Along the line of the figure painting classes they had a while back and the AFV painting class that's being proposed now.. would something like this be possible with scratchbuilding? I was thinking if someone has a simple plan for a simple vehicle or conversion, it could be posted where interested modellers could save it. And then we could all follow the basic steps of reading the plan, dividing it into subassemblies, cutting the plastic.. etc.. I've done some simple items like closets and shelves where I made up the plan and measurments. But I always have a problem reading a plan and implementing it, or taking measurements from a pic or something like that.

Anyway, just a thought.... well, more like wishful thinking!

Hello Hisham:

I think your idea has a lot of merit and would support
it. In this era of PE and resin parts, I wonder if many of
the younger modelers who were not around in the
1960s and 70s, meaning scratchbuilding was the only
way to add details, interiors, wheel well details, etc.,
feel that there is no reason for scratchbuilding.

I am of the rather strong opinion that modelers who are
wanting to grow as model builders, want to work on
constantly improving their skill level (and I realize
there is a group of model builders who just want to
put it together for the collection they're planning, etc.
not getting involved in a lot of tedius hours over the table
— and there is nothing wrong with that approach,
naturally — and wouldn't be interested in a scratch-
building forum or series of articles) that this
group of modelers might want to consider the
following point: I feel that the exercise of scratchbuilding
is a practice that definitely strengthens a modeler's
skills, so that they become more disciplined, become
better at problem solving, etc. etc. I use PE and a lot
of resins sets too, but I still continue to scratchbuild;
and I think it is the scratchbuilding that has helped me
to improve.

Hi Hisham. A good idea, and Id also be interested if this came about. On this subject though, I recommend you get your hands on Shep Paine´s "modelling tanks and military vehicles". All the things (and more)that you suggested are well covered in this book. Keep your eye on Ebay for this.You could pick it up at a nice price!

I don't see why we couldn't get one started. The only thing, we would have to come up with a subject to start with.

I think that we could do something like this. Anyone have a project for starters? Here is an article I wrote a while back showing a conversion of the M-35 to M 54. https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/301

Ooooooh!!!!! ........do my eyes deceive me
...Do you really understand what you are asking??? ---------exposing the masses (well --a few) :-) :-) ---to the""FORCE /Dark-side""-----you could be "excomunicated "from here--or even "sent to coventry"--for even thinking about it ..
This is not in the "modern idiom ".....no AM - -no -PE -......pure plastic sheet and rods - --with a bit of molding - ---a bit of simplification ---WOW!!!---is it possible
It will never come to fruition ---WHY??----because it is not "the done thing"--to go back to BASICS--- reading the plan----measuring ---scribing --cutting ----filing---fitting ---gluing---compounded with frustration when it don't fit ----or it breaks on the last cut---
DO YOU WANT to have this on your concience
for the rest of your life
Yes!!!!!-----well OK ---i'M -""IN"" .........in fact ...if there are enough out there willing to come to the "dark-side"...I have a little box of bits that can be used to set up . :-) :-) :-) --
YEP ..its a recovery vehicle ---(so thats killed it dead )
See now its down the "tubes"--or is it enough to generate some enthusiasm -------:| ----(Can see me being chastised for even offering )
Stand up and be counted --Oh Yee of Little ""FORCE"" ----post or be damned ---
"IN "-or "OUT"
Do you want to try this ..(1997- from pics--pre AA ...{and bits work})

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)

Hey there Steve:

Aw dude, knock me out. . . . "Shut Up". . . . your note
was so funny. . . .true, but funny. Dark side, indeed. We
will see, mate. Stand up and be counted as Steve
proclaims.

BTW, my distant relatives tell me that "Brownlee" is
a Scottish name. . . Well, so there 'splains why ah
thinks jour so funny. . . .

Have a great weekend . . . with that 1997 vehicle. . .
oh ma' gosh . . . recovery vehicle!!!!

Honestly, any modeler would benefit from a good scratch-building tutorial. If it wasn't for the fact that I've built a lot of custom homes (1:1), I wouldn't even attempt to scratchbuild. It looks a lot scarier than it really is. I'm in.

Dark side?....there IS no darkside. Evergreen molds in pure white!

He he he,
Cuhail

Hell, yeah! I've done a fair bit of scratchbuilding, but I'm always willing to learn more! How's about a simple s/b interior for one of the more popular mainstream kits like a Tiger (okay, maybe that subject has been done to death), KT, Panther or Sherman. My idea would be to start with the fundamentals, then each progressive tutorial could enlighten everyone to more complex and involved build.
I too feel that true scratchbuilding, even simply embellishing a kit, is becoming a lost art. Most modelers choose for one reason or another to purchase the components they need to improve their models rather than spend the time researching, designing and building their own. That's cool .... but I still feel there is a semi-silent group of modelers who, given a bit of direction and support, would love to delve into scratchbuilding!

Mike Kirchoff

To tell you the truth, I thought this post would just die out with no replies. So, I'm really glad there's so much interest. Now the problem is how to get this organized. Dave's project looks like a good start. Also, if you guys have a truck kit like Italeri's Mercedes L3000 for instance, we could work on making it into a field work shop. That would involve basic shapes and maybe a couple of simple curves to deal with. Or, I think I saw once something like the deuce and a half made into a field kitchen type vehicle.

What is it with men and curves, anyway!!!

So, who will take the lead? I guess Dave would be the natural choice, being the host and all. But are you willing? And do you have the patience to lead a lot of infants and help them take baby steps. You have to realize that you're going to have to talk in very simple basic terms to people who don't know the first thing about the subject. Any of you guys has the patience for that?

Again, like they did in the figure classes, we could take it one or two steps a week, which woiuld allow time for everyone to try that step. Whoever decides to lead this could decide on a day (say Monday) where we would check in and see the progress and the next step. Does that sound simple enough?

I would really love for this to take off, and I'm willing to do anything to help it along. Just let me know what you want me to do.

Steve.. I would love to tackle something like that recovery vehicle..... Yeah, in my dreams.

Roger... those shapes you have could be a good starter subject also, with all those curves and angles.

Well, I hope one of you guys decides to take the lead and organize this. I think a lot of people would benefit from it.

Hmmm yes well and no I don't think the world is ready for this.

First lesson is ....research research and even more research.

Second lesson is.... don't be shocked half way through building your XYZ that more reference photos turn up proving that you have AB &C upside down and yes it is VERY BLOODY NOTICEABLE

If you can survive lesson 2 OK then you start on lesson 3 and put it to bits and return to lesson 1.

Here ends the first three steps.

cheers
Cliff

PS> at this time I do not have the time to start anything in a type of group build teaching class but I will comment where necessary.

I scratchbuild 1/700th ships. Fairly simple builds but neat to me. MMAS Sydney and USS San Fransisco and USS Helena. The biggest thing is to "finish" a scratch. And worry about improved technique next one.

Oh yeah, oh yeah! Me me me! I'm up for it!

I fished this piece out of my scrap box. I had made it for a factory/workshop, but I hated it so I threw it away. It's in 1/35 scale ofcourse, but the pic just came out too big! It's all broken up now, but you can basically see why I need a class like this.
Just try to keep your laughing to a minimum, please.

Looks okay to me!

Heh heh... you're too kind... and polite, my friend.

Hisham:

Thanks for including that shot of your factory workshop
piece of scratchbuilding. Something in a less complex
and more simple "structure" like this would be a very
good way to start; i.e. explanation of the metal straight
edge required to cut sheet styrene on a
cutting matt, tips for cutting a circle in styrene, etc. etc.

I guess this answers my original question with a "NO".

Oh well, it was a nice dream while it lasted.

Its funny, I started building models when I was a kid of about 10 years old, and by 12, I thought I was pretty good at it. I built everything basically OOTB, and painted everything according to the directions. I quit for a while, and started again about 3 years ago at 31. Today, I can not even imagine building a model straight out of the box. Its almost sacreligeous. You start, and you know the company that made the kit missed lots of details. Now we have photo etch parts, resin cast parts, custom decals, and even better, THE INTERNET to do research, view pictures of real vehicles without going to museums, and have great web sites like this one where we can all share our experiences, skills, and ideas. I know now that the models I built as a kid werent anything compared to what I build now. Nearly ALL of the new skills I learned, I owe to the people on this web site. These skills have made modelling a fun hobby again. So, in a sense, scratch building is what has kept me interested in this hobby for the past 3 years, and I think a scratch building class would be a really great idea. Id be more then hapy to share the tricks Ive learned with new modelers. I actually proposed this to the owner of my local hobby store not too long ago. We are somewhat friends and he had mentioned to me that the only people building models any more were adults, and absolutely no kids were coming in to buy anything. I also suggested he offer a free class to kids to teach them the beasics and stir their interest. Unfortunately, he never ran with the idea, and still has a very small slow hobby store. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water...............

Gary

PS - to everyone on this site, THANK YOU for all your help and for making this a fun hobby for me again!

I guess I will sign up for something like this. (Damn you Barv :-) ).

Erik

Hisham....
..I think the idea is magic........BUT......there is a "fear element "that may need to be resolved before many will take to it ......the "unknown "is some -thing that many times stops ideas progressing
Maybe some day we will find out if this is the case ..or..... most modern builders have no need of the application of thought to surmount obstacles ----""If its not in the kit or A-M ...ITS NOT NEEDED"""
So -much for progress ........I did offer ......but its not what people are prepared to build ...so thank you again for the good intentions ........and original thought
May the""Force""continue..through adversity!!!
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)
ps----Erik behave or you will have to scratch another model
:-) :-) :-) :-)

Yes Sir!







(...and I will scratch another model)

Dunno BARV, at least three of us were up for it.