guys i recently bought a bottle of paint and the lady at stc told me it was a lacquer type but from the looks of her face i'm not so sure that she's 100% sure bout it but i reckon gunze only makes acrylics and lacquers am i ryt?
also purchased a lacquer thinner on it and it wwas kinda thick for its consistency...is that really like that?
lastly i NEED ur help coz this is the first tym i'm gonna use a lacquer for a final coat. any advice...coz i tried it on a scrap kit by brushing it and it kinda ate the acrylic paint... #:-)
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gunze lacquer
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 03:22 AM UTC
Bull
Member Since: November 18, 2003
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 06:30 AM UTC
Hi Flex,
Gunze produces only lacquer and acrylic paints. The bottles with the "handle" on top are the lacquers. To my knowledge, Gunze only produces one kind of thinner, known as Mr. Color Thinner, which can be used for both Gunze lacquers and acrylics. I've never tried brushing Gunze lacquers, but I've been told that it is possible although seldom done(as it does have a tendency to eat anything under it). For brushing, the enamels are still the best, especially Humbrol. Nothing beats airbrushing Gunze lacquers. The finish is smooth and semi-gloss, lending itself well to decaling. Hope this helps.
Gunze produces only lacquer and acrylic paints. The bottles with the "handle" on top are the lacquers. To my knowledge, Gunze only produces one kind of thinner, known as Mr. Color Thinner, which can be used for both Gunze lacquers and acrylics. I've never tried brushing Gunze lacquers, but I've been told that it is possible although seldom done(as it does have a tendency to eat anything under it). For brushing, the enamels are still the best, especially Humbrol. Nothing beats airbrushing Gunze lacquers. The finish is smooth and semi-gloss, lending itself well to decaling. Hope this helps.
GIBeregovoy
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 10:26 AM UTC
Gunze has "two" (note the quotation marks) thinners. One is the Mr. Color Thinner (the one used for the Mr. Color paint) the other is the Levelling Thinner (which I think - not sure - is used for Mr. Putty and Mr. Surfacer).
Gunze lacquers are the safest lacquers - but the thinner, according to Fiawrc, is the most expensive in the market (ranges from P350 to P500 per bottle of Mr. Color Thinner 500). IIRC, Fiawrc recommends Sphero lacquer which is similar to Gunze's.
Gunze's lacquer thinner is so safe, you can use it to remove excess Mr. Putty which dissolves in Gunze's Mr. Color Thinner. I haven't tried using the Levelling Thinner because I don't know hell what it does.
I find lacquers better when airbrushed. Like acrylic, Gunze lacquers don't hand-brush well from what I've experienced. Enamels are still the best for hand-brushing.
BTW, to know which thinner is which (assuming there's no label in the bottles), the following smells are an indicator:
a) AWFUL cold smell - lacquer thinner
b) Gasoline/kerosene smell - ordinary paint thinner
c) Alcohol smell - acrylic thinner (Tamiya)
(apparently, I've been sniffing too much of these stuff hehehehe)
Gunze lacquers are the safest lacquers - but the thinner, according to Fiawrc, is the most expensive in the market (ranges from P350 to P500 per bottle of Mr. Color Thinner 500). IIRC, Fiawrc recommends Sphero lacquer which is similar to Gunze's.
Gunze's lacquer thinner is so safe, you can use it to remove excess Mr. Putty which dissolves in Gunze's Mr. Color Thinner. I haven't tried using the Levelling Thinner because I don't know hell what it does.
I find lacquers better when airbrushed. Like acrylic, Gunze lacquers don't hand-brush well from what I've experienced. Enamels are still the best for hand-brushing.
BTW, to know which thinner is which (assuming there's no label in the bottles), the following smells are an indicator:
a) AWFUL cold smell - lacquer thinner
b) Gasoline/kerosene smell - ordinary paint thinner
c) Alcohol smell - acrylic thinner (Tamiya)
(apparently, I've been sniffing too much of these stuff hehehehe)
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 11:05 AM UTC
Thanks for the info!
so if i use an airbrush it wud have a less tendency to eat the paint?
btw i bought Mr thinner 50 i think its the same lacquer thineer isn't it only in a small bottle? it costs 100 pesos
how long does it take for the lacquer paint to dry or how should i apply it one coat then let it dry or i can do multiple coats w/out eating tyhe paint? whats more advisable?
so if i use an airbrush it wud have a less tendency to eat the paint?
btw i bought Mr thinner 50 i think its the same lacquer thineer isn't it only in a small bottle? it costs 100 pesos
how long does it take for the lacquer paint to dry or how should i apply it one coat then let it dry or i can do multiple coats w/out eating tyhe paint? whats more advisable?
4-Eyes71
Member Since: December 02, 2003
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 12:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for the info!
so if i use an airbrush it wud have a less tendency to eat the paint?
btw i bought Mr thinner 50 i think its the same lacquer thineer isn't it only in a small bottle? it costs 100 pesos
how long does it take for the lacquer paint to dry or how should i apply it one coat then let it dry or i can do multiple coats w/out eating tyhe paint? whats more advisable?
Hi, Flex:
Those numbers in the thinner bottle indicate the capacity of the bottle. So you can use them on the paint.
If I may complement what Bull said earlier. Gunze has 2 paints. The Lacquers are labeled MR. COLOR. Acrylics go by the name AQUEOUS.. You can use the thinner on both of them but to conserve thinner (they cost a lot), I use alternatives for the latter (water, alcohol, even Ginebra, yes, make no mistake, gin at your nearest sari-sari store will also do the trick).
If Gunze thinner's burning a hole in your wallet, here's another alternative that was imparted to me. You can also use Hudson automotive (acrylic) thinner. Trust me, it won't mess up the paint. The caveat here is that it will give you a flat finish.
One more caveat: BE CAREFUL using Hudson as a paint remover. It's so strong it will eat/melt the plastic if you apply too much. Use it only for thinning paints.
cbrain21
Member Since: February 16, 2004
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 01:50 PM UTC
Hello, newbie poster in this forum. I've a question too regarding Gunze's Mr. Color lacquer paints:
- is there any difference if I use the cheap lacquer thinners (PhP 15.00 per bottle) found in the local hardware stores from the quite pricey Gunze lacquer thinner? Masyado bang matapang ito?
- i'm also a newbie airbrusher (just got mine last weekend), what is the paint to thinner ratio do most of you use for airbrushing lacquers?
tnx
- is there any difference if I use the cheap lacquer thinners (PhP 15.00 per bottle) found in the local hardware stores from the quite pricey Gunze lacquer thinner? Masyado bang matapang ito?
- i'm also a newbie airbrusher (just got mine last weekend), what is the paint to thinner ratio do most of you use for airbrushing lacquers?
tnx
blitz
Member Since: May 15, 2003
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 02:35 PM UTC
Yes, I have to agree with 4-Eyes, automotive "acrylic"thinner is an alternative for Gunze lacquer thinner. I had good results with just the right amout and mixture of paint and thinner. I also use the thinner for cleaning my airbrush.
Hey welcome aboard, Cbrain21..
Hey welcome aboard, Cbrain21..
GIBeregovoy
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 04:13 PM UTC
THAT'S IT! What 4-Eyes said, re: Gunze's alternative - Hudson. Available at automotive paint shops says Fiawrc.
Hehehe funny thing about Gunze's paint catalog IIRC, they state they have two acrylic paints - the lacquer based Mr. Color, and the water-soluble Gunze Acrylics proper. Hehehe getting confusing now hehehehe #:-)
cbrain21: Welcome aboard! :-) Do post at the Fropile Thread. With regard to your first lacquer query, ordinary lacquer thinner is too strong for models - unless you use them with your airbrush at a distance with some protective layer (e.g. a clear coat or a primer) or by dusting the surface first (i.e. spraying at a distance to 'dust' the model). These are good though for cleaning airbrushes (removes the paint instantly!) but be careful if your airbrush is an all-plastic body or has lots of plastic parts. With regard to your second query, there's no real hard-and-fast rule but generally it's a 50P:50T or 60P:40T ratio. Me, I hardly measure it (yep, I'm sloppy).
Hehehe funny thing about Gunze's paint catalog IIRC, they state they have two acrylic paints - the lacquer based Mr. Color, and the water-soluble Gunze Acrylics proper. Hehehe getting confusing now hehehehe #:-)
cbrain21: Welcome aboard! :-) Do post at the Fropile Thread. With regard to your first lacquer query, ordinary lacquer thinner is too strong for models - unless you use them with your airbrush at a distance with some protective layer (e.g. a clear coat or a primer) or by dusting the surface first (i.e. spraying at a distance to 'dust' the model). These are good though for cleaning airbrushes (removes the paint instantly!) but be careful if your airbrush is an all-plastic body or has lots of plastic parts. With regard to your second query, there's no real hard-and-fast rule but generally it's a 50P:50T or 60P:40T ratio. Me, I hardly measure it (yep, I'm sloppy).
4-Eyes71
Member Since: December 02, 2003
entire network: 424 Posts
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 07:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello, newbie poster in this forum. I've a question too regarding Gunze's Mr. Color lacquer paints:
- is there any difference if I use the cheap lacquer thinners (PhP 15.00 per bottle) found in the local hardware stores from the quite pricey Gunze lacquer thinner? Masyado bang matapang ito?
- i'm also a newbie airbrusher (just got mine last weekend), what is the paint to thinner ratio do most of you use for airbrushing lacquers?
tnx
Welcome aboard c-brain.
I second what Tovarisch GI said. Those lacquer thinners in Ginebra bottles are NOT suited for mixing paints. In my case, I only use them to clean the paint off my brushes and airbrushes. What a/b are you using? Be sure you only clean the metal parts only. The thinner will eat non-metal (plastic and rubber o-rings), weakening their integrity.
Here's more (based on what I learned and from my own experience), if Gunze/Tamiya thinners are scarce or heavy on your wallet, here are alternatives:
Acrylics (any brand): water (preferably distilled ones), rubbing alcohol (any brand), gin or vodka (they pack a lot of alcohol) or Hudson thinner.
Enamels: Paint thinner (the ones in Ginebra bottles).
Lacquers: Hudson automotive (acrylic), Sphero Lacquer Flo, RM Automotive thinner. You can find them at your nearest hardware/paint store. Swerte mo pag pwedeng magpatingi (bring a bottle, hwag lang plastic or a big empty milo or nido can).
What paints do you use, by the way?
Paint mixing is tricky. It will take a lot of patience to get the right shade or tone you like. Best to paint a swatch on a piece of scrap plastic first to see if you got it right. I hope you've stocked up those used prepaid cards (don't throw them away). They can come in handy in situations like these. :-)
Happy model building, dude.
cbrain21
Member Since: February 16, 2004
entire network: 151 Posts
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 07:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
THAT'S IT! What 4-Eyes said, re: Gunze's alternative - Hudson. Available at automotive paint shops says Fiawrc.
cbrain21: Welcome aboard! :-) Do post at the Fropile Thread.
OT: Thanks for the warm welcome, I'll post my profile ASAP.
Tama ba yung nabasa ko? Hudson is an automotive acrylic thinner? Now that's my next problem.... where will I find an automotive paint shop here in the southern metro area? Are they available locally? (here in the Phils.)
Well, my airbrush looks mostly metal (badger 175) but the paint bottle and the siphon that connects it to the airbrush looks plastic.... nakakatakot baka matunaw. Anyway, I'll go buy and use the Gunze thinner for the time being until I get to find one of those Hudson automotive thinners.
4-Eyes71
Member Since: December 02, 2003
entire network: 424 Posts
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 07:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
also purchased a lacquer thinner on it and it wwas kinda thick for its consistency...is that really like that?
Thick? Is it a big jar? You may have gotten Mr. Surfacer.
Anyway, the rule in thinning paints (for airbrushing) is you thin it until it becomes watery. The paint should drip from the stirring stick. If it's dripping in strings (still thick), thin it some more until it drips in drops. Remember, the airbrush painting will require several passes so don't expect instant coating on the first pass.
I hope you've got walis ting-ting in your backyard. They make good stirring sticks. Toothpicks are too short. Save up on those stirring sticks at Starbucks and Seattle's Best.
cbrain21
Member Since: February 16, 2004
entire network: 151 Posts
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 07:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Welcome aboard c-brain.
I second what Tovarisch GI said. Those lacquer thinners in Ginebra bottles are NOT suited for mixing paints. In my case, I only use them to clean the paint off my brushes and airbrushes. What a/b are you using? Be sure you only clean the metal parts only. The thinner will eat non-metal (plastic and rubber o-rings), weakening their integrity.
Here's more (based on what I learned and from my own experience), if Gunze/Tamiya thinners are scarce or heavy on your wallet, here are alternatives:
Acrylics (any brand): water (preferably distilled ones), rubbing alcohol (any brand), gin or vodka (they pack a lot of alcohol) or Hudson thinner.
Enamels: Paint thinner (the ones in Ginebra bottles).
Lacquers: Hudson automotive (acrylic), Sphero Lacquer Flo, RM Automotive thinner. You can find them at your nearest hardware/paint store. Swerte mo pag pwedeng magpatingi (bring a bottle, hwag lang plastic or a big empty milo or nido can).
What paints do you use, by the way?
Paint mixing is tricky. It will take a lot of patience to get the right shade or tone you like. Best to paint a swatch on a piece of scrap plastic first to see if you got it right. I hope you've stocked up those used prepaid cards (don't throw them away). They can come in handy in situations like these. :-)
Happy model building, dude.
Well, I have some gray tones of Gunze lacquers I plan to use (codes 305,306, 307, & 308) on some modern aircrafts. These colors I don't get from Gunze's Aqueous Acrylic line. Otherwise I would normally use Gunze and Tamiya acrylics.
4-Eyes71
Member Since: December 02, 2003
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 07:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
.
Tama ba yung nabasa ko? Hudson is an automotive acrylic thinner? Now that's my next problem.... where will I find an automotive paint shop here in the southern metro area? Are they available locally? (here in the Phils.)
Yes you got that right. Head for your nearest hardware or paint store in town. They are usually stored in those big cans with a screwable caps.
Quoted Text
Well, my airbrush looks mostly metal (badger 175) but the paint bottle and the siphon that connects it to the airbrush looks plastic.... nakakatakot baka matunaw. Anyway, I'll go buy and use the Gunze thinner for the time being until I get to find one of those Hudson automotive thinners.
Then you can immerse it in thinner. Just be sure you remove the o-rings or they will weaken when exposed for a long time in the thinner. It's ok to wash them with the thinner. Just don't immerse it for a long time. Keep a rag and cotton buds at the ready.
shonen_red
Member Since: February 20, 2003
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 09:27 PM UTC
Never use Gunze for brushing without thinning it. It is very thick and most strokes will appear. Not recommended for brushing.
GIBeregovoy
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 10:21 PM UTC
I used the same AB - Model 175 Crescendo. Do NOT soak the entire body in lacquer thinner (that's how my AB died*). Instead, just fill your paint jar with lacquer and shoot. You can immerse the needle, tips, heads, and bottles in lacquer thinner. For cleaning the inside of the AB, use a lacquer-soaked cotton swab.
* - In my gusto of cleaning my AB, I gave it a full lacquer bath (as in swimming in a big jar full of ordinary lacquer thinner). It killed the AB.
* - In my gusto of cleaning my AB, I gave it a full lacquer bath (as in swimming in a big jar full of ordinary lacquer thinner). It killed the AB.
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
entire network: 151 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 12:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thick? Is it a big jar? You may have gotten Mr. Surfacer.
Anyway, the rule in thinning paints (for airbrushing) is you thin it until it becomes watery. The paint should drip from the stirring stick. If it's dripping in strings (still thick), thin it some more until it drips in drops. Remember, the airbrush painting will require several passes so don't expect instant coating on the first pass
Aaaah!! nope actually its a small bottle with Mr color thinner 50 written on it. darn now how would i know if its for a lacquer type of thinner or for mr surfacer:_|
i think i may ask this again from what cbrain asked is it ok if the siphon for the airbrush is plastic? mine is a plastic strawlike siphon...would the lacquer melt it?
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 12:26 AM UTC
oh btw guys thanks for all ur help....keep em coming
Bull
Member Since: November 18, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 03:41 AM UTC
Flex:
No need to panic. If Mr. Thinner is written on the bottle then that's the thinner. The Leveling thinner, as GI mentioned, is a more specialized kind of thinner that works well if you want to achieve a glossy, smooth finish(as in cars). In automotive paint shop parlance, this is equivalent to the saying "dapang-dapa yung pintura". I guess it just flows better, which dishwashing liquid will do when mixed with the water based paints.
Surfacer is nothing more than heavily diluted putty. You can even make your own if you buy Gunze, Italeri or even Tamiya putty and mix it with a lot of Gunze thinner. You can play around with the consistency to make different putty dilutions to fit your filling needs. And yes, Gunze is plastic safe. Amazing thinner actually, which is why I swear by it. The plastic tube may be made of silicone so this is impervious to most solvents, thinner included.
CBrain:
Welcome to this little playground of ours! You can get the thinners they were referring at any shop that sells automotive paint. As for airbrush dilutions, medyo mahirap yan kasi it's more "feel" than actual, precise ratios. A good rule is that when the thinner/paint mixture has the consistency of milk, it will probably do.
No need to panic. If Mr. Thinner is written on the bottle then that's the thinner. The Leveling thinner, as GI mentioned, is a more specialized kind of thinner that works well if you want to achieve a glossy, smooth finish(as in cars). In automotive paint shop parlance, this is equivalent to the saying "dapang-dapa yung pintura". I guess it just flows better, which dishwashing liquid will do when mixed with the water based paints.
Surfacer is nothing more than heavily diluted putty. You can even make your own if you buy Gunze, Italeri or even Tamiya putty and mix it with a lot of Gunze thinner. You can play around with the consistency to make different putty dilutions to fit your filling needs. And yes, Gunze is plastic safe. Amazing thinner actually, which is why I swear by it. The plastic tube may be made of silicone so this is impervious to most solvents, thinner included.
CBrain:
Welcome to this little playground of ours! You can get the thinners they were referring at any shop that sells automotive paint. As for airbrush dilutions, medyo mahirap yan kasi it's more "feel" than actual, precise ratios. A good rule is that when the thinner/paint mixture has the consistency of milk, it will probably do.
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
entire network: 151 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 04:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
No need to panic. If Mr. Thinner is written on the bottle then that's the thinner. The Leveling thinner, as GI mentioned, is a more specialized kind of thinner that works well if you want to achieve a glossy, smooth finish(as in cars). In automotive paint shop parlance, this is equivalent to the saying "dapang-dapa yung pintura". I guess it just flows better, which dishwashing liquid will do when mixed with the water based paints.
Thanks a bunch Bull!
yupyup its written alright Mr. COlor Thinner as big as the bottle hehehee...so i guess this is the lacquer alryt! oh btw bull it smells kinda bit like acetone.... a bit cold to the smell...oh lastly how long is the drying time for a lacquer paint when airbrushed before applying another coat of it?
Quoted Text
oh i'm more worried when i'm going to clean my airbrush since i'm planning to use thinners in ginebra bottles those strong ones might melt the plastic i think? And yes, Gunze is plastic safe. Amazing thinner actually, which is why I swear by it. The plastic tube may be made of silicone so this is impervious to most solvents, thinner included.
4-Eyes71
Member Since: December 02, 2003
entire network: 424 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 12:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
oh i'm more worried when i'm going to clean my airbrush since i'm planning to use thinners in ginebra bottles those strong ones might melt the plastic i think?
Not quite. Just don't immerse it for so long.
4-Eyes71
Member Since: December 02, 2003
entire network: 424 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 12:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Tama ba yung nabasa ko? Hudson is an automotive acrylic thinner? Now that's my next problem.... where will I find an automotive paint shop here in the southern metro area? Are they available locally? (here in the Phils.)
There are rows and rows of paint stores in Muntinlupa (Tunasan) by the National H-way. There's this paint store in San Pedro, Laguna (next to Muntinlupa) called J & B Paint store. They sell Hudson there. It's located along Rizal St. leading to the town proper.
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 01:55 AM UTC
how much does Hudson cost? is it comparable to gunze thinner?
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
entire network: 151 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 04:16 AM UTC
btw guys just want to ask how long does the lacquer paint dry/cure after application?
i tried it already and after applying it w an airbrush i touched the surface and its kinda soft kinda looks like the base paint melted a bit due to the lacquer...is that normal? will it eventually harden again?
i tried it already and after applying it w an airbrush i touched the surface and its kinda soft kinda looks like the base paint melted a bit due to the lacquer...is that normal? will it eventually harden again?
4-Eyes71
Member Since: December 02, 2003
entire network: 424 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
how much does Hudson cost? is it comparable to gunze thinner?
A gallon costs over 200 pesos but it will last longer. But you can get a small amount for as low as 40 pesos.
Remember that Hudson has a snag. It will give a flat finish. But nevertheless, it's as good as Gunze. It could be possible to match the formulation of Gunze by mixing Hudsoin with other thinners.
cbrain21
Member Since: February 16, 2004
entire network: 151 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 12:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
There are rows and rows of paint stores in Muntinlupa (Tunasan) by the National H-way. There's this paint store in San Pedro, Laguna (next to Muntinlupa) called J & B Paint store. They sell Hudson there. It's located along Rizal St. leading to the town proper.
Thanks, I daily ply the Susana Heights route to get to the Putatan area in Muntinlupa but that's usually before 7am and after 6pm so most of those stores are closed at those times. I'll try to go "thinner" hunting hopefully during Sundays (hope the shops are open) when traffic isn't that bad in Tunasan enroute to San Pedro. For now I'll use the Gunze paint thinner in the 50 ml bottle I bought yesterday.
Do they sell Hudson in the J&B paint shop you mentioned in "tingi" packs?
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