I'm not a prolific modeller, but when I finish a model or diorama, I like to post photos and get feedback. I already know what's wrong with my model as I can be a bit impatient and am not an accuracy freak.

I've noticed that some people here always give advice on weathering and painting...but I never see them post photos of their own models. It's quite a mystery to me. I mean why wouldn't they?

Any theories about this phenomenon?

Guilty as charged. I do give advice and don't post many of my own builds. I do finish models but very rarely and if I post in progress shots it only adds to the pressure to finish them which means I put them on the long finger

I can't speak for the others but maybe they don't have good cameras.

I give advice but do not have the ability to upload photos to this site any more. Easiest solution for me is to make sure I don't give advice unless someone specifically asks for it.

Heres one for everyone,
I don't give much advice cause all my models look like sh....poop LOL.Well at least to me they do!!!But,I keep trying!!!!
Really though I only have a cheapo camera and I would have to con my girlfriend into taking them and getting them into the putor and well lets just say ,it would be more fun having my teeth pulled!!
And hey Pat,thanks again for the excellent site you linked me to!

I'm in the same boat, I have posted one photo of an M4A1 that I did, but that was a few years ago. I look at the wonderful jobs that so many folks here do and I am sort of embarrassed. I have been making kits since 1964, in one form or another, and with a few breaks here and there. You think that I would be better by now! I build for my own relaxation and enjoyment and it works for me. i just did my first diorama, of a 12 pounder Napoleon Gun Howitzer and Union Gun Crew, but the figures look so amateurish when I put them against my Britains ACW figures, which I also collect. Its also why I rarely offer criticism of someone else's work. I may give a little advice here and there, but I would never feel comfortable saying, "oohh, that looks bad!" I might say that maybe there shouldn't be so much rust for example, but overall most of the stuff that I see here just blows my stuff away. Still, if I give advice on a technique that works for me, I assume that in the hands of someone better skilled, it will work that much better!



John

My models do not look like crap but are a far cry from looking anything like Claudes. I like detail but not obsessed with it. I feel free to give advice on things but for every method that I use there are always several different ways that other people do things. Nothing is really written in blood, so experiment with things and do what is best for you........Al....(edit).....I don't post much because I suck with a computer, and get my brother, the computer tec to do them for me. Some of my stuff can be seen in my photos.

good question ! ..wondered that myself sometimes. I guess we all know how to do it -or think we do- but sometimes we just don't have the skill to actually pull it off like some others. I'm under no illusions - I'm a 'basic modeller' - so shrink from posting pics of my rather inadequate productions - but that doesn't stop me from getting a kick about talking models and drooling over others builds ..and just occasionally suggesting something that I might have done differently! Good way of picking up things too. Or are you referring to the 'rivet counters' who absolutely have to pull new kits and great builds to pieces - to feel good about themselves perhaps? Not too much of that here thankfully !

Just my two cents. I picked up modeling two and a half years ago and having a blast. I learned so much from all the posts. I also picked up paper modeling and both hobbies work hand in hand. The paper site I belong to (don't know if I could call them out), is so very easy to post photos.

I took some from my cell phone camera and in seconds I was able to upload to the site. I'm not to hip on the photo bucket site and still trying to work it out. It has to be a way to upload right to the forum you are writing to. I don't mean the gallery section of this site.

I know I'm old.......but not that old. As we always said in the U.S. Navy.......KISS! Keep It Simple St........

New computer if it wer'nt for my oldest daughter I would'nt even have this brain in a box 40th anaversery present for me and my wife.No printer no camera,but maybe someday soon. aceses5

Brett, I dropped out of armor{got burnt out} and now do semi's, cars and sci-fi...if your an armor guy your not going to want to see these then{lol}, but if ya did hop on over to auto modeler or model geek and search my name...I post alot of pics. I don't count rivets either, as I make them for a living.

Sabot, can you use photo bucket and transfer them over here like I do...my picture account here is nearly full{don't take much does it?} so I went to PB and haven't looked back.
I just started the "OTR"{over the road} truck campaign on auto modeler may 1st and she's a year long build...maybe you and the boy could build something with us?! Duece and a halfs would be welcome though we're mostly a civilian bunch there....offer's good to anyone else here too.

Well it's refreshing to see people are just honest and say their models aren't really well made, but I think there are those modellers that give advice and who sound like they are really professional usually replying to somebody's query about weathering, airbrushing, or painting. However, they never post photos of their own work to show what they mean.

I'm under the impression they would never admit that they are not good modellers themselves as opposed to some of you guys who would freely admit it. You don't have to be a pro to enjoy the hobby, but if you dispense advice a few photos wouldn't hurt.

Why do you then ask for feedback? And how is the viewers supposed to know what you already know is wrong? I can understand that one wants to show ones work and get some comment but to me feedback is to make suggestions of inprovement. Now, Im not a native english talker so that might be a error on my behalf.




I dont see the reason that they should? Is it because that you want to see if they are better than you and then their commets gets more credibility? And if not, their point is not to be taken in regard? A comment or a suggestion does not have more or less support than the reason behind it. No matter the skill of the modeller behind it.

If you want feedback you should take it for what it is. If I do an out of the box build and someone comments on the level of detailing he is of course right, but that alone does not make it a bad model. You can always choose to wich critic you should lissen to but it is my experience that its educating to see how other looks upon my work even if I dont agree or perhaps the very thing they comment isnt that important to me.

This is also a public forum and others have interest in the subjects and learn from comments on your builds.

Cheers

Perhaps, before you begin threads like this, which could easily be taken the wrong way, you could consider the OTHER side of the argument.

Some of us have repeatedly posted photos of WiPs only to hit the 'Apathy Barrier'. A friend of mine recently posted photos of some superb modeling - an H39 with full scratchbuilt engine interior etc. Reaction? Virtually nothing.

Feedback/Constructive criticism? That's usually the reason for posting. When you don't get it, the 15th time you usually just don't bother.

My bench time is pretty limited - something to do with spending too much time keeping the Site updated on New Releases - which rarely get much in the way of feedback either. Another friend of mine sweats blood into Reviews only tho run headlong into the apathy barrier again.

So, perhaps you should be asking if the majority are as Passive as they frequently come across as?

I'm an old school biker guy with a pretty thick skin, a veteran of decades of being a bad boy. I know what I'm capable of when it comes to handling myself. I still carry bullet fragments from one of those times I bit off more than I could chew and I still gave it hell. Basically, not much really rattles me. No fear and all that rot.

But, I get all squishy inside and suffer from stage fright something terrible when it comes to posting pictures of stuff I've finished. I am not on a par with many of the regular posters here, but someday I hope I can create something I wouldn't be as nervous about showing off. I know I'm my worst critic. When I finally do put up pictures, I want to say to those who helped me in so many ways, both directly by answering questions, giving advice, etc and to those who inspired me by sharing what they create, "I couldn't have done this without all of your help."

Regarding a few other points made in this thread: I have offered advice and critiques. If I know an answer or have an idea I don't feel that because I don't have a portfolio here that my answers and advice are irrelevant. I try not to speak up just to make noise and seem smart. But I also know I can make mistakes and have no problem admitting I was wrong. I appreciate being set straight.

Lastly, I have also had the experience of posting pictures of things I was working on and gotten zero or minimal responses. From asking help on builds in progress, paint schemes and colors that didn't seem right, technical questions and more at times and the silence was deafening. Given what I already said about my stage fright it's hard not to feel like I either haven't been a member here long enough to merit having attention paid to me, my work was so sad it didn't even deserve commenting on, or my questions were so stupid they drew a sigh and rolling of the eyes by viewers before they went onto something else. I know this isn't necessarily the case, but I can't keep those shadows from flitting across my mind and the butterflies from wing flapping in my gut.

I have been helped more times than not. Often, it always seems to be the same few. Other times answers by a very few members seem a touch snide as if not having a PHD in Panzerology makes me the odd man out and nobody will ever teach me the secret handshake or nominate me for the Inner Circle.

So, I participate as much as I can because I really like this forum and really like and respect about all the people I have had exchanges with. Several have even become good friends. I'm just not quite ready to show it all yet.

In other words- it's complicated.

so you say people who don't post pics but do comment are allowed to do that, but people who do post pics and don't get comments should be babied? i find a lot or stickler anal retentive people on this site who pick at people's work rather that look at it as how it is: a hobby. True, there are some poeple who stirve for the accuracy of creating n accurate scale replica, and i applaud them for most of them have skills far better than mine.

But spare the thought for some people. I agree with elph. I have seen many people post "advice" and don't post any of theirs. That to me smells of "do what i say not what i do". I have no respect unless you can show me what you can do.

Everyones model is different. Constructive citism and advice is good, but having to listen to people telling me how to do things, is crap. Post pics or shut up!

I have never posted photos of my own work here because I never regarded my work as being anywhere as good as some (read: all) other people's work. I mean, whenever I came on this site I compared my work with other people's work and quite frankly it was embarrasing, hence why I never posted photos of my work.

However, when someone else posted photos of their work on this site asking for comments on how they could improve it, I always gave them my honest oppinion and sugestions on how they could improve it using information that I had learned from reading other people's build logs and tutorials on this network.

Some people might see this as being dishonest because I myself had never been able to try these techniques out, but I always had only good intentions and I was only trying to help.

Bummer, now I will need a "Licence to comment" in the future?

In reverse that must be necessary for positive comments as well, especially does replies with only one superlativ?

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

Personally, I don't participate here to gain your or anyone's "respect". I participate because I like the hobby and most of the people I have met here. There are things I know I am happy to share and things I don't know I'm willing to learn. Your use of the word "respect" is ironic because it seems lacking on your part towards anyone who has a reason that is significant to them.




Rather a contradictory comment, no? So following that reasoning I have no right to critique a book because I'm not an author? I can't say a word about my likes/dislikes in music because I am not a muscian? This could extend ad nauseum but I think I made my point. I am happy you don't control this site.

Ola Guys

My 2 cents.... When I came here 8 years ago I only had questions... and a lot of them as well. My only experience came from going to the LHS... Asking as much as I could and hoping I had remembered everything right when I came home to try them. When the internet came around stuff suddenly changed very quickly. I learned new techniques that I had never heard of. And people shared pictures of their models.
Quickly I started to do this too. And my models were pretty bad back then. But still I did show my latest projects and often in progress pictures and tried to lure in as much feedback as I could as it was for me the only route to some better quality modelling.
Now looking back at 8 years of Armorama I have to say that my skills jumped over the fence and ran two blocks compared to what it was when I began... And still there is a lot to improve. And I learn of new techniques every day. But the fun thing is that I am now able to answer a lot of questions and they are often the same questions I had when I came up here. And I try as much as I can to answer questions though with my own company time is very limited so it's not as much as I want to.

But the truth is... I probably would not have made this progress had I not post pictures of my work. Asking what to improve. What I'm trying to say here with my long and complicated story is that it kinda works two ways. If you are a beginner or somebody who just returned to the hobby nobody is expecting you to be an expert modeler in an instant. You think your work is not worth it to be shown here because you look up to other people of whom you think they are far better then you... guess what... they started the same way as you did. And pretty much walked the same road. But for every person posting his work asking to improve you need people sharing their knowledge. A lot of things I have never done before but I have a fairly good idea how to do it. I usually share this anyway even though I have nothing to prove I was succesfull in this. Still it could be of someones help.

Oh and the H39 guy Jim was refering to was me. The frustrating part more or less was that I detailed the vehicle from pictures. And a book. And no clue if I was doing it right... sometimes it is nice to know more tech background to make the picture perfect. And then it is nice that somebody with enough knowledge steps in and tells you what you want to know. (in that case I don't care if he does or does not post pics of his own work.) But this alas is not always the case. Probably highly dependent on the vehicle. However I will remain posting pics of the beasty

Happy modelling all
And if you think your work is not good at all. I have some of my older work still in the storage. projects from the days I started modelling. If you want to have a good laugh... I can make pics of it.

I personally don't want to laugh at your previous work, but I wouldn't mind seeing that H39. Can you give me a link to it?

I have to agree with Faust on this one too. Add the fact that I am not computer intelligent and the picture thing is so frustrating. Add the fact that my wife is worse than I ( gets us locked out all the time)on it and the keyboard skips around and doesn't work worth a dam, just makes me want to deep six the whole thng most times. And sometimes when I post replies, they don't even show up here, computer problem, not armorams. And I just spent a few minutes correcting is post as some letters were missing fom writting. Other than that, I post replies when I feel inclined.By the way Faust, I did post a rely on your French tank but alas, the computer gremlin stuck again. I liked it.

I have to agree with Faust on this one too. Add the fact that I am not computer intelligent and the picture thing is so frustrating. Add the fact that my wife is worse than I ( gets us locked out all the time)on it and the keyboard skips around and doesn't work worth a dam, just makes me want to deep six the whole thng most times. And sometimes when I post replies, they don't even show up here, computer problem, not armorams. And I just spent a few minutes correcting this post as some letters were missing fom writting. Other than that, I post replies when I feel inclined. By the way Faust, I did post a rely on your French tank but alas, the computer gremlin stuck again. I liked it.

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You seem to feel that your inferiors are telling you do this or that. I only speak from my experience, I tell people things that I have tried, if they have worked and if they haven't. I'm not "Lording" it over people. I'm a photographer, a darned good one as well, and I would never patronize someone who wasn't as good as I was the way that I have seen some folks posting on this thread. I am also a historian, specializing in the ACW. Yet I have learned that sometimes, if you keep your ears open you learn new things. I will talk with anyone about say Gettysburg, not just someone who has published a piece on it. You only want "elite" modellers here? Fine, the rest of us should I guess just listen to what you have to say, fine, you have the floor. I am done, how do you end your membership here?

Ola Guys

@ Dean
Sure no probs mate... got the link right here.
H39 WIP
This is pretty much where the built ended at this moment did a little work on the exterior... Nearly time to button her up.

@ Bob
Don';t get me started on computer problems... I'm a designer by trade and in all the years I have used computers I pretty much encountered all sorts of problems... with the machine and the internet and wireless and such... Often baffling the IT experts.
Thanks for your time looking at my H39

As for the critique part. There are several forms of critique. A lot of bad ones and only a few good ones. I have seen it so often about selfprocclaimed experts of modelling that tell you you HAVE to do THIS and you HAVE to do THAT. Because I tell you to DO it THAT way. To tell you the truth that approach aggrevates me to no extent.
Yes there is always something to be said about a model and since perfection is a non existent thing there is always room to improve but there comes a time with every model you have to say " It's enough... on to the next one"
When I have an in progress built, sure, fire away with the feedback... good or bad, advice, I really appreciate that. But When it is finished (or when I declare it finished ) I still love to have feedback but I probably won't do much to the vehicle itself anymore. Instead I will take the knowledge onto the next project and try it there.
That is also always the way when I unfortunately have missed a WIP from somebody else and am admiring the endresult and I spot a minor point I simply say: "looks good"... "Good this good that" Only point ........ which you can always take with you on your next project.

Easy as that. You can give critique without needing to be an a$$. Modelling should be fun for yourself. Unless you are building on commision but that is a whole different world

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You want to know why? This is why!