Theunis, guess what showed up today. Yep, the DVDs, sorry, can’t see the day, but what I can make out of the postmark is the month of August. Had a quick look and the photo are good. Thanks!

Bit busy with another ‘project’ but as soon as possible and we can get back to the Olifant in 1/35 scale.

Hi Guys,
I was tank crew at School of Armour E-Squadron 1985 / 1986, then a few years part time Natal Mounted Rifles (Olifant Mk 1A)
Im enjoying this thread.

I bought the 1/35 scale Olifant Mk 1A coversion from Nick Butler a few months ago, havent built it yet, looks very nice and if I remember correctly I only paid R 270 plus postage.

Can anyone tell me if 1/35 scale SADF troops are manufactured by anyone?

What would be the best kit to use to convert to SADF soldiers?

Thanks
Greg

Hi Greg,

Welcome to the KitMaker Network, and the Springbok Club

AFAIK no one makes SADF/SANDF figures in 1/35 for mass production. There may be one or two local lads making garage kits, but none that I know of in my neck of the woods.

I suppose you could probably kit-bash British and IDF figures into something SADF/SANDF-ish...

Rudi

Hi Greg
Dragon used to have some IDF figures that are suitable for alteration, They have the Galil in which is easy to alter to the R4. Main difficulty would be to resculpt the webbing and trousers to pattern the SANDF equipment but that is actually not too difficult, just time comsuming.

I have been asked to do this a few times and looked at the process, but always have had something else more important to do.

If you need some help feel free to ask.

RQS

Thanks for the welcome and the advice.

I have not tried figures before, let alone convert one but
I will give it a try thanks.

Hi
Could somebody tell how to contact Nick? I would like that Olifant conversion.

TIA
Dave.

Hi Greg,

Pop into Historicus Forma... there are plenty of friendly, talented folks there that are always willing to impart some useful advice about figures...

Rudi

hi ya
Ok can I throw ““a big spanner in the works “”and ask some serious questions, I have been trying to build one for ages and have been collecting information since 2000

Ok
Olifant 1a

(1) I have noticed allot of differences in up engine Centurions including STRV 104, SWISS, ISERALI, JORDAN, and DUTCH. These engine decks are yet again different. I want to confirm that the section with the gun rebound support is a split segment engine deck. Also how many segments on the sides of the hump 4, 5 ,6 not including the rear side one. how many access panels in the Hump 1,or 3 or none.
(2) On some of those used on the SENITIEL project there were even more differences i.e. they had fitted what I would call a Leopard 1 search light fitted to the left hand side of the gun above Coax gun. (like the Dutch version & Danish versions) BUT they also have the brackets fitted BOTH SIDES WHY?
(3) Some of the large turret bins on the Right sides of the turret are reinforced with ribs is the norm.
(4) Drivers front left hand side episcope is larger, is this so a night sight could be fitted possible image intensifier?
(5) When did the mesh extension to the rear right hand side of the large rear bin was fitted which houses the Fire extinguisher?
(6) Also how many radios were fitted 2 or 3?
(7) When was the turret ventilator changed I have seen two different types not including original version?
(8) When did they change from the registration number say R76277 to current numbering system?
(9) Was it the norm to write slogans on the rear bin like executioner with a white axe on the other side with 2B in the middle?
(10) How many could fit the mine roller system like the KMT4. Using what looks like the Ramta ( Israeli version also used by the Swedish but of different design) base plate but the headlights mounted in the middle.
(11) Now for the BIGGEST question, I have noticed which Centurions came from Jordanian easy to distinguish by the 6 bolt holes in the turret below the gun sight making them MK7 BUILD and not mk5 build like the rest. BDP941M 22a CALLSIGN. But the engine bay has been changed like those of an Mk 5 or was the turret changed. Reason is MK7 HULLS are not compatible with Mk5 due to the change of Bolt thread from UNC to UNF. What happened to the Mk7 extended hull which is easier to convert to an upgraded version due to all ready having a rear tank? Also Mk7 turrets are different externally as well.


Olifant 1B optimum

(1) I see that the Turret rear has been extended to take what looks like a rear Ammo bustle there fore moving the ammo from under the turn table. Does this mean that the suspension is now either Torsion bar with an extension added to the floor or is it Hydro gas bolted to the side s like (Swedish strv 105, Swiss, Jordanian versions). I have noticed all the other changes but this is the most radical due to the even wheel spacing’s
(2) I have also noticed that they are using the MK7 turrets for the 1b. is this also the norm.


There use to be a cracking website called about 61 Mech called
2002 Sentinel Projects
www.geocities.com/sadfbook/

but all the tank pictures are gone which included a lot of different tanks with different markings, fittings from dozer blades, mine ploughs to rollers. Great Reference material for the Olifant
gents if any one can help me just clarify a few things then I can build my Olifant.

http://militarymodelsreference.fotopic.net/p2298612.html
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/chris_baxter/olifant


http://uk.geocities.com/sasolboy/abens10.html

http://uk.geocities.com/sasolboy/abens20.html

http://uk.geocities.com/sasolboy/abens30.html

Try searching for Olifant

also look at Missing links modern where this subject has also been raised.Ossie




sorry for so many questions but these are just a few things i am stuck on Ossie

Sorry Ossie been a bit busy.

Olifant 1a

(1) From what I have been able to determine, the Olifant Engine deck is the same in shape as the Sho’t deck, with the exception of the following:

There are three ‘segments’ to the hump- the same as the IDF Nagmashot as in Legend’s LF1147 ‘IDF APC Nagmashot Conversion set’ which has the correct segmented panelling.
The rebound rubbers
Grills on all the side vents/louvers (plus a grilled vent set below the louvers as well) for obvious climactic & terrain differences.

(2) It’s a Xenon (searchlight) lamp. I have never seen anything fitted on the right hand side searchlight bracket, in the later models of the Mk1a the bracket has now been removed. Also most of the tanks that were with 4 SAI during Operation Hooper did not have the right hand side bracket.

(3) Actually all the turret side bins now have the three ribs. Up to the mid Mk1a No- after that Yes, it is now the norm.

(4) Yes

(5) From the earliest Mk1a tanks.

(6) 2 VHF for a normal troop car and 2 VHF and a HF for a command car. One or two command tanks did have an informal forth radio fitted in the form of a B75 UHF (ground to air comms), but this was the exception.

(7) Not too sure, as I have seen different type turret ventilators on early and late Olifants, might be a batch thing?

(8) IIRC early 90s

(9) As to the slogan- No, this was actually heavily frowned upon. Executioner, Excalibur (one of the ARVs) and IIRC Dominator/Devastator plus one or two others were the exceptions. Some of the slogans were already present, others added over time (there were also the usual chalked on Slogans- some were later sprayed on as paint became available). The photos you are referring to were taken at Ogongo, when the squadron returned to Omuthiya many of the tanks including Executioner (after about a month at Omuthiya) were replaced with factory fresh vehicles from Grootfontein.

IIRC Executioner was 52 (five-two, not fifty two) not 2B. 52 was the callsign 5 designates that it belongs to E Sqn and 2 shows it was the command car for troop 2 i.e. the lieutenant’s car. The callsigns were painted on every vehicle (there is a long and boring story to this as well). Tanks had their callsigns on the rear bin and airfilters.
The cars you see are from 61 Mech and before being deployed were training unit cars. The battleaxe (there are also scorpions, elephants, gauntlets, crossed axes etc.) is used to easily identify (at a glance) the different training squadron vehicles. Basically every Sqn, Battery, Company etc in the SADF had an emblem assigned to it, these were sprayed ad nauseum to every piece of equipment that belonged to that squadron (personnel included).
IIRC the vehicles that were attached to 4 SAI had no slogans. Below the callsign there was a small red tank though.

In the SADF & even now the SANDF each tank was/is assigned a ‘nickname’ according to its Registration number (R or M number). These nicknames are now stencilled on the commander cupola (Thanks Theunis for the photos).

(10) Oddly one of the three tanks left behind in Angola had a KMT4 fitted. The mine rollers were very rarely fitted and the base plate was only fitted when necessary. The norm was to fit the mine roller to a tank with an uprated (1000hp same as the ARV) engine, as the roller cause overheating, excessive dust and are hated by the crews. IIRC the mine rollers were bought direct from Israel with modification only to accept the Olifant’s lights.

(11) Thanks for the interesting recognition fact. Once the Centurions were upgraded by OMC to the Olifant, they were quite standardised. Not sure if the turret was mated to another hull or whether the hull was altered to conform to standards, someone from OMC should be able to help there. But I can tell you that no matter the mark of the Centurion, once rebuilt to Olifant spec, the parts only needed a medium- Hammer & crowbar to help them fit LOL!


As there are much more knowledgeable people out there on the Olifant 1B & optimum, I’ll leave these questions to them

Are you guys still there? If so, I just recieved my olifant conversion through Baxmod, along with a Ratel 20 ICV. A DVD came with the Olifant as has about 350+ pics of the actual tank, and 50+ of the kit, and kit in progress. From the pics I have, the conversion looks to be accurate, but still you need to scratch alot of stuff. Do not try to use this kit with the afv kits, as it will not fit. I now can do all the refits to my Nato Centurion from the conversion on my own. will send pics if you wish when projects are done.

the best way to convert figures that I have found is to use Games Workshop greenstuff it works great to redo clothes and load bearing gear. I use it for my 1/35 figs, and my 40k conversions. And yes get your hands on all the IDF figure kits you can they are the closest to SADF. Also if you can find it Italeri modern small arms set. It has G-3's and FN's, among others. FN's can be used as R1's. Lots of potential out there if you look around and use the old noodle. Cheers!!!!

Hi guys

I'm late coming to this party but just wanted to say how much I enjoyed this thread.

Theunis graciously sent me his Oliphant DVD last year and it's invaluable. I haven't had a chance to start my Oliphant project, in part because of I'm still trying to nail down the details - reading this thread I can see I'm not alone. I have the Red Carpet resin mod for the Tamiya Centurion, but it appears to have some problems so I'm thinking I may forego using it and work with the Legends S'Hot conversion instead.

If I ever get this project off the ground I'll be sure to post pics.

EDIT: As an aside, I found some scale drawings of the buffel and the casspir. If anyone's interested shoot me a line.

I recieved my conversion of the Olifant about aweek ago as I have said. From the many, many pics of the dvd, everything seems to look accurate and in place. I have measured, counted, and compared. Looks good!!! The main things left are the cages for the smoke dischargers, and headlamps, among a few other titems not covered with the conversion kit. I am also using it for a scratch build on my afv kit of the NATO centurion. The afv Aussie Centurion will be modified as a Semel. That is the Tank I need pics for. Did it have the 20 pounder, or an early 105? Maybe both? Was the engine deck modified or was it standard Centurion engine deck plates? It looks as though I have much work to do on these kits along with the Ratel 20 I purchased. Wish me luck. Cheers!

I have answered my own question. It had the Israeli modified rear deck, and a 20 pounder for main armament. 35 of these conversions were made and later upgraded to olifant mk1. Now did it have the save stowage system as the olifant? Also it had the Teledyne Continental AVDS-1720-2A diesel with the Allison 3 speed transmission. According to my sources,(from SA) these tanks were used in Namibia, and Southern Angola. Will contact my friends for info, and if there is any, will forward to those interested. Cheers

Would love to have the drawings !!!!!!!!!!

I'm confused. Baxmod has an Olifant kit? They don't have one listed on their website.

Is it a stand-alone kit? Or is it a conversion mod for an existing kit, e.g. the Tamiya/ModelCraft Centurion?

It's not the old Red Carpet Models conversion kit, is it?

P.S. - Casspir & buffel drawings are on the way.

The set is available to buy through BaxMod, but it is produced by a friend of Chris Baxter. The set is primarily for the Tamiya/Modelcraft kit, however I am currently waiting for a couple of parts to arrive which are for the AFV Club Cents.

I don't know if the conversion is same as the older Red Carpet version, sorry.

I too am waiting for the AFV club pieces. I have asked Chris if he knows if it is the Red Carpet molds. Get back to you on that.

It is not the old Red Carpet mold. It is produced by someone who works at the armor school in Bloemfontien. He actually sat by the actual tank, and produced the new mold. Told you they were really accurate. If anyone needs more info contact me.

okay. It seems I am the only one left here, so I shall ramble abit. I ahve started the Olifant conversion,and it is coming along nicely. the hull needs major cutting, but nothing too bad. It looks really good. Now for the blasted turret. Will post pics when I get a camera. Am starting on another Olifant and a Semel too. Ratel 20 is cleaning up well, and construction will start in the next week or two. Still purchasing figures for crew and infantry, then let the converting begin. Doing alot of SADF "what if's" also. I will keep you posted of my progress.

Don't worry, you're not left alone in the bush. We're all still enjoying this thread

I must admit I was surprised to hear that Chris was selling an Olifant. I wonder if it's the one by member of the IPMS Cape Town club? I must remember to ask around. Rumour is that when the Armour boys in Bloemfontein saw this particular model last year they were not particularly impressed...

But whether it is the Red Carpet design or the Cape Town one, both of these were designed for the old Tamiya Mk5 (?) kit - remember the AFV Centurion kits are relatively new.

A member emailed me about figure conversions to SADF and SANDF troops. The distinction being SADF being bush war soldiers and SANDF peace keepers - and I suppose SADF being the older gear (duh!)...

If anyone has any tips for conversions please feel free to share - especially those guys that served.

Rudi

Hi Rudi

Chris hasn't produced the set, it's made by a friend of his. It's not sold under the BaxMod banner.
I'm using parts of it in conjunction with Legend's 1973 IDF Centurion and a Modelcraft Cent.

Cheers
Dave.

Rudi, I belieave that member was me. I also think the kit does the Olifant justice. It matches up with all the pictures I have, and those i have seen on the net. I like to be difficult, sorry it's another hobby.

Also Rudi, I don't mind being left alone in the bush, I was a sniper. LOL