I was in D 2-2 in October of 1981. I was stationed with A 2-29 Inf. across the street in Harmony Church in 1994. By then the barracks had been torn down and was now part of a Bradley course.
Brian
Soldier Stories
Served in the military? Discuss your time and experiences here.
Served in the military? Discuss your time and experiences here.
Hosted by Dave Willett
New Army Combat Uniform Cost
BSPRU
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 09:21 AM UTC
18Bravo
Member Since: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:35 PM UTC
Hmmm... Close enough in time. We could've had the same Bn Commander, and might even have had the same Drill Sergeants, as they often got tasked out to other companies within a battalion when needed. The scariest one was a big dude named Washington. The one I remember most, because he had a habit of telling us his entire name, was Sergeant First Class Allen D. Young. Never forget that dude.
Remember having to negotiate the monkey bars before entering the chow hall? By the time I became a Drill Sergeant, you couldn't (legally, anyway) smoke them 1/2 before or 1 hour after chow. That took away 4 1/2 hours of smoke per day.
Remember having to negotiate the monkey bars before entering the chow hall? By the time I became a Drill Sergeant, you couldn't (legally, anyway) smoke them 1/2 before or 1 hour after chow. That took away 4 1/2 hours of smoke per day.
Mech-Maniac
Member Since: April 16, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 05:20 AM UTC
The USN also has new uniforms, they pretty much look like that urban camo junk that you buy for paintballing, dont understand why they had to be blue, as it might not help people looking for you if you fall overboard :-) 
But then again, I dont even know if they would wear those on deck.
http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=22519
But then again, I dont even know if they would wear those on deck.http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=22519
Hollowpoint
Member Since: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 06:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The USN also has new uniforms, they pretty much look like that urban camo junk that you buy for paintballing, dont understand why they had to be blue, as it might not help people looking for you if you fall overboard :-)
http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=22519
Good grief, now the Navy is getting pixelated, too.
HA! :-) :-)
jRatz
Member Since: March 06, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 08:12 AM UTC
You know that Navy "major" (yeah I know, LCDR) is gonna look real great with a bullet hole in that shiny thing right over her heart ... and I'll never understand how the USMC let the Navy wear their cap -- it was not designed to have hair sticking out all over the place ...
Not that I have to worry about it anymore -- my "uniform costs" are related to consumption of beer & stretchability of my t-shirts these days .... but many of the cleaners down around Ft Bragg are complaining they'll go out of business due to loss of sewing & cleaning ... IIRC, a dozen or so have already ....
There will probably be political pressure to bring back sew-ons ... you know by watching the BRAC process that the sole reason the military exists is to support the local civilian economy ...
Yeah, as an officer, I paid for all my uniforms - that $300 didn't last long after 1969 ... and we can "complain" about the cost, but it's not just in the changes by Army ... I know that as a staff puke, I wore uniforms until threadbare and took pseudo pride in how "worn" I looked, but when I got Battalion(O5) and Group(O6) command, I replaced everything and kept my appearance up -- because I represented some hundreds of soldiers and had to set both the standard and the example, internally and externally ... and I was darn proud to do so ....
It only hurts when they take something really useful out of the clothing bag .... like the British sweaters or the old wool shirts ....
John
Not that I have to worry about it anymore -- my "uniform costs" are related to consumption of beer & stretchability of my t-shirts these days .... but many of the cleaners down around Ft Bragg are complaining they'll go out of business due to loss of sewing & cleaning ... IIRC, a dozen or so have already ....
There will probably be political pressure to bring back sew-ons ... you know by watching the BRAC process that the sole reason the military exists is to support the local civilian economy ...
Yeah, as an officer, I paid for all my uniforms - that $300 didn't last long after 1969 ... and we can "complain" about the cost, but it's not just in the changes by Army ... I know that as a staff puke, I wore uniforms until threadbare and took pseudo pride in how "worn" I looked, but when I got Battalion(O5) and Group(O6) command, I replaced everything and kept my appearance up -- because I represented some hundreds of soldiers and had to set both the standard and the example, internally and externally ... and I was darn proud to do so ....
It only hurts when they take something really useful out of the clothing bag .... like the British sweaters or the old wool shirts ....
John
LemonJello
Member Since: January 29, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 03:48 PM UTC
A bunch of copycats, that's what we've got.
I have to say, I've really grown accustomed to the new "digies" we wear. The only other cost Marines have is getting the name tapes made and sewn on...the army and it's patches is a mystery to me.
I was happy to get the new pattern goretex before this trip, it may not be desert colors, but it's not the old woodland pattern.
That annual uniform allowance is pretty nice. Doesn't cover what I have to get, but it's better than nothing.
I have to say, I've really grown accustomed to the new "digies" we wear. The only other cost Marines have is getting the name tapes made and sewn on...the army and it's patches is a mystery to me.
I was happy to get the new pattern goretex before this trip, it may not be desert colors, but it's not the old woodland pattern.
That annual uniform allowance is pretty nice. Doesn't cover what I have to get, but it's better than nothing.
thathaway3
Member Since: September 10, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:23 PM UTC
It's all a cultural thing. I will never understand why the Marine Corps insists on rolling their sleeves up inside out. Not only does it expose the NON patterned inside of the sleeve defeating the purpose of the camo in the first place, but if it needs to be quickly changed to the sleeves down position, say if you're going to the field or getting into an aircraft, you can't just give the cuff one nice tug to have the sleeves down. I will NEVER be convinced that the only reason the Marines do it this way is simply to be different. Logic cannot be applied to that choice.
And talk all you want to about sew ons on the Army uniform, which I'll admit CAN get a little busy, the concept of having to PIN on a bright metal rank insignia every time you prep a uniform for wear, and then have to take that shiny rank off to go to the field or to send it to the cleaners simply mysties me. Obviously you can't wear shiny insignia in the field. So the obvious answer is SUBDUED. It can't be "detected" from a distance allowing a "sniper" to figure out who's in charge, nor does it "protect" an officer in any way. From what? If you're captured you have to identify your rank. Sew on the subdued rank and then leave it on for the next 3-5 years. MUCH more practical.
I once had a Marine tell me, "you don't need the insignia for your men to know you're an officer." Works for me. If you NEVER leave your platoon AO :-) :-) :-)
It's not for YOUR men, it's for others who may have no idea who you are.
But don't mis-understand. While I spent 30 years in the Army, I have nothing but the deepest respect for the USMC. There are a whole lot MORE things about them that I wish the US Army would copy.
Tom
And talk all you want to about sew ons on the Army uniform, which I'll admit CAN get a little busy, the concept of having to PIN on a bright metal rank insignia every time you prep a uniform for wear, and then have to take that shiny rank off to go to the field or to send it to the cleaners simply mysties me. Obviously you can't wear shiny insignia in the field. So the obvious answer is SUBDUED. It can't be "detected" from a distance allowing a "sniper" to figure out who's in charge, nor does it "protect" an officer in any way. From what? If you're captured you have to identify your rank. Sew on the subdued rank and then leave it on for the next 3-5 years. MUCH more practical.
I once had a Marine tell me, "you don't need the insignia for your men to know you're an officer." Works for me. If you NEVER leave your platoon AO :-) :-) :-)
It's not for YOUR men, it's for others who may have no idea who you are.
But don't mis-understand. While I spent 30 years in the Army, I have nothing but the deepest respect for the USMC. There are a whole lot MORE things about them that I wish the US Army would copy.
Tom
18Bravo
Member Since: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 07:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It's all a cultural thing. I will never understand why the Marine Corps insists on rolling their sleeves up inside out. Not only does it expose the NON patterned inside of the sleeve defeating the purpose of the camo in the first place, but if it needs to be quickly changed to the sleeves down position, say if you're going to the field or getting into an aircraft, you can't just give the cuff one nice tug to have the sleeves down. I will NEVER be convinced that the only reason the Marines do it this way is simply to be different. Logic cannot be applied to that choice.
Tom
In the mid 80's the Berlin Brigade Comander authorized, or rather stipulated, that BDU sleeves be rolled the Marine way. He was purported to have said he didn't like to take the time rolling them the Army way.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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entire network: 12,596 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 07:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually, Natick Labs was doing the research for the USMC and ACU pixilated patterns at the same time. The Marines just finished their development process more quickly due to a smaller budget. Much like their decision to field the MOLLE before the Army felt it was prefected.A bunch of copycats, that's what we've got.
I have to say, I've really grown accustomed to the new "digies" we wear. The only other cost Marines have is getting the name tapes made and sewn on...the army and it's patches is a mystery to me.
I was happy to get the new pattern goretex before this trip, it may not be desert colors, but it's not the old woodland pattern.
That annual uniform allowance is pretty nice. Doesn't cover what I have to get, but it's better than nothing.
I wonder if they teach Marines why they decided to do the name tag thing post Desert Storm? Most 2nd Armor Division soldiers know.
Max_Fischer
Member Since: January 02, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 08:30 AM UTC
That looks alot like the Tiger Stripe Camo used in Vietnam ?
:[]--
The Iraqi Forces right now, Do they ALL wear the 6 colored Desert Camo?
I got all my airsoft gear in today,
$350 for Molle Vest 4 pouches and 2 Utility pouches and thats only for the Vest
sopmod6
Member Since: March 31, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:34 AM UTC
$350 for just that set up? You got RIPPED.
A MOLLE FLC set up for Infantry soldiers cost less than that sans back pack.
A MOLLE FLC set up for Infantry soldiers cost less than that sans back pack.
18Bravo
Member Since: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 02:55 AM UTC
Yeah, MOLLE's go for as little as $15 on ebay, while the SPEAR is more in line with what you paid. In looking, there seem to be a lot of "combat losses" on ebay from time to time.
thathaway3
Member Since: September 10, 2004
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 02:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In the mid 80's the Berlin Brigade Comander authorized, or rather stipulated, that BDU sleeves be rolled the Marine way. He was purported to have said he didn't like to take the time rolling them the Army way.
There's NO doubt it does take an extra few minutes to roll them the "Army" way and it can be tricky to get them to look smooth. But I still say that not only does it look better, especially fin that there isn't that noticeable white sleeve, but they can be pulled down if required with one good tug.
It's interesting that a field commander would make such a decision. Technically he should not have been able to specify that, as AR 670-1 dictates the way sleeves should be rolled, and doesn't delegate down to commanders the authority to make that kind of change. Guess they forgot to tell him :-) :-)
Tom
Max_Fischer
Member Since: January 02, 2004
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yeah, MOLLE's go for as little as $15 on ebay, while the SPEAR is more in line with what you paid. In looking, there seem to be a lot of "combat losses" on ebay from time to time.
I didnt get ripped off
The MOLLE vest itself cost me $150, and its the Real MOLLE not that cheap junk, and each Mag pouch cost me 30 and the Utility ones cost me 40, and the Radio pouch would have cost me 20 but i got it for free.
Along with a CamelBak Hydration Pouch which cost me 60 (going to order tonight)
Ill be sure to post some pictures up when i get everything
BSPRU
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 05:53 AM UTC
The Army started experimenting with Digital pattern uniforms in the 1970's. They came out with the dual-tex uniform in 1979. This picture was taken at the Quartermaster museum in 2001.
The canadians then developed their camouflage . Then the Marines. The Army followed.
Here is a history of digi camouflage.
[url]http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm[url]
The canadians then developed their camouflage . Then the Marines. The Army followed.
Here is a history of digi camouflage.
[url]http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm[url]
BSPRU
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 05:59 AM UTC
http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm the link again
sopmod6
Member Since: March 31, 2005
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 07:02 AM UTC
Official MOLLE vests as manufactured by SDS (Specialty Defense Systems) for the US military don't cost that much, even when bought through civilian suppliers. Ya, you got ripped.
Now if you got HSGI, Paraclete, London Bridge or even SOTECH MOLLE stuff, for that price,I can believe, but that stuff isn't general issued to US troops.
Btw, if you want some real high speed gear and IBA's let me know. I've got gear out the wazoo.
Arnold-Playing airsoft since 1984.
Now if you got HSGI, Paraclete, London Bridge or even SOTECH MOLLE stuff, for that price,I can believe, but that stuff isn't general issued to US troops.
Btw, if you want some real high speed gear and IBA's let me know. I've got gear out the wazoo.
Arnold-Playing airsoft since 1984.
Max_Fischer
Member Since: January 02, 2004
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 07:44 AM UTC
Well aint that some shi*
Everyone said i was getting a good deal, and esp. since i was getting it from BDS Tactical and BlackHawk, from my understaning the one of the best gear providers.
Do you have any other gear you want to sell to me, PM me
Everyone said i was getting a good deal, and esp. since i was getting it from BDS Tactical and BlackHawk, from my understaning the one of the best gear providers.
Do you have any other gear you want to sell to me, PM me
sopmod6
Member Since: March 31, 2005
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 09:05 AM UTC
If you want good gear at great prices, check out the following sites:
Optactical.com
Entrygear.com
Diamondback Tactical
I've bought loads of stuff from these guys, and nothing but GREAT service.
Btw, BHI stuff is now made in my moms homeland of Vietnam. I have some stuff from them, but the rest of my stuff is from Homegrown USA companies. Bar none, the best gear is still made here in the US. Some of the companies I mentioned are owned by former SpesOps guys.
Optactical.com
Entrygear.com
Diamondback Tactical
I've bought loads of stuff from these guys, and nothing but GREAT service.
Btw, BHI stuff is now made in my moms homeland of Vietnam. I have some stuff from them, but the rest of my stuff is from Homegrown USA companies. Bar none, the best gear is still made here in the US. Some of the companies I mentioned are owned by former SpesOps guys.
LemonJello
Member Since: January 29, 2004
entire network: 177 Posts
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 01:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextActually, Natick Labs was doing the research for the USMC and ACU pixilated patterns at the same time. The Marines just finished their development process more quickly due to a smaller budget. Much like their decision to field the MOLLE before the Army felt it was prefected.A bunch of copycats, that's what we've got.
I have to say, I've really grown accustomed to the new "digies" we wear. The only other cost Marines have is getting the name tapes made and sewn on...the army and it's patches is a mystery to me.
I was happy to get the new pattern goretex before this trip, it may not be desert colors, but it's not the old woodland pattern.
That annual uniform allowance is pretty nice. Doesn't cover what I have to get, but it's better than nothing.
I wonder if they teach Marines why they decided to do the name tag thing post Desert Storm? Most 2nd Armor Division soldiers know.
When we first made the change, I was surprised that we were first. Usually the Corps seems to be about a generation behind the Army with fielding new gear, it always used to feel like we were getting hand-me-downs from our bigger brother.
I joined up after Desert Storm, I thought name tapes were always used. There's a reason behind them beyond knowing the last name of whoever's wearing them? I'd love to learn that, sir.
MOLLE...well, I'm not a big fan of it, but I wear it when I have to. Most guys just hang the pouches off their body armor and don't use the LBV. The new ILBE packs are nice.
Re: Rolling sleeves up. Funny how the different sevices look at that. I always thought the Army/AIr Force way seemed like way too much work, just put on your blouse and roll the sleeves. Anytime you're going to the field, they're rolled down. Heck, my last tour in Afghanistan, I had the nicest tanned wrists around. Where I am now, I'm working on a nice farmer tan, I haven't had my sleeves rolled up this much on a deployment since I was with the 24th MEU back in 97.
There's no logic to it, we just roll ours this way to be different. Tradition, maybe?
Could someone give this old jarhead a quick & dirty class on army patches?
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 07:47 PM UTC
The Army method of rolling up the sleeves started around 1982 or so, shortly after the introduction of the BDUs. I recall seeing a DF or Disposition Form (old school memo format) calling it the 2nd Army Method. Don't know if that was the true original of the folding method though.
The reason was twofold. First, the camouflage pattern remained on the outside making the overall appearance look more professional.
Secondly, it made the sleeves quicker to pull down in case of NBC attack. Although I tend to wonder why the sleeves would be up in an area in danger of NBC attacks.
Edit: BTW, I enlisted as a CEV crewman. I went to basic at Ft. LostintheWoods.
The reason was twofold. First, the camouflage pattern remained on the outside making the overall appearance look more professional.
Secondly, it made the sleeves quicker to pull down in case of NBC attack. Although I tend to wonder why the sleeves would be up in an area in danger of NBC attacks.
Quoted Text
Army patches started during WW1. The patches helped identify members of divisions from one another.Could someone give this old jarhead a quick & dirty class on army patches?
Edit: BTW, I enlisted as a CEV crewman. I went to basic at Ft. LostintheWoods.
18Bravo
Member Since: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2006 - 08:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
In the mid 80's the Berlin Brigade Comander authorized, or rather stipulated, that BDU sleeves be rolled the Marine way. He was purported to have said he didn't like to take the time rolling them the Army way.
It's interesting that a field commander would make such a decision. Technically he should not have been able to specify that, as AR 670-1 dictates the way sleeves should be rolled, and doesn't delegate down to commanders the authority to make that kind of change. Guess they forgot to tell him :-) :-)
Tom
Maybe they did, but I had a few occasions to have to speak to MG Griffin, and he seemed the sort who would have said, "So what are they gonna do, bend my dogtags?"
As I said, I don't know the real reason, but I know that it was strictly enforced-sleeves went up on a certain day (1st day of spring perhaps?) and came down on a certain day, whether there was a blizzard or not. This only applied in garrison though. If you were on wall patrol, sleeves were always down. But if someone forgot to use common sense and change the uniform of the day, and field jacket and gloves were not authorized, you stood a good chance of freezing your ass off. If you want to see some real AR 670-1 travesties though, you should check out my Afghanistan onlibne photos. Most were authorized by SOCOM though. (maybe not the Suck Meter tab over our other ones)
LemonJello
Member Since: January 29, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 11:07 AM UTC
I understand that the patches are used to identify which division/unit someone belongs to, and I can grasp the significance of the Ranger, Airborne and SF tabs, but the whole "patch on this shoulder is for the current unit, different patch on the other is ???
I've always liked our pin-on rank. At promotion, you just pop the old rank off, pin the new on. Nice and easy. My company surprised me that way when I was promoted to sergeant. We had just gotten out of the field and at formation, they called me forward, read my promotion warrant and pinned my new rank on. I left home a corporal on a Monday and the next time my wife saw me on Saturday, I was a segeant. Then, at least in my experience, you give all your old chevrons for luck to one of your junior Marines.
I've always liked our pin-on rank. At promotion, you just pop the old rank off, pin the new on. Nice and easy. My company surprised me that way when I was promoted to sergeant. We had just gotten out of the field and at formation, they called me forward, read my promotion warrant and pinned my new rank on. I left home a corporal on a Monday and the next time my wife saw me on Saturday, I was a segeant. Then, at least in my experience, you give all your old chevrons for luck to one of your junior Marines.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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entire network: 12,596 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 03:52 PM UTC
Right sleeve patch is formerly called the SSI-FWTS or Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service. More commonly called the "combat patch". Just a traditional thing used to identify combat veterans and show which unit they served with. They were rare through the 80s, but now commonplace. So commonplace that those without look out of place.
Incidentily, if you are authorized to wear more than one, you can wear whichever one you chose and there could be a different one on each of your uniforms if you chose to do so. You can also not wear one if you don't want to.
The combat patch is more of a pride/show off thing. So much so that many National Guard and Reserve units will wear the patch of the active army division when they deploy in that active division's area of operation while in theater in lieu of their own unit or state's true patch.
This is more of a attitude towards showing off an active division's patch (more recognizable) than pride in their real unit.
Incidentily, if you are authorized to wear more than one, you can wear whichever one you chose and there could be a different one on each of your uniforms if you chose to do so. You can also not wear one if you don't want to.
The combat patch is more of a pride/show off thing. So much so that many National Guard and Reserve units will wear the patch of the active army division when they deploy in that active division's area of operation while in theater in lieu of their own unit or state's true patch.
This is more of a attitude towards showing off an active division's patch (more recognizable) than pride in their real unit.
LemonJello
Member Since: January 29, 2004
entire network: 177 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 05:53 PM UTC
OK, now I'm tracking with the patches. Funny, the only patch I've got is the old WWI "indian head" patch that 6th Marines wore as part of the AEF. Other than the fourregerre on our service and dress uniforms, you can't really tell one Marine from another, unit-wise.
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