You said a mouthful (with them plastic teeth! LOL) Dave! One guy from Texas said if he pulled that crap in Texas, he would have shot at best 1-2 people. Then everyone else in class would have blown him away.

Stricter gun laws wouldnt have prevented this. Stricter gun laws have always kept guns away from normal people. Criminals always find ways of getting them illegally. That kid wanted to kill a bunch of people, and nothing short of a bullet or a jail cell would have stopped him. If he didnt get his hand gun legally, you can be sure he would have gotten one illegaly somewhere. His mind was set.

He claims he was "picked on" by his classmates. Maybe he was, I dont know. But if so, perhaps as a society we should examine his reasoning (even though it is crazy now), and teach our kids to be a bit more civil. I know when I went to school, kids were downright cruel. Granted, no one ever picked up a gun and started shooting, but there were other less deadly incidents. We may hate this guy for what he did, but perhaps we should all look at ourselves a bit and ask ourselves what as a society we could have done differantly to maybe prevent this.

You don't have to compare the US to Japan. How about comparing it to Germany, where there's a strong firearms and hunting culture, but also far stricter gun laws? You can own firearms in Germany. But the violent crime rate is far lower than in the US. And don't tell me they don't have as many psychos and nutjobs as you do, cos they do. I know cos I used to live there.

No one's challenging your riight to bear arms. I do question the right of psychos to also bear arms.




No, my friend. The problem is that a "readily identified nut", as you put it, was allowed to walk into a gun store and by a Glock as easily as he would a beer. If you can't put away your nutters (and the nutters are walking free all over the world), make sure they can't get their hands on guns. The US is the ONLY country in the developed world with such lax gun laws, and the country with the highest violent crime. You do the math. There's no point pointing at the Crips and the Aryans, when you are fostering a culture that's in love with firearms and violence.




Maybe in the movies. Fact is, the average citizen isn't ready to kill, and most times the criminal will take the gun off the guy and kill him with it.

Here in Glasgow, we have much more stabbings than shootings. Well, as they say those who knows, if you survive in Glasgow, you survive ANYWHERE.....
How many of you have heard of the Glasgow Smile???

A Glasgow smile (or Chelsea grin) is a nickname for the practice of cutting a victim's face from the edges of the mouth to the ears: the cut - or its scars - form an "extension" of what looks like a smile. Sometimes to further hurt or even kill the victim, he or she would then be stabbed or kicked, most notably in the stomach (or in case of kicking, the groin), so that the the face would be ripped apart when the victim screams. The practice originated in the Scottish city of Glasgow, which gave it its name. It also became popular in Chelsea, London (where it is known as a "Chelsea grin") and other areas of Britain, for gangs hoping to leave a message to rival gang members.
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Murders with firearms by country

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 South Africa: 31,918
#2 Colombia: 21,898
#3 Thailand: 20,032
#4 United States: 8,259
#5 Mexico: 3,589
#6 Zimbabwe: 598
#7 Germany: 384
#8 Belarus: 331
#9 Czech Republic: 213
#10 Ukraine: 173
#11 Poland: 166
#12 Canada: 165
#13 Costa Rica: 126
#14 Slovakia: 117
#15 Spain: 97
#16 Uruguay: 84
#17 Portugal: 84
#18 Lithuania: 83
#19 Bulgaria: 63
#20 United Kingdom: 62
#21 Australia: 59
#22 Hungary: 44
#23 Switzerland: 40
#24 Latvia: 30
#25 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 26
#26 Estonia: 21
#27 Moldova: 20
#28 Azerbaijan: 18
#29 Denmark: 14
#30 Ireland: 12
#31 Slovenia: 12
#32 New Zealand: 7

I really do believe you need to remove your head from your rectum and look around. The entire world, Internet and yes your beloved Sri Lanka and Germany is fostering this also, not just the US. Does it really matter if some nut uses a gun, knife or plane to commit mass murder in the name of some mental case babble cause?
Let keep blowing ourselves up in the market, lets keep flying into buildings, lets set gas off in subways, lets blow up a train, all for some moronic nut case cause real or imagined. Mommy had square nipples, daddy didn't take me fishing, Mrs Smiths' pie was stale..... lets get a gun, bomb or plane. The bottom line is the nut cases are taking over the world, and that's ok because if we do anything about it we may hurt their little feelings.

Maybe it's time for the sane people to take a stand and say enough is enough.

ALL the background checks do not show up a mental patients mental problems, that information does not show up. Bottom line, it's confidential between the mental patient and his doctor. The cops can't get it, the gun store can't get it. Only way it would ever show up is if the nut case was busted and had a record. Maybe it shouldn't be this way but it is, maybe it should be changed, maybe it should be mandatory for doctors to report these for back ground checks. But I'm sure the bleeding hearts, and ACLU will start crying about their rights. Hell, it's OK to be nuts, it's not OK to go aorund killing people.

It's just a worry that there could be many more out there like him.

Glasgow is renowned for it's knife crime. I myself have been threatened hundreds of times, no exaggeration.

Believe me Scott, the US doesn't have the corner market on nut cases. Far from it.

i would rather see this venue stick with modeling,and have the politics go somewhere else. we are never going to agree on some of these subjects and i think it just creates hard feelings
just my 2 cents worth as a member

Just got this from Yahoo news.......................


Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior who graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., with Cho in 2003, recalled that the South Korean immigrant almost never opened his mouth and would ignore attempts to strike up a conversation.

Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I mean when I say kids can be cruel. This kid might have been predisposed towards mental illness, but clearly society alienated him and added some fuel to the fire. Im not saying this is an excuse, because there is no excuse for this, but teaching our kids compassion and to be interested in other differances rather then laugh at them for being differant will hopefully prevent some of these people from going on a killing spree later in life. Same story for the kids from Columbine.

Just let us all send our thoughts and prayers to the stricken families in this time of grief. Also let us hope and pray that this won't happen again, ANYWHERE.
And close this thread, before someone say something and we'll have to deal with a war of words....
Remember this time it was in the US, next time, who knows where it might be......

Jake, everyone is being polite and respectful. The title is quite clear about its subject. If you don't want to read this, please don't. I have been quite interested in the viewpoints put forth, especially Spooky6 (David Blacker).

I don't mind this thread as long as it's kept nice and tidy.....
Terribly sorry for the choice of words here fellas.

I appreciate everyone on here being civil also. I just sometimes get a little rankled when others, American or other, make statements or have views that would lead to a infringement of my civil rights (2nd). To see what I mean, imagine if I made an argument that you would be better off if I took away your right to vote, or your right to a free press, or your right to worship in the manner you choose. Sure there are things that can be fixed or changed, but dont infringe on my rights to bear arms.

Strict Gun Laws work!!!

They worked for Hitler, Mao, Stalin,the current nut in North Korea, various dictators throughout history invoked some of the strictest gun laws...always worked out real good for them in controlling the population.

And with someone as astute and knowledgeable as Rosie O'Donnell promoting stricter gun control laws how on earth can any of us "commoners" (you know, the collectors and target shooters) stand in the way of a progressive society. I wanna be just like Sri Lanka where there's never any violent confrontation.

My 2cents
C.

I dont think this is about stricter gun control.. I think its about the warning signs and how they are interpreted for mental illness. This kid had some serious issues, and as its been already been put, mental illness does not show up on background checks. I lost my brother to suicide by gun after he bought a rifle, legally 2 months after a first attempt. A history of mental illness was never an issue at the time of the background check. Now, hindsight being what it is. What happens if someone steps in and tries to get him to seek help. If he refuses, does he get dragged to a shrink kicking and screaming, whats that going to do to his mental health??


Dave

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer
48 minutes ago



BLACKSBURG, Va. - Long before he boiled over, Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was pushed around and laughed at as a schoolboy in suburban Washington because of his shyness and the strange, mumbly way he talked, former classmates say.

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Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior who graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., with Cho in 2003, recalled that the South Korean immigrant almost never opened his mouth and would ignore attempts to strike up a conversation.

Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

Cho shot 32 people to death and committed suicide Monday in the deadliest one-man shooting rampage in modern U.S. history. The high school classmates' accounts add to the psychological portrait that is beginning to take shape, and could shed light on the video rant Cho mailed to NBC in the middle of his rampage at Virginia Tech.

In the often-incoherent video, the 23-year-old Cho portrays himself as persecuted and rants about rich kids.

"Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats," says Cho, who came to the U.S. at about age 8 in 1992 and whose parents work at a dry cleaners in suburban Washington. "Your golden necklaces weren't enough, you snobs. Your trust funds wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac wasn't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything."

In other developments Thursday:

Gov. Timothy Kaine announced the appointment of an independent panel to look into the tragedy and how authorities handled it. Police and university officials have been accused of missing warning signs in Cho's behavior and failing to safeguard the campus after the gunfire broke out. The panel will be led by former Virginia State Police superintendent Gerald Massengill and will also include former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge.

• University officials said that all of Cho's student victims would be awarded degrees posthumously, and that other students terrorized by the shootings might be allowed to end the semester immediately without consequences.

Among the victims of the massacre were two other Westfield High graduates: Reema Samaha and Erin Peterson. Both young women graduated from the high school last year. Police said it is not clear whether Cho singled them out.

Stephanie Roberts, 22, a member of Cho's graduating class at Westfield High, said she never witnessed anyone picking on Cho in high school.

"I just remember he was a shy kid who didn't really want to talk to anybody," she said. "I guess a lot of people felt like maybe there was a language barrier."

But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with Cho told her they recalled him getting picked on there.

"There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," Roberts said. "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."

Virginia Tech student Alison Heck said a suitemate of hers on campus — Christina Lilick — found a mysterious question mark scrawled on the dry erase board on her door. Lilick went to the same high school as Cho, according to Lilick's Facebook page. And Cho once scrawled a question mark on the sign-in sheet on the first day of a literature class, and other students came to know him as "the question mark kid."

"I don't know if she knew that it was him for sure," Heck said. "I do remember that that fall that she was being stalked and she had mentioned the question mark. And there was a question mark on her door."

Heck added: "She just let us know about it just in case there was a strange person walking around our suite."

Lilick could not immediately be located for comment, via e-mail or telephone.

Regan Wilder, 21, who attended Virginia Tech, high school and middle school with Cho, said she was in several classes with Cho in high school, including advanced-placement calculus and Spanish. She said he walked around with his head down, and almost never spoke. And when he did, it was "a real low mutter, like a whisper."

As part of an exam in Spanish class, students had to answer questions in Spanish on tape, and other students were so curious to know what Cho sounded like that they waited eagerly for the teacher to play his recording, she said. She said that on the tape, he did not speak confidently but did seem to know Spanish.

Wilder recalled high school teachers trying to get him to participate, but "he would only shrug his shoulders or he'd give like two-word responses, and I think it just got to the point where teachers just gave up because they realized he wasn't going to come out of the shell he was in, so they just kind of passed him over for the most part as time went on."

She said she was sure Cho probably was picked on in middle school, but so was everyone else. And it didn't seem as if English was the problem for him, she said. If he didn't speak English well, there were several other Korean students he could have reached out to for friendship, but he didn't, she said.

Wilder said Cho wasn't any friendlier in college, where "he always had that same damn blank stare, like glare, on his face. And I'd always try to make eye contact with him because I recognized the kid because I'd seen him for six years, but he'd always just look right past you like you weren't there."

Eleven people hurt in the attack remained hospitalized, at least one in serious condition.

Authorities on Wednesday disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho had been accused of sending unwanted messages to two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders and was pronounced a danger to himself. But he was released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.

Also, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and menacing, uncommunicative demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.

On Wednesday, NBC received a package containing a rambling and often incoherent 23-page written statement from Cho, 28 video clips and 43 photos — many of them showing Cho, in a military-style vest and backward baseball cap, brandishing handguns. A Postal Service time stamp reads 9:01 a.m. — between the two attacks on campus.

The package helps explain one mystery: where the gunman was and what he did during that two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire, at a high-rise dorm, and the second attack, at a classroom building.

"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," a snarling Cho says on video. "But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said Thursday that the material contained little they did not already know. Flaherty said he was disappointed that NBC decided to broadcast parts of it.

"I just hate that a lot of people not used to seeing that type of image had to see it," he said.

"I saw his picture on TV, and when I did I just got chills," said Kristy Venning, a junior from Franklin County, Va. "There's really no words. It shows he put so much thought into this and I think it's sick."

With a backlash developing against the media, Fox News said it would stop running the pictures, and other networks said they would severely limit their use.

"It has value as breaking news," said ABC News spokesman Jeffrey Schneider, "but then becomes practically pornographic as it is just repeated ad nauseam."

___

You guys mouthing off about gun control are missing the point here. this kid planned to kill people he hated. take away the gun, and this is the type of kid who would have built a bomb and maybe even killed more people. You know you only have to sign for amonium nitrite anymore, and diesel fuel is available anywhere. Anyone remember Oklahoma City??? Tell me he couldnt have chained the doors shut and broke a gas main and threw a match blowing up the entire dormatory. Would you blame the gas company for not securing the pipes better??? The information is all over the net on how to make this type of crap. This kid had everything planned out months in advance and he was going to kill people that day one way or another. The problem isnt the gun. the problem is everyone in this kids life failed him by not seeing the warning signs. Society failed him as well. And as a result of everyone who was involved in this kids life, we now have this tragedy to contend with. Casting blame at this point on anyone or anything though is pointless. The damage is done and 33 people are dead. The real thing to ask yourself is how we can prevent this from happening again? Like I said several times before, showing and teaching your kids some compassion is a start.

Hope I didnt step on anyones toes here. I wasnt trying to. I think everyone here has some valid points.

Gary

My point exactly, Gary.

This guy was sick and -- as we find out in today's news -- should never have been allowed to buy a gun following a court ruling. Someone screwed up and didn't enter him into the database as a mental health threat-to-others, so when they ran his background check for buying the guns, he came up clean.

It had nothing to do with our gun laws, Spooky. It had to do with a mistake in the system. Our current gun laws work fine in most places. With Cho, someone screwed the pooch.

BTW, we have the 2nd Amendment in this country because our founding fathers understood that an armed public will not be pushed around by a tyrant. Funny how our Republic has lasted this long with us all just rushing out and killing each other all the time (that's sarcasm, folks).

Thanks to IndyCopper for his input from law enforcement. So much propaganda is spread all over the world about what it is really like in the U.S. People see movies and television shows, read sensational rag newspapers, read moronic blog entries and think they know what we Americans are all about.

Less than 1% of guns used in crimes are bought at gun shows, Spooky. If you ever went to a U.S. gun show you'd find a bunch of guys, gals and even families out looking for sporting arms or collectibles, a lot of gun collectors, a lot of militaria collectors, a lot of historians. You also find a lot of serious shooters -- folks who are into historical re-enactments and competitions.

Gang-bangers, crack-heads and obvious psychos don't shop at gun shops or shows. Most buy their (usually) stolen iron out of the trunk of a car and they can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle because they learned marksmanship from a gangsta flick. That's why they shoot so many bullets and hit so many innocents -- they don't aim. They fear those of us they assume are armed. Ever hear of a drive-by on a skeet range or Single Action Shooting Society meeting? I thought not.

You're missing the point, Dave (in addition to being rude & offensive). Even if we disregard the fact that most (not all) of the violent material and gun culture in movies and the internet is imported into (yes it is my beloved) Sri Lanka and Germany from the US, that is the very reason you need to control who has acccess to firearms. Did you miss the fact that a plane can kill more people than a chainsaw, or that a gun can kill more kids in minutes than a baseball bat? Why do you think there's restriction on access to aircraft? Becaause it wouldn't have mattered if Bin Laden stormed the WTC with a molotov cocktail instead of a Boeing? How come you're willing to give up your rights to fly in a plane but not anywhere else? Apply the same logic, Dave. Guns in the wrong hands are dangerous. Make sure they're kept out of those hands. Locking up everybody who looks dangerous restricts even more personal rights than restricting access to guns.




Don't be silly, Dave. This wasn't a politically-motivated, nor terrorism-driven act. You're trying to compare apples with oranges.




So why not restrict that access to gun, bomb or plane? You've lost more people to violent gun crime over the past decade than you have to terrorist attack. You're willing to bomb Afghanistan and Iraq (which I think is a good idea, badly executed), but you aren't willing to control fireams???




Well, make sure the nutcases can't kill your children with guns then. If you've got a psycho in your home, you can't find him, and it takes time to cure or get rid of him, will you leave pistols lying around so that he can use 'em? C'mon, guys, do I need to explain this to y'all?




I think you guys should've said "enough" after Columbine, and after Ruby Ridge, and after David Koresh. it's not too late.




So take it out of the storekeeper's hands, take it out of the cops' hands too. Have a central registry for firearms permits, that will carry out stringent tests (including mental health), conduct training, and issue permit updates annually. A gun buyer has to then produce this permit at point of purchase, and if it isn't current, no gun. There are a multitude of ways this can be done efficiently, and they're all way better than raging at the lawyers, doctors, and cops.




Ever been to Sri Lanka, Creading? It's a lot safer than the US. I've been all over the world, from Bali to Beirut, and from Europe to North America, and almost all of the developed world's safer than the US, and they all have more gun control than you do, and many of them also have legal access to firearms. Since you seem a bit ignorant on Sri Lanka, lemme fill in. We've got a war on, and aalmost 90% of the violent gun deaths are related to this. Almost ALL the rest of it is gang hits between drug crews. Colombo's as safe a city as London, and a lot safer, I'll wager, than LA. So come on over. You might miss the guns, but you'll love everything else. I do.




I'm sure you're right, Bob, and I wasn't picking on gun shows. What you've said is true in Europe as well, where there are hunting clubs, gun stores, reenactment, etc. You may be correct that most guns used in crimes are bought on the black market, but where did that volume of weaponry originate? You guessed it -- legal gun stores. They were all once bought by your "serious shooter". Then sold on to someone or stolen. More restrictive gun laws will ensure fewer guns in society, and fewer guns mean less gun crime -- there's no getting away from it.

And I'm disappointed that when most advocates of the status quo find no reasonable argument for their viewpoint, they fall back on the 2nd ammendment, or start pointing at Hitler. No one's suggesting you stop gun ownership (like in the UK), just administrate it better. You owe it to your children. Is it more important that he knows he can buy a gun over the counter, or is it more important that he caan go to school without being shot at?

On a similar note, right now here in SL, there's a raging debate for and against federalism. There's a terrorist group (the LTTE) that is demanding a separate state for the Tamil minority, and a compromise seems to be a federal state within one country (sort of like Quebec). But whenever this is suggested, the hardline Sinhalese nationalists accuse the proponents of federalism of being unpatriotic or traitors for defying the constitution. Common sense calls for compromise to prevent further death and bloodshed, and there are many grey shades between the white of central government and the black of separation. I feel it's the same with the US and the 2nd amendment on the right to bear arms. You don't have to have free access to firearms in order to bear arms. There are many models of gun control, but you haave to be willing to compromise.

As I said before, I love guns and admire the US, and I will not say anymore on this subject. But I'd be thankful if you could debate the subject without making suggestions on what I should do with various parts of my anatomy, or make disparaging remarks about my country. I think we're all mature enough (many of you are older than me) to debate the laws of a land without attacking the land or the individual.

I am keeping an eye on this thread, posting occasionally. Like other members have said it is technically a current event but everyone is staying pretty civil and voicing their opinions so I don't have a problem and hope no one else does either.

Keep it civil.
Thanks,
Shaun

I would hope that, given the loss of life, all would keep it civil. I'm lurking on this thread, interested to hear the comments, but refraining from commenting.

My prayers are with the families of those affected.

Andy

I do think this article should remain ,regardless of modelling topic .

This is no political rant

We are constantly aware of the problem through our media outlets
Front page today 20/4/07 ,our newspaper the "Courier mail" in Qld Australia shows the face of the gunmen over the whole page pointing a semi automatic.

We sincerely regret the loss of life to people who are our future.

We too-did have a tragic event ouselves when we went through the early 90's where our famed killer "martin bryant "went out and killed 35 people.
35 including babies.
What shocked me the most what this person did.

There was a women with 2 kids like I'm talking infant and 2 year old child.
When he was on the shooting rampage throught Port Arthur"tourist site" of a Prison in Tasmania
The mother and 2 children hid behind a tree .
He walked around and shot the mother and 2 children .
Now this is a sick person!!! .
This person is the same as the sicko that went out and killed the people at VT.

The problem we have is Tasmanian government of correctional services has to preserve his life in a prison within a prison in Tasmania Wheras the sicko at VT did us a favour and topped himself .

After this incident the Australian government decided on the gun buy back scheme .
I was a registered gun holder of a M1 Garand semi auto rifle .
It would have been a better rifle to use than the SLR 7.62MM RIFLE I used in the army.
I was not happy with the government decision when they brought out these new laws .I abided by the law and handed my rifle in and made double what I paid for.
In hindsight now .It was the best thing they ever did .

I agree in the fact the the gun liscencing should be on a national register in the US .

I certainly hope after this incident the US Government can make some
improved changes to reduce losers like this do not get the ability to hold firearms .

My 2 cents worth

Michael

I'm not gonna feed anything to the discussion about the gun laws in the big country in the west, it's not my business to do so. But, doesn't the right to bare arms have something to do with the fear of another british attack from back in the day, but it was never amended?
I only hope that the two camps in this battle over these laws can meet in the middle, saying enough is enough, we have to solve and settle this once and for all.....
Sorry for any inconvenience folks.

You call it rude and offensive- I call it straight forward and truth full. Maybe it's a geographic thing. But I'm not known for too much feather dusting with BS or playing smoke and mirror word games.




Lets get real here.... what's the difference between one nut case with a bomb blowing himself up and killing 32 innocent people in a market , and one nut case with a gun killing 32 innocent people on campus? You can call it apples, you can call it oranges, you can call it what ever you like... I call it 2 nut cases with a real or imaginary cause killing 32 innocent people, which is called Mass Murder in my book, not "martyrdom" as in THEIR minds and the "Cultural Differences" BS don't hold water. . Feel free to add any smoke and mirrors, I'll still stand by that statement It doesn't take a team or politics to cause terrorism. Just 1 nut case with a cause. Case in point- The nut case sending chemicals in envelopes after 911 and the string of copy cats, tell me they came with a full deck. The nut case sending letter bombs way before 911 was even thought of. He sure had all his ducks in a row. Maybe we should stop access to envelopes, stamps and the post office. Did the Canadian Gun Laws stop the nut case from shooting people at Franks' school? I bet that guy had a full seabag. Ask Frank if he felt a little terror that day. Again the constant remains... NUT CASE with a real or imaginary cause, doesn't matter the device used to kill innocent people is. Doesn't matter what the cause is. Doesn't matter the number of dead. Doesn't matter the location. The common denominator is NUT CASE with a real or imaginary cause.
Again it doesn't take a team or politics to cause terrorism. Just 1 nut with a cause, something I feel you are not grasping. Take two nut-cases with a similar cause, put them together you get what? Call it apples, call it oranges, I call it a major problem, and how do they get together... they don't even have to meet each other face to face these days, or in some dark corner, easiest way is the Internet, been to "you tube" or "my-space" lately? and I'm not talking about looking for model related topics or old war films. The constant here is "Nut Cases with a real or imaginary cause" and a "can you top this mentality", not politics. Have you read any of your spam emails lately???? Guess what.. there REALLY are people who actually believe them.



WE lose more people to drunk drivers every day. Why not ban automobiles or roads? Prohibition didn't work, taking their licenses doesn't work, they still manage to get drunk and drive and kill, what makes you think more gun laws are going to work? Every NORMAL thinking mind knows it illegal to drink and drive. Guess what --- every NORMAL thinking mind knows it's illegal to kill.



Sorry Dave, I work at the nut house, and I don't bring work home. Nor do I date the patients after work.