 15,5 PS/ton with the Maybach HL 230 P30
* Maximum speed decreased to 45,7 km/h after November 1943 when the HL 230 P30 motor was regulated not to exceed 2500 rpm5

The Panther initially experienced numerous automotive problems which required a continuous series of modifications to correct. These problems can be traced to three main causes: leaking seals and gaskets, an overtaxed drive train originally designed for a 30 metric ton vehicle, and an untested engine. But, following modification of key automotive components, with mature drivers taking required maintenance halts, the Panther could be maintained in a satisfactory operational condition

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Combat and Experience Report on the Action near Wilkowischken from 9 to 11 August 1944 by Oberfeldwebel Heinz Bergmann of the 4. Kompanie/Panzer-Regiment 26

The East Prussian border was threatened. The enemy had succeeded in reaching Wilkowischken. Counter measures were initiated. During the night of 8/9 August, heavy Panzers, Artillerie, Fusiliers, Grenadiers and Flak came rolling together on the roads Ebenrode-Eydtkau-Wirballen and gathered in the assembly area. It is the best division in the East, "Grossdeutchland" with its attached units. The fire fighters of the East as they are called. It had the objectives of pushing back this corner of the Front and to retake Wilkowischken.

The assembly area was lit by the dawn and quiet reigned. A gigantic portrait of military might and power had gathered here in a confined area. Punctually at the ordered time for the attack, the motors started and their droning ripped through the still of the morning. Like an avalanche, the impregnable spearhead rolled toward the enemy main battle line and bored through. Closely followed by the Fusiliers and Grenadiers enlivened by a spirit to attack against which every resistance must break. Also, the enemy is awakened and sent his artillery and motar shells against the juggernaut. Enemy destroyer aircraft attack in waves attempting to force a halt. Fountains of earth climb skyward. Sheds in which the enemy take cover, go up in smoke and flames. Unstoppable, the spearhead advanced toward Wilkowischken, grinding guns and positions underneath. Often in man-to-man combat, the Fusiliers and Grenadiers engage the tough and stubborn enemy. At about 1200 hours, the city is in our hands. The battlefield shows the mark of heavy combat. The enemy has lost large quantities of both men and material. Positions were established to defend the city. Toward the southeast, in the rear of the city, two Panthers pulled into their defensive area. Russian tanks were reported. Not a half hour had passed when four Russian tanks approached the city from from the southeast. They were spotted immediately, but the range was still too long. Then they disappeared into a depression. Will they come up again is the question. There, somewhat left, all four appeared in a line at a range of 1300 meters. Now their full size was seen and the defenders opened fire. Five shots quickly followed each other and three columns of smoke stand out against the sky. The fourth was lucky to turn right and disappeared into a patch of woods. Was it only an advanced spearhead? Will still more follow or were they recon vehicles? The eyes of the commanders search the terrain. But nothing stirs.

Twilight slowly enveloped the terrain in darkness. What will the next day bring? Will the Russians try to counterattack and retake the city or not? The leader decided to change to another position to get a better field of fire. During the night running motors from moving tanks were heard. Toward morning, a Panther was called back for resupply and the other Panther had to take over the entire defense.

Daybreak has long since passed and an attack was not expected when out of the depression at full speed fourteen Russian tanks carrying infantry charged toward the defending Panther. The loader was outside well away from the Panther finishing his business when shelling forced him to take cover. This made the situation more difficult. The driver took his place and fire was opened at a range of 1000 meters. Shot after shot was sent toward the attacker. The enemy had charged to within 600 meters turned right and disappeared into a hole. Four enemy tanks remained as smoking wrecks on the track. An immediate call on the radio alerted the defenders positioned further to the north. They managed to destroy six of the ten remaining tanks. Driving wildly, the rest escaped. An attack behind our front had been repulsed and cost the enemy heavy losses.

Again the defending Panther changed his position. After an hour, the second Panther returned from being resupplied and took up his defensive position. The enemy hadn’t given up their attempt to enter the city. During the afternoon, the enemy with an infantry battalion supported by four SU assault guns, under cover of the tall corn fields, tried twice to break in from the southeast. But, both attacks were completely repulsed by the two defending Panthers. All four SU assault guns that took part in both of these attacks were shot up. Two Panthers defending the city from the south and southeast had broke up two tank and two infantry attacks. The enemy suffered the loss of eleven tanks and very heavy losses of men.

Cavalry

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Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 05:48 PM UTC

Wow! That is some great relevant data on the vehicles.

Lucky13

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Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 07:51 PM UTC

The reticles for the TZF 12 and TZF 12a gun sights with the range scales that could be indexed for the various types of ammunition

Lucky13

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Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 08:13 PM UTC

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Nightfighting Panthers
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Some few Panthers were equipped with special infrared devices for night combat. The "Heereswaffenamt" WaPrüf 8, in cooperation with the AEG was dealing with this kind of optical equipment since 1936, but devolopment was discontinued and the decision to further investigate in this area wasn´t made until the Allies gained total airsuperiority in 1943. From now on much energy was invested in the project.

The results of these investigations, which were lead by Ministerialrat Dr.-Ing. H.Gaertner Heereswaffenamt/WaPrüf 8, were, that in 1943 the Wehrmacht equipped some few Panthers with 200-mm infra-red searchlights FG 1250 and a BIWA (Bildwandler - image converter), which converted the infra-red image into a visible reproduction. In the first tests at the armoured forces school at FALLINGBOSTEL (North Germany) near HANNOVER the crews trained to drive and to aim at night. Admittedly the searchlight range wasn´t more than 600 metres, limiting the long range advantage of the excellent KwK42 75mm/L70.

Starting in late 1944, some Panther Ausf.G were outfitted with the "FG 1250" infra-red searchlight and scope. The FG was mounted on a rotating ring inside the upper lip in the commander´s cupola. A steel band, threaded through a hole in the turret roof, connected the infra-red sensing scope to a device for sensing changes in the gun´s elevation.

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Nightfighting Panthers
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Some few Panthers were equipped with special infrared devices for night combat. The "Heereswaffenamt" WaPrüf 8, in cooperation with the AEG was dealing with this kind of optical equipment since 1936, but devolopment was discontinued and the decision to further investigate in this area wasn´t made until the Allies gained total airsuperiority in 1943. From now on much energy was invested in the project.

The results of these investigations, which were lead by Ministerialrat Dr.-Ing. H.Gaertner Heereswaffenamt/WaPrüf 8, were, that in 1943 the Wehrmacht equipped some few Panthers with 200-mm infra-red searchlights FG 1250 and a BIWA (Bildwandler - image converter), which converted the infra-red image into a visible reproduction. In the first tests at the armoured forces school at FALLINGBOSTEL (North Germany) near HANNOVER the crews trained to drive and to aim at night. Admittedly the searchlight range wasn´t more than 600 metres, limiting the long range advantage of the excellent KwK42 75mm/L70.

Detailed Sketch of the 200mm "FG 1250" infra-red searchlight and scope

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The FG 1250 infared searchlight and scope mounted on the commander´s cupola of an Panther Ausf.G. The steel band was fed through a hole in the turret roof at the base of the cupola. This steel band, connected internally to an indicator, allowed the gunner to recognize when the elevation of the gun was on target.

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Brief Datalist
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Early 1930s: Nightvision equipment research began in Germany

1934: AEG unveiled a device named "Braunsche Roehre" in 1934, a core IR conversion technology

1939: a military prototype of an IR Nightvision device was fitted to a 37mm Pak-36 and presented before the OKW, but it could not meet the requirement that it be easily operable and offer similar accuracy for the weapon as in daytime, so it failed to secure further assistance from the army.

In the fall of 1942, it was fitted to 75mm Pak-40 for further tests, and produced very successful test results by middle of 1943.

By spring 1944, some 1000 IR units were supplied but the army officially refused their usage

June 1944: After D-Day, the Germans could move safely only at night, highlighting the need for IR equipment. A limited number was issued to the army and the airforce, a few months later.

The Infrared unit was basically composed of two components: infrared searchlight (Infrarot-Scheinwerfer) and imaging device (Bildwandler or "Biwa")

The Infra-red unit was fitted to AT guns, trucks, Marder IIs, few Jagdpanthers, and most notably Panthers along with Sdkfz 251 operating alongside

In early 1945, Panzerdivision Clausewitz went into action in Fallersleben/Niedersachsen. It had negligible armor, but two of the Panthers were equipped with IR device (probably "Sperber").

Some operational account remains for April 21, 1945: Being lead by Sd.Kfz.234/1 recon vehicles the last 10 of the tanks approched the US AT position by Weser/Elber canal (76mm AT Gun M-2) First assault started at 2 AM. The Americans were alerted and flares were launched. The lead Panther was hit and fell into a ditch. IR Panthers took their turn, which located the AT guns and fired some 20 rounds, destroying the pakfront. The opposing artillery men and supporting personnel fled in panic. IR Panthers went into persuit and destroyed several trucks and support vehicles. The attack was a success which demonstrated the tremendous potential of IR technology.

Some Panther G models were fitted with special exhaust pipes to reduce detection. All IR devices were ordered to be destroyed after a tank was lost. All devices were connected to stick grenades which were to be detonated by the last man abandoning.

Mid April 1945: More IR Panthers appeared towards the end of the war. Some were encountered by British armored units: one unit met some IR Panthers near Uelzen and after a one-sided fight, 1 British platoon of Comet tanks was annihilated.

Special night tactics were devised at the panzer school in Fallingbostel. 3 IR Panthers had welded on armored fences on engine decks shielding 3 grenadiers armed with MP44s serving as lookouts and armed with IR equipped MP44s ("Vampir"). The Panthers are lead by Sdkfz 251/21 "Falke" boarded by MP44 armed grenadiers. When attack is feasible, support comes from Sdkfz 251/20 60 cm "Uhu" IR searchlight.

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Because of this reason the developers mounted an even greater 600mm searchlight on a halftrack, the Sd.Kfz. 251/20 "UHU", which was intended to be attached to each platoon to enhance the night fighting range of the platoon. Finally the Wehrmacht planned to use a halftrack called FALKE in combination with the vehicles mentioned. This halftrack was intended to be the transporter for a Panzer Grenadier Squad, which was equipped with nightfighting capable Sturmgewehr-44s called VAMPIR. The Wehrmacht codename for this Kampfgruppe consisting of UHU/FALKE/VAMPIR was SPERBER and intended for nightfighting at combat ranges up to 2500 metres.

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200mm IR searchlight and scope for driver mounted on Sd.Kfz. 251/20

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Left and Right pictures: 600mm searchlight IR device "UHU" mounted on Sd.Kfz. 251/20

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Production History
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Starting in September 1944, a limited number of Panthers were to be outfitted with an infrared searchlight and scope mounted on the commander's cupola. The 200 watt screened light, in combination with the infrared receiver/gun sight, had a range of up to 600 meters in clear weather at night. A steel band connected the infrared sight to an internal control for gun elevation.

The following changes were made to a normal Ausf.G to prepare it for mounting the FG 1250 infrared searchlight and scope. A mount was welded on the inner ring for the 12-Uhr-Zeiger that still allowed the free rotation of this ring. A hole for the steel band connecting the infrared scope to the internal elevation control was bored in the turret roof in front of the commander's cupola. An armored guard for this hole was welded to the turret roof. Four base plates for mounting an armored bin were welded on the right side of the hull rear, replacing the Gepaeckkasten (021 St 48399) stowage bin. The stand for the battery and GG 400 electrical generator was mounted inside in the right rear corner of the fighting compartment, replacing the three-round ammunition bin, a section of floor plate and the cover for the rear shock absorber.

Each Panther with an FG 1250 was identified by the letter "F" stamped behind the Fahrgestell Nummer on the serial number plate (not to be confused with the "Panther Ausf.F"). On 7 August 1944, MNH was sent a model of the FG 1250 that was to be installed in the Panther Ausf.G with Fgst.Nr.128520 F. Since it was determined on 8 August 1944 that installation was to be expedited, the model of the FG 1250 was to be mounted in Panther Ausf.G with Fgst.Nr. 128495. On 4 September 1944, MNH reported that, the model of the FG 1250 couldn't be mounted in Fgst.Nr.128495 due to shipping delays, but MNH intended to mount it in Fgst.Nr.128557 (completed on 5 September 1944).

Also, on 7 August 1944, MNH had received directions to install the FG 1250 infrared sighting equipment in accordance with the following schedule: 50 in September, 70 in October, 80 in November, and 100 in December 1944. MNH countered with a proposal to complete all 120 Panther Ausf.G with FG 1250 in October, instead of 50 in September and 70 in October. On 8 August 1944, due to the military situation, OKH rejected the counterproposal and ordered MNH to mount the FG 1250 on the last 50 Panther Ausf.G completed by MNH in September.
On 5 October 1944, MNH reported that due to the delayed arrival of acceptance specifications, only 20 Panthers were produced mounting the FG 1250 in September. However, the shortage of 30 from September were to be completed in October. MNH was then scheduled to complete a total of 80 Panthers with FG 1250 in October.

On 18 November 1944, MNH noted that based on the latest orders from OKH, FG 1250 were not to be mounted on any Panther completed in November. The Panthers already prepared for installation of the FG 1250 were to be converted back to normal Ausf.G. This included re-mounting the Gepaeckkasten stowage bin on the right hull rear, replacing the stand for the GG 400 with the three-round ammunition bin, and removing the mounts for the FG 1250 in the turret, as well as removing the battery and the high voltage transformer. In this same order, MNH was directed to outfit 30 Panthers with FG 1250 in December.

On 13 December 1944, MNH was informed that they were still expected to mount 30 FG 1250 on Panthers in December 1944. Later, MNH was ordered to outfit all of their Panthers with the FG 1250 starting on 15 January 1945.
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Nightfighting Panthers in Action
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In summer 1944 the Panthers of 3.Kompanie, 24th Panzerregiment, 116th Panzerdivision, were equipped with UHU on the battle/excercise-area BERGEN, and actually trained the use of the nightfighting concept SPERBER. Hitler planned the mission of this Kompanie to be during the Operation WACHT AM RHEIN (Battle of the Bulge) and actually some squads were tranfered to the western front, but never saw action there.

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One SPERBER squad including their Panthers was transfered to STUHLWEISSENBURG (Hungary) in early 1945 with 6th SS-Panzerarmee, intended to support the german counterattack to secure the area of Budapest. The rest of the Kompanie followed, but without nightfighting equipment. In 1945 the Wehrmacht planned to form 5 SPERBER Kompanies, but this concept proved to be illusory. 2 SPERBER squads joined the spontanuous formed Panzerdivision "CLAUSEWITZ", which was formed in spring 1945 on the western front. On 21st of april, these 2 squads ran down an american ambush, which has been set up at the WESER-ELBE-KANAL, and by this ensured the only documented action of the nightfighting concept SPERBER.

In march 1945 the Panzerdivision "MÜNCHEBERG" received one fully equipped Kompanie of 10 SPERBER capable Panthers and one SPERBER capable Panzer Grenadier Kompanie. The Division took part in the last fights during the battle of BERLIN. If this Division used the SPERBER concept isn´t documented.

The armoured forces school at FALLINGBOSTEL developed an even more mature solution called "LÖSUNG B - solution B" to make use of the FG 1250 device. Since the system SPERBER had the critical drawback that only the tankcommander had nightvision and therefore had to direct the driver and the gunner, experiments were made with some Panther As and Ds which were equipped with an infrared-searchlight and image converter for the driver and a periscope for the gunner. This way 3 crewmembers obtained nightfighting ability. In April 1945 some of the solution B equiped Panthers were ordered to the Division "CLAUSEWITZ". In mid april these Panthers saw their only doctumented action near UELZEN, where they destroyed a full platoon equipped with the brandnew british Comet tanks.

Lucky13

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Posted: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 11:32 AM UTC

Here's good website to read more about the Tiger Tank.
The life and times of Germay's Tiger Tanks: PzKpfw. VI Tiger I

Cavalry

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Posted: Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:04 PM UTC

Jan-- are you using this web site or did you find additional material in another book or location? It is dynamite information. The reticle picture is superb. Let us know where you found the information.
thanks

Lucky13

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Posted: Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jan-- are you using this web site or did you find additional material in another book or location? It is dynamite information. The reticle picture is superb. Let us know where you found the information.
thanks

Found the Panther info at another website, I'll see if I can find it again. This one is good as well.
These guys J.J. Fedorowicz Publishing Inc. have some excellent books. Got a few myself about the Tiger I etc.
I'll get back to you Cavalry....

Tapper

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Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 09:38 PM UTC

The History Channel can air some programs that makes me spit my beer out in disbelief but it doesnt compare to HOLLYWOOD's version of history, especially World War 2 history. Even the so called "Military Experts" who are hired to advise the writers,directors and producers of Hollywood movies, for the most part, have no idea what they are doing(Not that I am an expert myself). Did anyone else laugh when they saw the tactics employed by the Waffen SS when they were storming the town in the last part of the movie in Saving Private Ryan?

"Hey Fritz, lets WALK single-file in two rows down the middle of the street. What could possibly go wrong? But before we do that, lets send our armor down the street without clearing out those buildings."

Ever see u571? Another gem.

Lucky13

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Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 10:20 PM UTC

Sometimes it's probably best for your own health and safety NOT to eat or drink watching "classics" like that.....

:-) :-)

spongya

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MODELGEEK

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Posted: Monday, January 08, 2007 - 12:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

Just been watching the History Channel and Kursk. They said that the T-34 was the best designed tank in WWII. What's your opinion?

No problem with that!

Very true

(Don't forget that the Panther was not a medium tank according to weight -it rather compares to the IS-2, to which it was inferior; the problems with having a gas-engine, instead of a diesel; and take in account the cost of building one compared with a T-34. All these factors need to be taken into account.)

Most of the documentaries are seriously one-sided. When I started to learn history on my own (my history teacher in high school was less than satisfactory) I was surprised to learn about the Boxer Revolution, the Opium trade to China, Britain's use of poison gas against revolting colonies (and the general brutality), the Philippines and Hawaii, the Mexican-American wars, the Iran-contra scandal, the School of Americas, and so on... the less-than glorious parts of history are not very well represented in these documentaries.

By the way, if films were mentioned: I recently saw the Battle of the Bulge and I was greatly disappointed. The history, the story, the acting --- it was sad, really.

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