I wonder,
If you talk to most people about the Second World War they know it as the war of 40-45 (like the know the First World War as the 14-18 war)
How is that?? I mean in reality the war started in September 1939 and UK en France declared war on Germany in 39.
So how is it that people dont refer to WW2 as the 39-45 war, any insights?
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why do they call it the war of '40-'45?
Roadkill
Member Since: June 09, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 01:29 AM UTC
Halfyank
Member Since: February 01, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 04:23 AM UTC
Who is it who calls it that? If you mean people in Belgium I would say they are right, as far as their country. Belgium wasn't attacked by Germany until May 1940, and I don't supposed it was fully free until 1945.
The Soviets call it the Great Patriotic War. I seem to recall some Brits calling it 39-45. In America I've never heard it called anything but World War II.
As an aside in Robert A Heinlein's book Starship Troopers, I think it was, I believe he called it something like the second phase of the great 20th century war.
The Soviets call it the Great Patriotic War. I seem to recall some Brits calling it 39-45. In America I've never heard it called anything but World War II.
As an aside in Robert A Heinlein's book Starship Troopers, I think it was, I believe he called it something like the second phase of the great 20th century war.
Hollowpoint
Member Since: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 04:26 AM UTC
Ronny: I'm not sure your observation is necessarily correct. I mean, even Dragon has "1/35th '39-'45 Series" written on lots of their kits.
It is generally held that World War II began Sept. 1, 1939 with the German invasion of Poland. Granted, Britain and France declared war, but they didn't do much but talk tough and rattle sabers until Germany rolled into France on May 1940.
Perhaps the folks who use 1940 as the starting point are looking at it from the point of when fighting began in the West -- granted, a pretty narrow view. A lot of people -- then and now -- don't recognize things are happening until it effects them directly.
It is generally held that World War II began Sept. 1, 1939 with the German invasion of Poland. Granted, Britain and France declared war, but they didn't do much but talk tough and rattle sabers until Germany rolled into France on May 1940.
Perhaps the folks who use 1940 as the starting point are looking at it from the point of when fighting began in the West -- granted, a pretty narrow view. A lot of people -- then and now -- don't recognize things are happening until it effects them directly.
Zacman
Member Since: January 27, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It is generally held that World War II began Sept. 1, 1939 with the German invasion of Poland. Granted, Britain and France declared war, but they didn't do much but talk tough and rattle sabers until Germany rolled into France on May 1940.
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Britian didn't declare war with Germany untill the 3rd of sept 1939!
spooky6
Member Since: May 05, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:27 PM UTC
I've never heard it referred to as anything but WW2 or '39-'45.
Roadkill
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 03:03 PM UTC
I noticed it before when talking to people about it but in a short while my son (12 years) has exames and i whas looking in to his history book and noticed that in the official book the war started in 1940.
for me that is totaly wrong and the fact that they start with the invasion of Belgium is also something that i find upsetting because it denies the hardship Poland had to endure.
So I was just venting
for me that is totaly wrong and the fact that they start with the invasion of Belgium is also something that i find upsetting because it denies the hardship Poland had to endure.
So I was just venting
spooky6
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 06:00 PM UTC
Well, Ronny, I guess it's not 'wrong' from a Belgian perspective, since as someone said, the war started for Belgium in '40. Just a bit of a narrow view. Sort of as if an American textbook would put the start of WW2 as December '41.
Hohenstaufen
Member Since: December 13, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:14 PM UTC
I've never heard it referred to as anything other than the '39 - '45 or WW2. However, the 1st World War (Great War), is also called the 1914-1919 war, as the Peace Treaty wasn't signed at Versailles until 1919. From November 1918 until the signing, there was an Armistice (cease-fire).
If you were Chinese, you might make the point that everyone else was late in WW2, their war started in 1931...
If you were Chinese, you might make the point that everyone else was late in WW2, their war started in 1931...
Mahross
Member Since: March 12, 2002
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Posted: Monday, June 05, 2006 - 02:18 AM UTC
I have to agree with Steve there, when I did my module on WW2 at university it was from 1933 to 1945. This wasn't to do with the rise of Hitler but the outbreak of war between Japan and China.
It is interesting to note what we call these events. I had an interesting exchange of emails with a chap who took offence at my title for the new historical society I am in the process of setting up. He suggested it shoulf be called the World War Two Historical Society. However, the problem with this is should I change it to suit everyone. The Russians know it as the Great Patriotic War and in Germany it is Die Zwiete Welt Krieg. As they say a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Ross
It is interesting to note what we call these events. I had an interesting exchange of emails with a chap who took offence at my title for the new historical society I am in the process of setting up. He suggested it shoulf be called the World War Two Historical Society. However, the problem with this is should I change it to suit everyone. The Russians know it as the Great Patriotic War and in Germany it is Die Zwiete Welt Krieg. As they say a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Ross
Hollowpoint
Member Since: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Monday, June 05, 2006 - 05:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
As they say a rose by any other name is still a rose.
I disagree.
The Great Patriotic War was the Soviets' name for their part of the larger World War II. It is their war against the Germans (and thier European allies) from about June 22, 1941 to May 8, 1945.
NOT part of the Great Patriotic War was the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, when the Soviets broke their neutrality with Japan on Aug. 8, 1945. It was called Operation August Storm -- an interesting footnote in the history of World War II.
The 2nd Sino-Japanese War either started in 1931 or 1937 (depending upon which history text you go to) and continued through Sept. 9, 1945.
I'd define the start of World War II with the declaration of war by the original Allied Powers of Poland, France and Great Britain in 1939.
Golikell
Member Since: October 25, 2002
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Posted: Monday, June 05, 2006 - 12:13 PM UTC
Overhere in the Netherlands, it is called '40-'45 too. This might be related to the fact that till 10 May 1940, the Dutch stance was strictly neutral? I know this seems narrow minded but to believe that a country wedged between Germany and the UK at war and with the availebility of modern hardware such as long range bombers, which neccesitates the need for escorts and therefore the use of nearby airfields, could remain neutral, is narrowminded too imho.
spooky6
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Posted: Monday, June 05, 2006 - 12:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'd define the start of World War II with the declaration of war by the original Allied Powers of Poland, France and Great Britain in 1939.
I tend to agree with this definition. While there were ceratin wars going on prior to 1939, it was the entry of world powers such as Britain & France, and the subsequent broad alliances that then came into being on both sides that defined this conflict a 'world war'.
blaster76
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Posted: Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 01:19 AM UTC
It is interesting that the Manchurian invasion of 1931 is not considered the start. But it is possible that it was the only place there was any fighting and it was only between 2 countries, hence it wasn't a world war. In 1939, when the Germans invaded Poland; France, Britain, Italy, and Russia all got involved, or at least declared war on someone, thus making it a world war. (Remeber, Russia did invade Poland and take a slice of it alongside the Germans)
wbill76
Member Since: May 02, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 03:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Great Patriotic War was the Soviets' name for their part of the larger World War II. It is their war against the Germans (and thier European allies) from about June 22, 1941 to May 8, 1945.
NOT part of the Great Patriotic War was the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, when the Soviets broke their neutrality with Japan on Aug. 8, 1945. It was called Operation August Storm -- an interesting footnote in the history of World War II.
I'd define the start of World War II with the declaration of war by the original Allied Powers of Poland, France and Great Britain in 1939.
Don't forget the Russian role in the invasion/partition of Poland, their Winter War with Finland, and of course the less well known border clash with Japanese troops in 1941, all prior to Barbarossa kicking off the "Great Patriotic" part of the war.
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