By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer
8 minutes ago



BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people in the deadliest campus shooting rampage in U.S. history. The gunman was killed, bringing to death toll to 22, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

The name of the gunman was not immediately released, and investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not immediately known if the gunman was a student.

FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."

The bloodbath took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building, authorities said.

Police said they were still investigating the shooting at the dorm — and the campus was under lockdown, with students to stay indoors and away from the windows — when authorities got word of gunfire at the classroom building.

Some of the dead were students. One student was killed in the dorm, and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.

Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police. In the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo., in 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was in Killen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard drove his pickup into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse football team.

The rampage took place on a brisk spring day, with snow flurries swirling around the campus, which is is centered around the Drill Field, a grassy field where military cadets — who now represent a fraction of the student body — once practiced. The dorm and the classroom building are on opposites sides of the Drill Field.

A gasp could be heard at a campus news conference when the police chief said at least 20 people had been killed. Previously, only one person was thought to have been killed.

Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began marking and recovering the large number of shell casings and will trace the weapon used, according to an ATF official who spoke on condition of anonymity because local authorities are leading the investigation.

A White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said

After the shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed, and classes were canceled through Tuesday. The university set up a meeting place for families to reunite with their children at the Inn at Virginia Tech. It also made counselors available and planned a convocation for Tuesday at the basketball arena.

After the shootings, students were told to stay inside away from the windows.

"There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dorm where shooting took place.

Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.

"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."

"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.

Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN, said: "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on the floors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible."

Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks by authorities but said they have not determined a link to the shootings.

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.

Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

___

Associated Press writer Matt Apuzzo in Washington contributed to this story.

Horrible news indeed.

My sympathies go to the families and friends of the victims, and the persons who manufactured/ sold the gun.. they have to live with this too.

This is indeed a sad day for all. Blacksburg is about an hour and a half away from where I live, and there are some families here that have kids attending VT.

My heart goes out to all.

This is really sad. Having gone through, vicariously, the shootings up in Columbine this is really too close to home. I do wish though that the media will stop saying, "the worst shootings in American history." That seems to me to just be waving a red flag in front of some crazy who take it as motivation to go out and do even more killings.

Greetings all;
As a father who had two sons attending Columbine during the massacre, I would like to offer my sincrest sympathies to the familes who have suffered losses and fear due to this tragedy. As a cyber community we are touched by this horror at many levels.

My thoughts and prayers are extended to the college students and faculty of Virginia Tech as they grieve.

How the hell does a student get his hands on a pistol of that kind,plus ammo,and then is given the time to do what he did?the families of the dead kids must be asking the same questions......any aswers!!!
Arthur

Many US states have laws that restrict gun ownership for rifles at 18 and handguns at 21. Same goes for purchases of ammunition for respective firearms. Many states don't require extensive backround checks for firearms purchases besides the usual DOJ/Federal and state backround checks.

The gunman at VA Tech was 23 so legally able to purchase/own firearms by federal and state laws. VA also allows open carry (unconcealed) without a permit issued by state, but concealed carry must have a permit. The state of Virginia recently passed a law restricting law abiding citizens with state issued concealed carry permits from carrying on campus and they instead had to leave said firearms at a campus police station.

Just a little info for you on firearms purchases in the US and firearms laws in VA.




A little more. Not sure if your refering to a pistol with the capacity he supposedly had, but if so heres some more.
Many pistols have aftermarket magazines that allow 15+ rounds to be carried plus one in the chamber= 16 rounds. He apparently had two Glock 17 semi-autos with these 15rd mags so thats 32rds there. Assuming he had at least one reload for each that 64 rounds of I think 9mm( most common handgun ammuntion), which is very easy to conceal in a pocket or bag.

Arthur,
According to the news tonight, he walked into a gun shop, presented his green card (resident alien identification), gun permit, driver's license and his credit card. The shop owner did a state police criminal records check and he was clean. He walked out with a Glock 9 mm, 50 rounds of ammo and a 15 shot clip. Just over a month later, he picked up the Walther P22 at a pawn shop.
All completely legal in the Commomwealth of Virginia which allows a person to purchase no more than one handgun within thirty days.

Thankyou Al,and Matt for the info,it just seems strange to me living in the UK that you can walk off the street and buy weapons of that type,i know it is enshrined in your constitution,the right to bear arms,we are having trouble with rising gun crime with the weapons coming from Eastern Europe,seems if you want a gun,legal or not they are always available,sad but true.
Arthur

Virginia has a carry concealed law for permit holders but the board of trustees of VT said that anyone caught with a weapon on campus with a permit, while they could not be prosecuted, would be fired or expelled. The Virginia State legislature tried and failed to overrule VT's restrictions. Consequently you had one crazy well armed shooter and 26000 unarmed innocent victims waiting to be shot.

Shaun

And I'll bet my plastic teeth if the nut case knew someone else was packing he would have thought twice about it. It's not the gun that did the killings, it's the nut cases using the guns.

No, I am NOT a member of the NRA, nor so I wish to become one.

This is not a case for more gun laws, it a case for more mental health laws. Keep the nuts locked up. I work in a state nut farm, and most people never hear about the numbers of assaults and deaths to employees due to "confidentiality laws" yet the bleeding hearts still want to turn them loose. And because of these "Confidentially Laws" all the background checks will never turn up the nut cases buying guns.

By ADAM GELLER, AP National Writer
1 minute ago



BLACKSBURG, Va. - Virginia Tech students still on edge after the deadliest shooting in U.S. history got another scare Wednesday morning as police in SWAT gear with weapons drawn swarmed Burruss Hall, which houses the president's office.

The threat of suspicious activity turned out to be unfounded, said Virginia State Police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said, and the building was reopened. But students were rattled.

"They were just screaming, 'Get off the sidewalks,'" said Terryn Wingler-Petty, a junior from Wisconsin. "They seemed very confused about what was going on. They were just trying to get people organized."

One officer was seen escorting a crying young woman out, telling her, "It's OK. It's OK."

Roommates and professors began opening up Wednesday about the gunman who had killed 32 people and himself in two university buildings on Monday. Roommates said Cho Seung-Hui rarely spoke or made eye contact with them and that his bizarre behavior became even less predictable in recent weeks.

Cho started waking up as early as 5:30 a.m. instead of his usual 7 a.m., his roommate, Joseph Aust, told ABC's "Good Morning America."

"I tried to make conversation with him earlier in the year when he moved in," Aust said. "He would just give one-word answers and stay quiet. He pretty much never looked me in the eye."

Aust was among many students and professors who described the killer in the worst shooting massacre in modern U.S. history as a sullen loner, and authorities said he left a rambling note raging against women and rich kids.

News reports said that Cho, a 23-year-old senior majoring in English, may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

Professors and classmates were alarmed by his class writings — pages filled with twisted, violence-drenched writing.

"It was not bad poetry. It was intimidating," poet Nikki Giovanni, one of his professors, told CNN Wednesday. "At first I thought, OK, he's trying to see what the parameters are. Kids curse and talk about a lot of different things. He stayed in that spot. I said, 'You can't do that.' He said, 'Yes, I can.' I said, 'No, not in my class.'"

Giovanni said her students were so unnerved by Cho's behavior that she had security check on her room and eventually had him taken out of her class. Some students had stopped coming to class, saying Cho was taking photos of them with his cell phone, she said.

In screenplays Cho wrote for a class last fall, characters throw hammers and attack with chainsaws, said a student who attended Virginia Tech last fall. In another, Cho concocted a tale of students who fantasize about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

"When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare," former classmate Ian MacFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site.

"The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of."

He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said Cho's writing was so disturbing that he had been referred to the university's counseling service.

Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

"We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

With classes canceled for the rest of the week, many students left town, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.

On Tuesday night, thousands of Virginia Tech students, faculty and area residents poured into the center of campus to grieve together. Volunteers passed out thousands of candles in paper cups, donated from around the country. Then, as the flames flickered, speakers urged them to find solace in one another.

As silence spread across the grassy bowl of the drill field, a pair of trumpets began to play taps. A few in the crowd began to sing Amazing Grace.

Afterward, students, some weeping, others holding each other for support, gathered around makeshift memorials, filling banners and plywood boards with messages belying their pain.

"I think this is something that will take a while. It still hasn't hit a lot of people yet," said Amber McGee, a freshman from Wytheville, Va.

Cho — who arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., where his parents worked at a dry cleaners — left a note that was found after the bloodbath.

A law enforcement official who read Cho's note described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

"You caused me to do this," the official quoted the note as saying.

Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said.

The official said the letter was either found in Cho's dorm room or in his backpack. The backpack was found in the hallway of the classroom building where the shootings happened, and contained several rounds of ammunition, the official said.

Monday's rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart — first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died. Two handguns — a 9 mm and a .22-caliber — were found in the classroom building.

According to court papers, police found a "bomb threat" note — directed at engineering school buildings — near the victims in the classroom building. In the past three weeks, Virginia Tech was hit with two other bomb threats. Investigators have not connected those earlier threats to Cho.

Cho graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.

At least one of those killed in the rampage, Reema Samaha, graduated from Westfield High in 2006. But there was no immediate word from authorities on whether Cho knew the young woman and singled her out.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.

Some classmates said that on the first day of a British literature class last year, the 30 or so students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

On the sign-in sheet where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, `Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock and a box of practice ammo to Cho 36 days ago for $571.

"He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious," Markell said.

Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But State Police ballistics tests showed one gun was used in both.

And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were on both guns. Their serial numbers had been filed off.

Gov. Tim Kaine said he will appoint a panel at the university's request to review authorities' handling of the disaster. Parents and students bitterly complained that the university should have locked down the campus immediately after the first burst of gunfire and did not do enough to warn people.

Kaine warned against making snap judgments and said he had "nothing but loathing" for those who take the tragedy and "make it their political hobby horse to ride."

"I'm satisfied that the university did everything they felt they needed to do with the heat on the table," Kaine told CBS' "The Early Show" on Wednesday. "Nobody has this in the playbook, there's no manual on this."

By MATT APUZZO, AP National Writer
9 minutes ago



BLACKSBURG, Va. - Between his first and second bursts of gunfire, the Virginia Tech gunman mailed a package to NBC News containing pictures of him brandishing weapons and video of him delivering a diatribe about getting even with rich people.

"This may be a very new, critical component of this investigation. We're in the process right now of attempting to analyze and evaluate its worth," said Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police. He gave no details on the material, which NBC said it received in Wednesday morning's mail.

NBC said that a time stamp on the package indicated the material was mailed in the two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire in a high-rise dormitory and the second fusillade, at a classroom building. Thirty-three people died in the rampage, including the gunman, 23-year-old student Cho Seung-Hui, who committed suicide.

The package included a manifesto that "rants against rich people and warns that he wants to get even," according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the case.

MSNBC said the package included a CD-ROM on which Cho read his manifesto.

Late Wednesday, MSNBC showed a photo from the package of Cho glaring at the camera, his arms outstretched with a gun in each hand. He wears a khaki-colored military-style vest, fingerless gloves and a backwards, black baseball cap. "NBC Nightly News" planned to show some of the material Wednesday night.

NBC News President Steve Capus said the network promptly turned the material over to the FBI in New York.

The material is "hard-to-follow ... disturbing, very disturbing very angry, profanity-laced," he said on the MSNBC Web site. Among the materials are digital video files showing Cho talking directly to the camera about his hatred of the wealthy, Capus said.

It does not include any images of the shootings, but contains "vague references," including "things like, `This didn't have to happen,'" Capus said.

The package bore a Postal Service stamp showing that it had been received at a Virginia post office at 9:01 a.m. Monday, about an hour and 45 minutes after Cho first opened fire, according to MSNBC.

If the package was indeed mailed between the first attack and the second, that would help explain where Cho was and what he did during that two-hour window.

Earlier in the day Wednesday, authorities disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho was accused of stalking two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders because of fears he might be suicidal. He was later released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.

The disclosure added to the rapidly growing list of warning signs that appeared well before the student opened fire. Among other things, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and sullen, vacant-eyed demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.

In November and December 2005, two women complained to campus police that they had received calls and computer messages from Cho, but they considered the messages "annoying," not threatening, and neither pressed charges, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said.

Neither woman was among the victims in the massacre, police said.

Around the same time, one of Cho's professors informally shared some concerns about the young man's writings, but no official report was filed, Flinchum said.

After the second stalking complaint, the university obtained a temporary detention order and took Cho away because an acquaintance reported he might be suicidal, authorities said. Police did not identify the acquaintance.

On Dec. 13, 2005, a magistrate ordered Cho to undergo an evaluation at Carilion St. Albans, a private psychiatric hospital. The magistrate signed the order after an initial evaluation found probable cause that Cho was a danger to himself or others as a result of mental illness.

The next day, according to court records, doctors at Carilion conducted further examination and a special justice, Paul M. Barnett, approved outpatient treatment.

A medical examination conducted Dec. 14 found that that Cho's "affect is flat. ... He denies suicidal ideations. He does not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder. His insight and judgment are normal."

The court papers indicate that Barnett checked a box that said Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness." Barnett did not check the box that would indicate a danger to others.

It is unclear how long Cho stayed at Carilion, though court papers indicate he was free to leave as of Dec. 14. Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said Cho had been continually enrolled at Tech and never took a leave of absence.

A spokesman for Carilion St. Albans would not comment.

Though the stalking incidents did not result in criminal charges, police referred Cho to the university's disciplinary system, Flinchum said. But Ed Spencer, assistant vice president of student affairs, would not comment on any disciplinary proceedings, saying federal law protects students' medical privacy even after death.

Some parents complained that the university failed to lock down the campus and spread a warning after the first round of shootings. Still, two days after the shooting spree, many students resisted pointing fingers.

"Who would've woken up in the morning and said, `Maybe this student who's just troubled is really going to do something this horrific?'" said Elizabeth Hart, a communications major and a spokeswoman for the student government.

Lucinda Roy, professor of English at Virginia Tech, said that she, too, relayed her concerns to campus police and various other college units after Cho displayed antisocial behavior in her class and handed in disturbing writing assignments.

But she said authorities "hit a wall" in terms of what they could do "with a student on campus unless he'd made a very overt threat to himself or others." Cho resisted her repeated suggestion that he undergo counseling, Roy said.

One of the first Virginia Tech officials to recognize Cho's problems was award-winning poet Nikki Giovanni, who kicked him out of her introduction to creative writing class in late 2005.

Students in Giovanni's class had told their professor that Cho was taking photographs of their legs and knees under the desks with his cell phone. Female students refused to come to class. She said she considered him "mean" and "a bully."

Questions lingered over whether campus police should have issued an immediate campus-wide warning of a killer on the loose and locked down the campus after the first burst of gunfire.

Police said that after the first shooting, in which two students were killed, they believed that it was a domestic dispute, and that the gunman had fled the campus. Police went looking for a young man, Karl David Thornhill, who had once shot guns at a firing range with the roommate of one of the victims. But police said Thornhill is no longer under suspicion.

___

Well said Dave. This is about Nut Control rather than Gun Contol.

As we learn more about Mr. Cho and his problems, it gets me that even in the "accepting of all," "embrace the diversity of others" environment of the university, other students and even the profs thought he was a nut job and either wanted nothing to do with him or were afraid of him. The authorities had him, but failed to get him the help he needed because it would have violated his civil rights. For him to get help, he had to commit a serious crime -- apparently his stalking did not qualify as serious enough.

Forget the guns -- if he could not have bought them, he would have committed his violence with a hammer, a knife, a machete, a chainsaw ... anything he could have gotten his sick little hands on. I know thousands of people who own probably tens of thousands of guns and none of them have used them to commit a crime. The one guy I did personally know who committed murder did so with a steel fence post and his bare hands. No gun laws would have stopped him.

I know where Dave is coming from. I was once a prison guard and we temporarily housed a couple hundred people who many would call "criminally insane," though that is not the legal term for them. Some were extremely dangerous people (i.e., incapable of feeling pain, deviant sadists, living in alternate realities, hearing voices, sexual predators, etc.), but we had to treat them different because they were legally "patients," not "inmates."

What happened at Virginia Tech is very sad and my heart goes out to the families, friends and survivors. However, I fear whatever knee-jerk reaction some of our knucklehead legislators might come up with in response.

A girl I graduated with is there on a volleyball scholarship, so I'm just glad she is alright. As for the shooting, only to a certain extent can we prevent tragedies like this. Humans like to establish logic and reasoning in the actions that we do. Such an act as this has no logic, at least not a logic that we are used to. We easily see this watching the creative writing (he was an english major) of his video and it is barely fathomable for me to comprehend.

So from a college student's perspective:
Where we go from here, is adjusting security measures within colleges and other institutions (Ball State here has already received numerous emails pertaining to security procedures) to deal with campus shootings, something they had little contingency for. The problem is that it is not practical for every institution to sustain the measures that are required to provide absolute security all the time (I say this from personal experience as I provide security for athletic events). At its foundation (I hope), Americans believe in the overall goodness of humans and freedom of movement. And in order for people who are not mentally stable to get the care they need, they must feel secure that their life is not ruined because they received treatment (this too from personal experience). The vast majority of those that need treatment for mental issues are not at risk for committing acts like this.

What I am hoping is that the [self-censored]storm that is to follow about gun laws, mental health care, and security will get through the media as quickly as possible because what is needed is not pundits and editorials (such as the miniture one that I am writing now ), but rational people in meetings getting together with officials to throughly review procedures and to establish any necessary new ones in an honest, open, and practical setting.

Jeff

As a college student I think that it is sad and troubling to say the least.

In large classes and common areas we are certainly very vulnerable. Eating my lunch today in the student union amongst about 150-200 people it struck me what an easy target we could be. We need to keep an eye out for guys like this and intervene sooner.

As far as the solution, I'm with Dave. Concealed carry of firearms by law-abiding, permitted, and trained people would go far in stopping this. In Kansas we have recently passed such a law with the stipulation that you are NOT allowed to carry on college campuses. Maybe it's time to re-think that.

While the police are crouched behind cover OUTSIDE the building waiting the 20 minutes plus for SWAT to arrive you would at least have a chance to stop the bloodshed and save yourself or others. If the students/faculty had been allowed to carry I wonder how many fewer names would be on the list of killed?

Sorry, I'm not trying to politicize this tragedy but I think it could have been stopped so easily and prevented such a waste of good people's lives.

I'd rather meet a nut carrying a knife or a cricket bat than one carrying a 16-round Glock, thanks.




Think he could've killed 32 people with a hammer? Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

When someone is allowed to use something that can potentially be misused, like an automobile, they are trained in its use and must pass a stringent exam before being given a licence. Why can't you Americans do that? How many of your kids do you need to see die before you realise guns ARE the problem?

I'm an ex-soldier, and I love firearms. I think it'll be great if everone could carry pistols like in the Wild West, so that the next time someone cuts you out of the supermarket queue yoou could blaze away. But in the end, I know I can't arm and train my four-year old son to defend himself. Nor can I make my home into an armed fortress from which I can hold off the animals. So I'd rather have guns carried by people who are trained, permitted, and capable of carrying and using. Or not at all.

If we allowed anyone who felt like it to buy a car and drive off with no training or examination, would you still say "This about Nut Control, not Car Control"? Would you feel the same about guns if your kid had been killed in Virginia or at Columbine?

Remember in Japan that an insane cult leader was able to commit mass murder by releasing poison gas in a subway? Or how about all the terrorist bombings around the world? The Oklahoma City bombing was committed using a truck filled with fertilizer and fuel oil-perfectly legal substances pretty much anywhere, as far as I know.

Actually, I believe people in the US can buy a car without having a driver's license, though they legally couldn't drive it.

How many poison gas attacks have you had in the USA? How many Oklahoma's? Now, how many Columbines, Ruby Ridges, Virginia Techs, and all the other daily random gun-murders have you had? When poison gas attacks or fertiliser bombings become a problem in the USA, you can start control of those, too, but until then, may be you should look at the guns. Just a suggestion.




Maybe you need to look into that too.

As someone who held a firearms licence for years and with no particular axe to grind - i'm totally with the above comments.

I'd also add that I find that the legal interpretation of a 230 year-old document an extremely worrying basis for the lack of any serious control (in many States) of very powerful weapons. I also find some of the loopholes (Gunshows for example) as frankly terrifying.

It's also depressing when incidents like this are reported in Europe with an unholy glee - and serve as an example to the 'Evils' of the U.S.A. - here in Spain, the Muppet Show (who pass as journalists) are having a great time with this story.

Somewhat ironically, in this region, the police have just made 20+ arrests (including a Catholic priest) of an ILLEGAL network selling firearms - including an MP44 and several (fully-automatic) AKs.

It's also somewhat ironic that I can buy a pistol easier than a resident of NYC...

This whole thing leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, and a feeling of sadness for those young students who directly faced a psycopath in their midst.
What leaves me choking is that this deranged monstor sent pictures and video to NBC BEFORE he went on to kill some more. I hope NBC haven't actually broadcast these.
(On a similar note, here in NZ one of the major news stories of the day was about a mob of teenagers who attacked a 16 year old boy from their school. The 14 & 15 year old monsters then sent the attack video to YouTube.)

For those who think carrying a concealed weapon would stop this I would like to ask some questions:

1) How long would it take for a sane person, with no training in a crisis situation, to draw a gun and shoot another human, even if that person was armed? How quickly could the gun be fired in such a situation, and how accurately?

Films and TV always show the hero is able to make instant and correct decisions, thus saving the situation. I don't believe that many of us in real life have the ability to instantly shoot another human, regardless of the threat posed to ouselves, or our loved ones or our friends. Any hesitation simply means another target and another weapon or weapons for the killer to use.

2) How many of those who may wish to carry concealed firearms have actually been faced with the kill or be killed choice?

3)How often has a crisis escalated because someone with a concealed firearm decided to be a hero? It sounds great to say 'Yeah, I stopped a killer!' More often than not the killer has another victim to chalk up.

4) Would the knowledge that people around him may have been carrying weapons stopped Cho Sueng-Hui? I doubt it - the way this psycopath was he would have probably relished the challenge.

Even with the best of intentions learning to fire a handgun quickly and accurately at a human who is firing back takes a great deal of practice. How many of those who say 'Let everyone who wants to carry a concealed firearm' actually have the training and ability to use the weapon properly? Firing at paper targets is one thing; firing at and even disabling a human who may well be doped on P and, at the very least, is high on adrenaline, is a completely different thing.

Not too sure about NBC, Jeff, but CNN certainly broadcast the pix & video this morning.

I am posting this as an ex-soldier, current police officer, and definate supporter of the NRA. IT IS NOT ABOUT GUNS. How many times does that need to be pointed out. In the US, the most dangerous crime ridden areas, places that it is not safe to walk after dark, are (SURPRISE) the most heavily gun controlled places in the country. New York, Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Washington DC, New Jersey, California etc. People like to compare Japan to America in the comparison of crime rates. Well that is just not a valid comparison. Sure the Japanese have banned all civilian gun ownership. But the quality of the people makes the comparison void. If you could imagine suddenly taking the two populations and swapping them. If tomorrow morning the only people living in California (with firearms) were the Japanese people how much do you think they crime rate would Plummnet? 50% 99%? What do you think would happen in Japan with all the crips and bloods and Mexican Mafia and Aryan Brotherhood running around?

The fact is that only you can be relied on to protect yourself. The police only get there in time to clean up the mess. Katrina anyone? Someone above mentioned a wild west atmosphere if everyone carried a weapon. Please, how far from reality can you get. In the states whenever a state considers adopting a concealled carry law all the anti gun nuts start screaming about shootouts and carnage and mayhem. The TRUTH is that every state that does it had a drop in the violent crime rate. Why? More guns = more crime right? WRONG good people can and will defend themselves and the criminals know that.

The fact is, the 2nd amendmant is a part of the bill of rights, the bill of rights protects an individuals rights. Some of the anti gunners like to claim that the 2nd only applies to forming Militias/National Guard. That is clearly false. Why would the 2nd be included in a document protecting individuals, and be the only thing in that document that did not pertain to the individual?

The only problem in this entire mess is that a nut, a readily identified nut, was allowed to walk around free. I know that in my own state they have shut down several "nut farms" where these people should be locked away. The court system had him, the shrinks had him and they let him walk. If they had done their jobs and commited him like they should have , then he would ot have been able to pass the background check to purchase the gun. But that may not have stopped him from getting one. England is having a rising gun crime wave right. Drugs are banned, you cant walk into a store and buy them, you can't go to a "drug show" and get them, yet we have no shortage of them. Why do people think that banning the sale of guns will suddenly stop crimes committed with a gun?