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Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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1967 - War that changed a region
sniper
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 03:55 AM UTC
Was wondering if we could get a discussion going about a more modern conflict. In this case the '67 war in the Middle East.

Maybe one of you guys (DJ!) has a good question or some comments.

Certainly it was a battle that had many outcomes, many that are still being felt today.

Steve
210cav
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 05:05 AM UTC
Wow! Not exactly my cup of tea, but I never shy away from a challenge. How about --- "As a result of the Camp David accord, the United States placed a military force in the Sinai desert between Egypt and Israel. Is this force still required?"
DJ
sniper
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 06:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow! Not exactly my cup of tea, but I never shy away from a challenge. How about --- "As a result of the Camp David accord, the United States placed a military force in the Sinai desert between Egypt and Israel. Is this force still required?"
DJ


What a question. With a proposed Israeli pull out of Gaza, that's a timely issue. Would/could there be a US intervention?
Halfyank
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 06:58 AM UTC
Is there even a need for a conventional intervention force? Wouldn't you say that most conflicts in the Middle East are going to be unconventional in nature, i.e. terrorist or gorilla?

210cav
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 07:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Is there even a need for a conventional intervention force? Wouldn't you say that most conflicts in the Middle East are going to be unconventional in nature, i.e. terrorist or gorilla?



The purpose as I recall of the American force was to preclude either side from utilizing the Mitla Pass (I am spitballing here) to invade the other. We currently station a full time support force and a rotational battalion there in compliance with the Accord. Can someone correct anything I mis stated? After we figure out how accurate I am, I believe we can address your question on the type of unit that might prove most beneficial, if at all, to the mission.
DJ
blaster76
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 09:27 AM UTC
I was not aware we had a "peace-keeping" force at Mitla Pass. I thought after the 73 War and the Camp David accords Egypt and Israel had come to terms and there was relative peace btwn them. How enlightening. I also thought that Israel had backed pretty much out of the Siani region. Personally I think that it is far past time for them to do so. But going back to the war. Man that was something. They took a page right out of Robert E. Lee's textbook.....defeat in detail. Magnificent!!!!!!!!!
sniper
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 12:51 PM UTC
DJ, I didn't think we still had forces there. Maybe someone can enlighten us all here.

If it is true, I have not heard news of this recently.

Steve
Hollowpoint
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 03:59 PM UTC
Plenty of U.S. troops still in the Sinai: http://home.tiscali.be/danielle.bangels/scalemodeling/paint_cross_reference_chart.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2002/08/mil-020802-afis01.htm
mikeli125
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 08:50 PM UTC
wow thats something I never knew as you never hear anything about it how do the local's take to them given the events of the past decade?
210cav
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Posted: Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 11:27 PM UTC
As Bob demonstrated, we have a sizeable American cointingent in the Sinai. Having established this, we move onto the question---"should they stay there?"
DJ
Halfyank
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 12:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

should they stay there?"


I want to play devil's advocate here and throw out this question. When did the American people ever vote to be the world's police force? Please don't get me wrong, I support our troops where ever they are, but why is it that are troops are in harm's way all over the world doing peace keeping duty like this?

210cav
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 02:17 AM UTC
I believe we undertake these missions for two resons. One, we have a credible and reliable military force. Two, we are the only ones who will sustain such a force. I do not know if the Canadian police Cyprus using UN money or fund it themselves. But, those great guys are about the only other national force I can bring to mind that is monitoring a peace settlement. Can anyone think of someone else doing this type duty for as long as the Canadians and Americans have performed it?
DJ
sniper
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 02:58 AM UTC

>>Currently about 850 U.S. soldiers serve in the MFO; most are from the Oregon National Guard.
mikeli125
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 03:12 AM UTC
yes the British have been doing it in Cyprus along the border these come under UN control as well with the sovereign bases that also house troops
210cav
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 07:13 AM UTC
Where are the British performing these duties (outside Iraq)? Bosnia?
mikeli125
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 11:06 AM UTC
have a look here its not the full listing but covers most of the main areas not forgetting that Britan has been acting in a policing role for well over 60 years, Palastine, Malaya,Kenya (maumau) Aden but to name a few
Ranger74
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 01:45 PM UTC
I have seen some traffic on the US pulling out of the Sinai. We are stretched too thin. Now one manuever battalion and a support force may not seem like much, but it takes a brigade of troops per year to keep a force in the Sinai (Six month tours). Add Bosnia, Kosovo, Philippines, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Qatar, Iraq, Cuba, Korea, Germany, Italy, Brlgium, etc., etc., and it adds up.
210cav
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 02:21 PM UTC
Jeff-- given the spread of troop concentrations and your belief (mine too) that we are spread too thin, where do you either withdraw or cut back. Bosnia is my first choice. Sinai is next. Bosnia is not at a mangeable level for the European Reaction Corps to assume command. What do you guys think?
DJ
mikeli125
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 08:15 PM UTC
I think that the balkans can/should be looked after by other forces the British have been there for just over 10 years now and size/commitment ratio we are more over stretched than the US forces due to the high level of Op tours ect around 15,000 soldiers a year leave
but they only get about 3/4 of that to replace them we are well short of the required amount not only that but it plays havoc with the troops private lives and has a knock on effect time to pull out and rest our troops
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 12:28 AM UTC
In my admittedly highly uninformed state, I would declare victory and pull every Soldier out of the Balkans. It's a European challenge that we have carried for far too long.
DJ
mikeli125
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 10:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

In my admittedly highly uninformed state, I would declare victory and pull every Soldier out of the Balkans. It's a European challenge that we have carried for far too long.
DJ

for which nation? as only recently british troops set a ecord for being deployed there after fighting broke out in Kosovo troops were in there in less than 24 hrs after getting their notice to move order
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 01:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

In my admittedly highly uninformed state, I would declare victory and pull every Soldier out of the Balkans. It's a European challenge that we have carried for far too long.
DJ

for which nation? as only recently british troops set a ecord for being deployed there after fighting broke out in Kosovo troops were in there in less than 24 hrs after getting their notice to move order

So, am I incorrect in that the US has almost a divison (15,000 to 18,000) people in the Balkans?
DJ
mikeli125
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 06:27 PM UTC
not sure of the total forces involved but NATO asked for more troops to be rushed into Kosovo recently to help quell rival fighting andd the spearhead regiment moved in I do however think that the new member NATO states should now do the policing and let the longer serving countries withdraw
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 11:26 PM UTC
The only thing I am sure of is that for the US, it has become a mission allocated to the reserve and national guard. I know we built a large infrastructure over there I also believe it is time to get out of there completely.
DJ
Ranger74
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Posted: Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 05:52 AM UTC
I believe we have a division equivalent in the Balkans, not counting the air power tied down in Italy as support. It is almost exclusively a Reserve Component mission, which makes it even more critical to withdraw. These RC units are now not available or are of limited availablity for other world wide missions. THE ARMY (all three components) is so desparate for truck drivers (MOS 88M) that Soldiers with a secondary or tertiary MOS of 88M are being cross-leveled to fill gaps and to even build completely new units. In my reserve unit we have lost the CGs driver, our AGR motor sergeant, and one or two others that I can't recall to become truck drivers. Almost all of hte unit's commo personnel have been mobilized out of our HQs. So yes we are stretched thin.
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