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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
10 second rant
techie
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Member Since: August 20, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 07:06 AM UTC
Are we deluding ourselves that other gererations of modellers will follow us? Having just looked at the prices in the UK that companies are asking for their, very nice, complex, need add ons to complete kits I think we are a growing band of last stand troopers. At 50 for some plastic kits I think no I'll not bother this time. Just imagine the thrill of buying your first kit, 2/6 for me. Racing home, kit torn open lets get started, glue all over, painted in gloss paint ,decals stuck where you thought best. Proudly showing it of to cor where did you get that from ? Not anymore with a starter kit costing pounds gone is any incentive to get a kit for that price you can buy a PC game that will last ages, no I think that the model companies are killing off any new gereations with their lets see what we can screw out of the dionosaurs. Dont say yes but the cost of new moulds, yes, what about the old ones re issue at todays prices what cost involved there then? well I've outstayed my welcome . just like to hear what others think or is it me just driffting off to senility? Ah well happy days.
vanize
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 08:17 AM UTC
any renaissance usually marks the end of an era, and we certainly have a renaissance in modeling these days.

But yeah, I agree completely. Even with a larger than ever income, I am seriously thinking about quitting the hobby because of the price of new kits. I do have a moderate stash to draw from for a while, and I'll be building from that for a long time mind you, but that stash is probably going to start shrinking rather than growing now.

I mean really, at these prices, buying a nice lathe and turning wood or getting a welding setup and starting to do some metal sculpture for a hobby starts to make more sense.

At the very least, $75 for a new kit means i'll be 10 times pickier when buying a kit than I would be at $25, instead of just 3 times.

And It is completely ridiculous that the old Hobbycraft molds are being re-boxed for $30 or more these days (triple the price of ten years ago). that sort of thing makes me even more sour than the $75 new kits, especially when it comes to the hope of the hobby continuing for another generation.

At current prices, I can't really even recommend the hobby to my nephew, who would have been a prime candidate for becoming a modeler once upon a time.
Bowman18
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Member Since: July 19, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 08:33 AM UTC
I agree, i have seen some kits that are 45 and 50 and have put them back and got a lesser priced kit of lesser quality of the same model. I have had DMLs 2in1 M3 or M2 halftrack (cant remember which one) and saw a good aftermarket kit i thoiught about tracking down until i found it was more than the kit, an then i forgot about buying it.

I bought an accurate armour landrover for colose to 45 and found the fit on many areas was bad due to parts being slightly twisted, i can now say i am not going to but another one of them for a while as i have had it close to 3 months and still havent got the cab glued to chasis.haha

However i have always wondered about buying a lesser kit, then gradually building up a pile of aftermarket accessories over a period of time to eventually start building it one day.

Grumpyoldman
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 08:48 AM UTC
I certainly feel the price of new kits have gotten out of hand, and out of pocket money. Out pricing themselves to the "Joe Blow average modeler, with a family to support", and "the younger modelers we are suppose to be attracting to the hobby" and this has now become the hobby of "kings".

I for one have decided to not buy any new kits, limiting myself to a few after market improvements for items in the stash, and waiting for the newer kit-- THAT I JUST HAVE TO HAVE TO SIT IN THE STASH--- to go on sale.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 09:01 AM UTC
Our demand for the uber kit has put the price out of reach from the next generation of modelers. Our exacting standards has put model companies like Lindberg, virtually out of business with statments that they make junk, not worth the price of glue to assemble, etc. These companies made simpler kits that were more accessible to children.

Amazingly, the one company that does still make the simpler, less expensive kits is Tamiya, a company known for high quality and high prices. Yet we still ridicule the older kits they keep in their inventory.
Tojo72
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 09:13 AM UTC
Yes I feel that prices have gone up,and I definitly pick and choose my purchases,making sure it's a subject that really interests me,and that I have well researched the kit for quality and ease of assembly. But as far a hobby goes,I still feel that model building still gives you a lot of bang for the buck,a kit may cost $50.00 + finiishing supplies,but how may hours of entertainment does it provide ?? one movie cost $10.00 for 90-120 minutes of recreation,golf on even a muni course can be $50.00 for maybe 5-hours of entertainment,what about other hobbies the cost of fishing,skiing, everything cost something.As far a cheap kits for kids,one can still go to Toys Are Us or the like and pick up cheap kits.
Yes kit costs are getting high but so is everything else,pick and choose,build down the stash,and you won't go broke.
russamotto
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Utah, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 10:01 AM UTC
I purchase Academy and Tamiya kits for my boys, and work with them to help them get the most out of it. Academy aircraft are also generally priced very good. I bargain shop every chance I get. The AFV club are up on the list for Christmas for a group build.

Car models are still inexpensive (relatively speaking), followed by aircraft and armor and last ships. I could buy a 15 foot aluminum fishing boat for the price of some of the 1/350 scale ships out there. No more floating a battleship in the bathtub.

With the prices many kits are listed at we sit and discuss what they really really want and evaluate their choices very carefully. The most important issue for all of us is really just spending time together. We can watch a movie and not talk or sit at the hobby table and talk and build and work and have a good time and when we are finished they can look at their work. We make the hobby work for us.
warreni
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 10:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes I feel that prices have gone up,and I definitly pick and choose my purchases,making sure it's a subject that really interests me,and that I have well researched the kit for quality and ease of assembly. But as far a hobby goes,I still feel that model building still gives you a lot of bang for the buck,a kit may cost $50.00 + finiishing supplies,but how may hours of entertainment does it provide ?? one movie cost $10.00 for 90-120 minutes of recreation,golf on even a muni course can be $50.00 for maybe 5-hours of entertainment,what about other hobbies the cost of fishing,skiing, everything cost something.As far a cheap kits for kids,one can still go to Toys Are Us or the like and pick up cheap kits.
Yes kit costs are getting high but so is everything else,pick and choose,build down the stash,and you won't go broke.



You are 100% correct there mate. You need to look at the cost per hour of entertainment. I know they are expensive, but you can send your kids to the cinema to a crappy movie to rot their brain, some coke and popcorn and get no change out of $20. You can get many kits for under $20 that will improve their logical thinking, hand/eye coordination, readin and interprative skills. Get the kids off the couch and into the hobby room with you.
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 02:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

However i have always wondered about buying a lesser kit, then gradually building up a pile of aftermarket accessories over a period of time to eventually start building it one day.


The overall cost will be higher than the better kit, and quality ... even with AM sets ... is still not as good. The price of AM sets is rising as well ... maybe not as fast ... but they aint getting cheaper, thats for sure.
I think if you only buy what you build, its still a reasonbly priced hobby. The days of the big stashes are coming to an end.
bpunchy
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Western Australia, Australia
Member Since: February 22, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 11:47 PM UTC
well , the model club i'm a member of - the Scale Model Club Of Western Australia - has a hall that we hire for peppercorn rent and every Saturday afternoon its packed with modellers of all ages and interests . Plenty of younger modellers and families . The more experienced modellers help the novices and much fun is had . We also have a room full of older kits for sale for $ 5.00 each . this stock is donated to the club from members , vendors and from people who move out of the hobby . this ensures that even the fiscally challenged can find something to build . this also introduces younger people to the hobby , every kid that finishes a kit gets their photo on the walls . this Saturday modelling was started by a top bloke named John . if you want to get kids interested in model building open up your stash , you aint going to build all those kits , and the obsolete ones are good for kids to build . the glass is half full . thats my rant
lespauljames
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 12:47 AM UTC
i have a simple idea!
a budget,
i dont buy any kit over 30.
if the kit i want is more, there may be a slae in the future, or i find soemthing else
old-dragon
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 02:57 AM UTC
I gotta ask...why do your kits get so expensive?...is it the VAT that adds to it, import tax, or what?

I can remember as a kid, taking my hard earned lawn and chore money and going to ben franklin or the hobby shops around town and buying what I liked...sometimes even paying in pennies if that was all I had left...if I remember correctly an AMT truck kit then was something around $20.00 and car kits were about $5.00...at my rate of $5 a week, cars were more readily had{hahaha}. Now the same kits, of sorts, are far more expensive with truck kits around $50ish and car around $17-$19.00....ahhhhh,inflation!{of course, this is roughly 30yrs worth of inflation too}
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 06:02 AM UTC
Bob just take a look at the price of AirFix kits in in UK based retailer, or any other manufacturer you can think of. the prices are disheartening. when I was a kid I used to save my dinner money to buy kits (you wouldn't think it to look at me now) but prices now are beyond the kids pockets and in some cases the parents as well. As to why are prices so high, I really cannot tell you as I see no factors that would cause or justify these high prices when compared to some other areas of the planet.
GSPatton
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 06:49 AM UTC
Just came back from the hobby store and WOW were my eyes opened. Can't tell you how many kits I picked up where over $50 mark. One, I thought would be nice to add to my collection was about $80 and it's a TRUCK. So, now I need to double my efforts to save for kits (no more Starbucks for me) or pick up lesser priced kit - I picked up the Tamiya Horch for about $15. Not a bad kit, and something I could afford

Finch
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New York, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 07:37 AM UTC
People have been making this gloom and doom prediction for thirty years now. It always sounds sorta true....but then I go to a model contest/show and take a careful look around, and I always see plenty of guys a lot younger than me. So that's encouraging.

I am not sure every rennaissance is a sign of decline either - after all the original "rennaissance" led to the modern world, the decline of superstition, the rise of the scientific era and so forth.

dioman13
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Indiana, United States
Member Since: August 19, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 08:58 AM UTC
Just have to trow my hat in the ring on this one. Notice that every time oil goes up, so do the price of models. Plastics come from oil,so, enough said. And the price of reissued kits going up, got to pay everyone involved from the tech to the janitor, and I don't see anyone working for free. Like all else, prices go up and our pay check doen't keep up with inflation. Dam, I sound like the old man when I was younger. And younger people getting into the hobby, I see them at shows and hobby shops. No, it's not as fun to most younger people with the compitition of vedio games, D.V.D.s, computers (ha, ha) and of course, discovering the opposite sex as a younger person and beer. It's a calling by those who have the desire to create something better from something else. Not all can follow or have the desire too. Modeling is not a dying art form, just slow to catch on in a fast paced world. Dollar for dollar, I personally get more bang with modeling than going to a movie or out to dinner and a show. I guess it all depends on what you like. And like most modelers, I have had to readjust the play money for my hobby fun. That said , I will also be building from the stash and looking for deals here on armorama as well as venders at shows. There are kits I would be willing to spend big bucks on, but priorities come first. No mortage payment means no-where to build or stash kits. Priorities, the word should be stricken for the languages of modelers.
drabslab
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European Union
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 11:40 AM UTC
Is it really more expensive??

I happen to have a box of a model of an F-16A here. I bought this thing roughly 20 years ago and paid then 550 Belgian franks. In European currency, the Euro ( which did not yet exist in 1988) this would have been 13.75 euro.

If the price of this model would have staid identical then it should now cost, taking into an average yearly inflation rate of 1.03 (which ain't much in Belgium), approximitaly 994 Belgian franks or roughly 25 euro (which is close to 36 US dollars).

Guess what, the model is available at Lucky Model for 17 dollars or only 12 euro. Basically, this model is (taking into account our standard of living) now cheaper than 20 years ago. OK, in a local hobby store in Belgium, it would be more expensive and the poor state of the dollar helps a lot and this may not apply to the whole planet but still... modelling is not necessarily more expensive than it used to be.

Many 1/72 kits are available for less than 10 dollars. Try to find any other hobby for son of daughter (except for reading) which will cost less for the same amount of time spent, the same amount of learning and the same long lasting satisfaction.

So why are we complaining???

1. Because it is healthy consumer behaviour. We need to keep the manufacturers on their toes to deliver highest quality at the lowest price.

2. Because society has changed. Back in 1988 we were already in transition from the "OR" society to the "MUST ... AND" society. In '88, we knew and accepted that we had to choose between going to the movies OR buy that great new model OR ... Now, we MUST HAVE a plasma screen AND a smartphone AND a computer AND... and then of course frustration sets in as soon as reality hits the dreamworld.

It is also said that youngsters are no longer intersted in modelling. Clearly, there are now (luckily) a lot more options for them than 20 or 30 years ago but what I see is that many young folks are just dying to become part of a community (or how do you explain the success of facebook, msn, yahoo groups, ...) and it is up to us to draw their attention to our great hobby and world-wide community.

1. lets get ridd of the snobbery. Recently, I saw the enthousiasm beaten out of a 15 year old who showed his newest purchase (Italeri MH60G Pave Hawk) to the local "experts" by snotty "poor quality kit, will cost you a fortune on aftermarket parts..." remarks.

2. Hence, build a community. Kitmaker is a very good site but it sometimes annoys me that there are so few contributions. Apparently there are 35 000 visitors here. if 10% of these would write one feature, one review, one best practice... every year then we would have a thriving community, just what the kids are looking for.

So there is hope then????

I'm sure there is.

Modelling is booming. 20 years ago I knew just a few model companies (ESCI, Italeri, REVELL, Airfix, Hasegawa and Tamiya). There are plenty more now and there is a booming crowd of photo etch and resin manufacturers.

The trick is to learn youngsters that the fancy aftermarket stuff is only "the cherry on the cake" instead of "your model is garbish if you haven't used the latest Eduard photo etch".

Finally, let's stop complaining, act like good consumers and above all, enjoy modelling.
old-dragon
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Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 11:31 PM UTC
Drabslab, your right. Todays youth is often given the "if it ain't got resin and pe it ain't right"...try telling that to my daughter who puts decals on crooked or wants me to paint her snap tite fire truck "pink".
Old tamiya kits are still cheap and a great starting point for anyone...while I don't readily condone the added expense of resin and pe, I do applaud those who make some fine lookin models using them both...either way, I don't openly trash someone for spending so much on a model, nor should they trash anyone for not doing it.
Things go up in price no matter what...how much did we pay for our 1st car{new or used}...models will just be the same, at least we have alot better sellection now a days and alot of old kits are coming back{amt...keep it up!}...I can't complain...don't do any good anyway!
discordian
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 03, 2009 - 12:26 PM UTC
I collect comic books, so model kit prices don't shock me.
Why:
A) detail the put on the expensive kits is far higher than when I last was into modeling
B) because I worked in injection molding for a several year and know what the costs involved are.

On the other hand my jaw dropped when I saw what they wanted for a Star Wars Snap-Tite kit my 6 year old son wanted....I told him he's better off with a LEGO kit of comparable price because you build other stuff with it.
In a couple of years he can start on glue kits.

Beside - I love LEGO too. (did some work for them about 10 years ago, what an experience)
yeahwiggie
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Dalarnas, Sweden
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Posted: Monday, August 03, 2009 - 07:39 PM UTC
Some people might find the following to be disturbing and/or upsetting, so parental supervision is advised....



Personnaly I am getting a bit tired of people complaining about kitprices.
Yes, they are high, but why is that?
The costs of materials and molds has been brought up, as has the greed of the manufacturers, who see easy victims in us.
But....!
Look at the average level of the average kit and compare that to one from 10 years ago. The extra work that had been put in, because whining modellers wanted them to be better, costs money!!!
Look again at the average kit and compare it's number of parts to the same kit from ten years ago... Surprise! There are more and smaller and more complicated parts in the new kits and what do you know?? That costs extra too!
Look at all the extras that come with recent kits, like single link tracks, pe, 3-in-1 boxes, accessoires and figures... Not so long ago, these were after market items and are now semi-standard.... You can guess what I am about to say now.... They cost extra too!

And now people start complaining about the prices?
We brought that onto ourselves, because we were too lazy and spoiled to take a mediocre kit, some plastic card and other bits and pieces and MAKE our own kit.
No, now we wanted everything to be done for us. We did not want to be bothered with something as laborious as doing research, using our imagination and brain, picking up knives and rulers and doing some actual BUILDING....

No, we wanted everything to be done for us and now we don't want to pay for it???

If you don't want to, that DON'T!
Pick up a low priced kit, pick up some plastic card, pick up your knives, rules and other tools, use your brain and MAKE YOUR OWN KIT!

This was my rant......
techie
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England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, August 03, 2009 - 09:09 PM UTC
Yes all well and true I still use plasticard and measure etc. What I'm saying is that in the UK a Dragon orangebox kit costs 34.99. In the USA its $34.99 . So If I use a conversion chart $34.99 is 20.66 who is talking the extra? Or is it far simpler to switch the money sign
and say its VAT we pay that on the 34.99 tax its also paid on the 34.99. Father away shipping etc, er right the exact amount to bring it to the magic figure. Phew rant over but I hope you see my point why modelling in the UK is so expensive.
yeahwiggie
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Dalarnas, Sweden
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Posted: Monday, August 03, 2009 - 10:12 PM UTC
Hi Alfie,
my reply wasn't meant to be personally addressed to you.
Why the UK is so much more expensive than the US, I don't know... Taxes might be a good reason. Profitgoals for the wholesaler might be another one.
What I was refering to was the fact that these "high-price-rants" keep showing up and this is the way I feel about them.
No offense intended!
Removed by original poster on 08/04/09 - 12:36:44 (GMT).
martyncrowther
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 01:40 AM UTC
Ok, before i got a part time job I did paper rounds, so my buget was limited anyway, the only way i bought kits was under the table, f not id buy figure kits, they are not expensive and you can get as much fun, I have to stashes one of figures one of armour kits. Guess whats bigger.

I have not bought a top of the range Dragon kit. I now have money, so if i like something I will generally buy it. However kit prces are steep.

EDIT, the reason why James post has been deleted is because I am borrowing his laptop after my one is being repaired. I accidently posted on his account because he didn't log off.
newfish
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 02:32 AM UTC
I am like Ron on this one. Im sick of these threads nothings changed. If you don't like it simply don't buy them. These threads really arn't going to change much. If you cannot afford expensive kits right now whats wrong with saving or re-do an old model?. I am still a student and I have a part time job If I can't afford something I want I save or sell off some of my stash to pay for it.

But threads like these really arn't going to change much

Darren: Theres nothing wrong with that I did that when I first started the hobby
any my mums stll non the wiser

 _GOTOTOP