but stricter control has worked in the UK since Dunblane......there are around 60 gun murders a year in the UK

..in the US, 9,000 a year are killed - ie virtually the equivalent of a Virginia Tech each and every day....

the conclusion to draw from these two factual statements appears to most non-US participants here to be self-evident...


.

Neil, I'm glad you feel safer with your gun laws. I feel safer with my legally owned guns.

Frankly, I could care less what the Australian PM or any other non-American thinks about U.S. guns laws. They don't vote or pay taxes here. Y'all do whatever you want in your perfect little countries.

So far -- rather surprisingly to cynics like me -- our Congressional leaders are not talking about more gun control. They know gun owners pay attention and we vote.

The bottom line is that Mr. Cho, because of his mental health problems, never should have been able to buy a gun in the first place. This is not a gun issue, it's a mental health and court-order enforcement issue.


TO MODERATOR SHAUN: Buddy, you might as well shut this thread down. It seems like everyone is just chasing their tails at this point. We can all agree that what happened at Virginia Tech is a tragedy. I don't think we'll never agree on what would have prevented it.

Thanks to everyone who shared their opinions.

A question: what was the murder rate before Dunblane (whatever that is)?

And a note: The reality is that most gun murders in the US take place in inner-city slums, where gang members shooting each other is a normal daily occurrence. The law means nothing in those areas. Everywhere else in the US is just as safe as anywhere else in the world.

Another note: No gun control advocates come from these high-crime areas. All of them are soft people who grew up in nice neighborhoods where there is hardly crime or violence-which ought to tell you something.

Gday Tom
Try a quick search on it. Should tell you all you need to know.
Cheers
Brad

Yes, and it will tell you the crime was committed by another mentally ill person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_Massacre

Come on. And Martin Bryant in Australia was an idiot and copycat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre

I cannot believe that major laws curtailing gun ownership were passed because of the acts of these anal orifices.

It seems strange to me that since Dunblane and the law against handguns, we still have shootings. I doubt that they make the news in the states, but we have gang style shootings here as well - these are with illegal handguns, cos all handguns are now illegal. Seven teenagers shot so far this year in London . Not a lot but US standards (not the right word, but i hope you know what i mean), but still 7 lives needlessly gone, so gun control is not the answer. Teaching little ingrates a decent sense of right and wrong, not glamourizing violence (sorry hollywood) and less bleeding heart liberal nonsense about care in the community for nutters would stop the problems.


I did say i would not join in, but needed to get this off my chest.

My thoughts and prayers are still with the families of the dead and wounded. I hope that VT and the stundents can pull through and carry on leading normal peaceful and fulfilling lives after such a sad event.

Andy

The point is I know the difference between being rude and straightforward. I guess you don't, Dave. And it's not a geographic thing, so stop trying to excuse being a prick (is that straightforward enough for you ?). I know lots of Yanks who can get a point across without using bodily orifices (either in speech or to speak through).




OK, lemme explain it to you, mate. The difference is there are laws against terrorism which work in general to prevent suicide bombers (and they are mostly effective). How many people have you had blow themselves up in an American market in the last ten years? Now how many school shootings have you had? Wanna guess which laws are working?




No laws can be 100% effective. But the laws must be there. Laws REDUCE crime. Peope run red lights so should we remove traffic lights? People rob banks, so should we make stealing legal? Women get raped so should we say it's OK? How many school shootings have you had in Canada in comparison to the US?




Why are you talking about terrorism? This is regular violent crime, and the gun laws are making it easy. Let's not find slogans like terrorism to hide behind.




I'm an ex-soldier who's fought in two wars against terrorism (one communist, one ethnic). I know exactly what terrorism is.




Oh really? Tell that to the parents at Virginia Tech. Tell that to the Israeli professor who survived the Holocaust just to die in Virginia, shot by a psycho who bought a gun over the counter. He fired 225 rounds (count 'em). Almost the loadout of an infantryman. Tell it to the parents that the numbers don't matter. Your insensitivity is astounding, Dave.




Yeah yeah, blame it on the internet, you tube, spam mail, bin laden, little green men, whatever. The "major probem" is under your nose -- lax gun laws. Keep the guns out of the psycho's hands. It's simple.




My 4-year-old could come up with a better argument. Don't be absurd. Banning cars is comparable to banning guns, not tightening gun laws. No one's suggested banning guns, just controlling them better. Would you be OK with drivers not having to pass a driving test to drive in the USA?




Precisely. But you STILL have laws to govern the road. Isn't it illegal to have an open bottle of alcohol in a car (I know it's so in Canada)? Why's that, Dave? To make it easier to drink and drive? Don't you think road rules reduce accidents? So why not gun laws to reduce access to guns by people who shouldn't have them?




I hope that's a joke, Dave, and that you got my point about making sure guns stay out of reach of the sick.

Bob I'm not taking sides here. Just pointing out that it was a far from insignificant happening, and that a quick search would reveal that, instead of being dismissed whilst in the middle of Tom making his point.




Since you mentioned Australia, I can say that we do not have the gun mentality of elsewhere, and therefore the restrictions/laws that were altered/enforced since, affected a serious minority, rightly or wrongly.
I feel safe knowing no-one is carrying a gun, concealed or otherwise, but I'm not judging here. Different countries, different rules and decisions.

My sympathies to the families who lost loved ones.But just a point gents when quotes are made as to how many people are killed by gun crime per year etc,it`s always given in figures .Surely a percentage is a better guide .The population of the USA is much larger than most of the countries supported on this site.Hence more people are available to commit crime,but as a percentage we would get a more realistic appraisal.
I have never owned a full bore fire arm only air weapons for target shooting,which I enjoy .But here in the UK that seems to be comming under threat due to idiots taking pot shots at passers by.It just seems to me that we let mentally unstable people gain access to fire arms. Then punish the law abiding fire arms holder.

Well after reading most of this I’ll state my opinion.
As a gun collector, target shooter, and Hunter I don’t want to see stricter gun control. More gun controls will just make it harder for us gun owners who have no intrust in going on a killing spree. Criminal would still have there guns.
Heck you can go out and buy the guns that are banned in this country. Its illegal but possible. Just costs a bit more and know one cares about doing a background search.

Plus I must agree with a comment made by Grumpy awhile back. If more people in the building would have had guns things may have been deferent.
I’m a strong believer that guns help to stop criminals. I live out here in the country side where most people have guns. A persons less likely to do something stupid when he knows more people could be carrying guns and stop him.

I get tired of hearing the gun control people bring up these issues every time something like this happens.

Let me put another spin on this. I was a deputy sheriff in a remote area where I live. My closest backup was sometimes 30-40 minutes away. I can not count the number of times that when I got into something that I could not talk myself out of I had several normal citizens standing by me WITH GUNS. These people were never asked for any help but I damn sure did appreciate it when the arrived. I can safely say that I would be dead without the help of average everyday people that happened to be carrying guns. Some of them had permits and others did not. Did I honestly care and check each individual for a gun permit-NO. I thanked them for their help and they went on there way back to tending their ranches. I will never have a problem with an ordinary citizen carrying a gun. I do have a big problem with some phsycho getting ahold of a gun and making it look like everyone who carries is evil in some way. I will definetly agree with the statements others have made. If someone wants to kill others and themselves they will find a way to do it. We had an incident where a moron decided to try to kill his family and himself. Did he have a gun? No he had a traffic flare taped to a five gallon propane bottle. As soon as my fellow officers got the family out of the house he lit the flare and opened the bottle. He was blown into so many pieces that there was not enough left to bury. My fellow officers escaped the house with burns over 75% of their bodies. They are alive today. It would have been just as easy for the screwball in Virginia to do the same thing. Maybe some people need to stop trying to blame the gun for everything and get into a big group hug with Rosie O'Donnell.

Edit: I am not taking a poke any anybody in particular who has posted in this thread. I have some some strong feelings on this and have tried to stay out of it as you will always have two side who will absolutely never agree on the issue.

Dave, I'm afraid I'll be named Pope before you and I ever agree.
And that's all I'll say on this matter.

I think we have spent enough time on this topic. Let's all go help the new guy with airbrush or decal problems.
Thanks for the civil discussion.

Shaun