AMS
abbr.
Advanced Modellers Syndrome.

n. Abbr. AMS
A chronic, progressive disease marked by the need to add premium Photo-etched metal sets, resin updates and turned aluminum barrels (or whatnot) to every kit and project, resulting in the project costing 2-5 times the price of the original kit and hampering productive building of said kits unless every nut and bolt is scrupulously in place. Also called Greenland's disease.

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Greetings all,

Just wanted to vent a little about a modelling topic that has bothered me for a while and today has reared it's ugly head. I'm refering to AMS (see above).

I am finding that I cannot model as much in the past while (try almost a couple of years) as I like simply because I feel this compulsive need to do everything perfectly, with all the PEM, resin, etc, etc. I am missing the fun of this hobby, all due to this rather unfortunate state of affairs. It has driven me to other distractions (dabbling in Games Workshop and recently R/C) but I would like to return to my first love; armour and figures.

So today, I went up to a well-known local hobby shop to see about some great bargains, picked up the Trumpeter Strv 103 C, simply because I've always wanted one in my collection, but I don't see a great need to super detail it (the eduard set is nice but not absolutely necessary). I'm talking with the proprietor about the lovely new Tamiya T-55 as well. Present is the store 'helper' (a self-confessed 'Hobby shop groupie').

In a manner reminiscent of the comic book store guy (think fat loser from the Simpsons) the helper pipes in with with how I should (must) replace the S-tank's tracks with Leopard 2 tracs from AFV club, and how the Tamiya kit 'needs' the Eduard PEM set with ABER aluminum barrel and of course the Fruili metal tracks!! He wouldn't do his three Finnish T-55s without them!!!

I find this behaviour/attitude to be rather condescending and frankly rude. He may spend his entire income on model accessories if he so wishes, but I cannot. Nor should I (or anyone else for that matter) be made to feel that I have to by a modelling snob. The T-55 is one of Tamiya's best kits to date, and is standard setting; one should not 'have' to add anything to it to make a great model.

The worst part is that it re-enforced the feeling in some that you cannot have a decent model worth any praise unless you accessorizes your kit with every aftermarket item you can. I find this to negatively impact both longtime modellers such as myself and newer modellers equally. This is just the way to chase people out of the hobby, not get them into it.

I do not have anything against aftermarket Items; heck, I've used them before and loved them and intend to do it again. It's just that if a new or experienced modeller feels that he want's to do some kits OOTB, he should not be made to feel that his effort is 'inferior' or 'a backwards step'.

Do you agree?, disagree?, not care? Let us know.

That's why I just slapped together the 1/76 scale Matchbox Comet for the UK build and did a 1/72 scale Dragon Elefant for an AMPS group build and tossed in the PIOmodels 1/72 scale Bergepanther. Don't have a single reference for any of these variants and just wanted a few simple builds. Only the PIOmodels kit includes resin and PE since it is a conversion of the Revell kit.

Got to love the simple kits that go together right out of the box.

Edit: But I do love to add aluminum barrels and like to work with PE, it is challenging and takes you to the next level.

When said snob approaches you with his recommnedations for "improving" the base kit, look him stright in the eye and thank him for he suggestions but you're building the kit to compete in the out of box category. (Which could be the absolute truth.) Or put on your best bad acting school cloak and pontificate that you have already made a set of tracks for the kit that surpases... #:-) Naw, keep it simple, just smile and tell him you know all that but you really want to do a quick build for your collection. Youre' beholding to no one but yourself. Feel free to do as much or as little as you want to produce the model you want.

I would argue you can build many fine kits OOTB from Tamiya and the like. I look at several I have finished in the past two yeahrs, the T-55, FAMO and GMC. All are wonderful kits and the FAMO has won several awards without an ounce of PE.
I respect those guys who do the PE and all, and it does add to some kits. But I agree that there really is something to be said for building OOTB, after all, you;re already dropped $55 (USD) for the T-55, it's hard to sink more Loonies and Toonies into it after that!!!

Guys like that just want to project an image of being 'hardcore.'

your points are valid but take him with the grain of proverbial salt.

As AJ eloquently stated 'beholden to no one but yourself.'

As long as youre happy ...
:)

ahh...the model shop groupie, A.K.A DA rivit counter, who hasen't come up against one of these vile beings before? The only AM that I like are indy links and turned barrels, partly because AM links make the model build longer.and thus, more fun, and for the barrel, because I HATE TO SAND OFF SEAMLINES!!!! #:-)

I guess I would have to say I agree, don't agree, and don't care all at the same time.

I agree that annoying know-it-all's at hobby shops can be dangerous to your health. I'd ask said slob to produce a built kit so that I could judge for myself is his extra money was worth it in the end. That may shut him up or at least slow him up so that you can make a get away. (I'd bet his models aren't so hot. Of course I don't believe in gambing...)

I don't agree because sometimes advice about a kits flaws can be a good heads-up. For things I don't have references for, I may build something completely innacurate. Not that that's against the law, just that if I spend time on something, I want to know what's wrong before deciding to fix it or not. I built that T-55 and think it's great. I did replace the tracks with metal aftermarket. That was my choice. One thing I did not to, and feel it was a mistake, was to make lines for the fuel tanks. An easy job that would have cost me nothing. For me, this really takes away from the final kit.

And I don't care because, well because I build OOB and super detailed. That's my choice and I'm happy with it. (Even if I do choose to build a kit mostly OOB, I still find things I can improve on every kit. That's a big part of the fun.) Right now I'm doing 1/72 kits and there's not much aftermarket. So, I either have to live with what's there or make my own aftermarket!

I for one am glad there are those perfectionists out there. I feel it makes the manufactures do more research and give us those better kits we now get. And, it creates an aftermarket industry that gives us more choices where to spend our money. Those super detailed masterpieces also give us all something to aspire to.

Have fun doing whatever and avoid the hobby store geek! #:-)

Steve

Just different style approaching modeling I guess. Some could say that they are fed up with simple approach to kits too...

But just do whatever you like, it's your hobby, not other's. I never tried to pressure people to do all the AM stuff, nor encourage them to do just OOB, but I do extensive AM stuff on almost all kits I do, and the result IS slightly better than OOB, just don't go around in hobby store and talk about it, that's all. #:-)

I thank you all for your contributions of sanity. This subtly abrasive individual was also showing distinctive signs that he still lived in the Cold War (only doing Finnish T-55; thinks the only really good T-34/54/55/62/64/72/80 is a dead one - thanks to his Carl Gustav; refers constantly to his time in Germany with the Canadian army in the 70's) and spouts on about finding eastern philosophy, martial arts and Jesus, with a surprising lack of humility inherent in any of the aformentioned beliefs/practices.

I think I will avoid conversation with this individual as he is conducive to an elevation of my blood pressure and will ruin my visit to any shop he frequents.

I agree - when AMS gets in the way of enjoying the hobby of modeling.

I do have a soft spot for turned barrels - as a main focal point of any tank model it needs to be flawless. So instead of messing with getting a kit barrel perfect- I'll just spend the extra $10 for a turned barrel. My one main vice

But flawless can take different forms - I built the Trumpeter S-tank a few month's ago - OOTB - and had fun building it. Not being used to the softer plastic, I goofed a little on the barrel (sanded too much on one spot). Instead of replacing it with a turned barrel, I'll just use Hudson & Allen Pine Boughs to detail the tank, and use some pine boughs to cover the bad spot on the barrel.

I have wondered what the difference would be between an AMS model, and an OOTB model. As such I'm planning to build two Tamiya Panthers - Late G. One will have all aftermarket - barrel, PE Fruil tracks, etc, etc. The other will be OOTB. Once done I'll sit them side by side and compare.
This project was an afterthought prompted by an earlier AMS discussion on Armorama. I had planned to build the Panther with all PE, Fruil, etc, and after reading the AMS discussion, I picked up another Late G cheap from Hong Kong on ebay.

But, I build for fun and as an outlet of artistic energy - not in anyway to impress Comic Book Guy.
So I'll only 'AMS' for myself, not for anyone else.

Peter

This is why I'm a confirmed OOTB builder. If I can't make it, I won't buy it. I have never used PE, or aftermarket tracks or barrels. I'm only willing to buy aftermarket decal sheets. I'm lucky that my two favorite model shops don't push the aftermarket stuff on you. They have it behind the counter, and are willing to order whatever you want, but the don't push it on you.

To get the AMS out of your system my prescription is that you get a cheap kit and build it OOTB. No aftermarket, no scratchbuilding; just OOTB.

AMS:
I've been modelling for 30+ yrs, I've bought 1 aluminum barrel. As for the Photo etch, and the resin? I usually only add these items when the kit is just in dire need of making it look more presentable and accurate. The only cure for AMS is OOB. That way your bound by no after market stuff. But I have to admit, that sometimes I DO want the PE parts and the resin details. For some reason the after market stuff can do more than the injection kits, I dont know why that is? But an OOB build is what keeps you grounded and if you cant improve your basic skills the EXTRA DETAILS $$$ wont help you.

I try to go OOB.
But,
I like SOME aluminum barrels,especially if they do NOT have a muzzle brake.If they do,I stick with the kit tube,no joint to try to fill.When I buy a kit,I look to see what is in the PE aftermarket.If I can use modeling skills to thin down a component to = the PE part,I can pass on the PE.But once in a while there are some goodies on a fret that make the model look better to my eye.
And that's just it.....make it look good to your eye.

Now,next time,ask the expert to show you one of his finished models,so you can decide if you really want to go that route...

I admire the guys who can do the superfine pe stuff. But I don't have the patience or skill.
I belive that your hobby should be fun. Build what you want, the way you want.
Chuck

Like religion, I am an AMS sufferer , but do not force my beliefs on others... :-)

I did a super-dee-duper 'throw the kitchen sink at the model' Panther for AMPS 02 with the intent of being promoted to the advanced level. I barely missed and was disappointed, but had a blast with all the various aftermarket options. I'll keep building kitchen sink models, for the challenge.

Like Sabot said, having a pressure relief build (read as pile of slammers) can be very theraputic as well. I build 1/72 historic a/c to hang from the ceiling fo my classroom in a timeline of powered flight.
None of them are anything special, except to the 10yr olds who sit under them. They always get a kick out of finding a new plane in the line and figuring out what it is.

As for the great unwashed hobbyshop guy, come in with a wife/girlfriend and better yet a well behaved kid and ask him about his...

Mike

Well I Like working with PE and Resin so HA! I have been working with Resin and PE from the Verlinden M151A1/A2 Update/Conversion set and ive been using Resin Verlinden Heads.
(Which I lovethe details of instead of using the stock DML ones)

I think its fun trying to have a model look alot like the real one by adding Details from Resin and PE

Do what you want to do with your models. Its your time, your money and your world. Have fun, or its just more work.

Sealhead (Kansas Sunflower)

I think OOB now and then is good for the soul... You finish quick, so it's a sense of accomplishment.. I try to plan oob's every now and then.... Academy Honey was a great one to do oob.. Also DML's Stug toC/D...

Sometimes.. I'll start a kit, intending to do OOB.. and then just stray a lil to the AMS side.. but I definately do buy some kits orignally intending to do OOB... Only thing is, when I'm on a streak of trying to behave (not buying New kits).. I end up buying AM as an excuse not to buy new kits!!! aaaaaah the addiction.. it's a fun one!!!

#:-)

Next time tell him how wonderful his suggestions are, then ask him to fund it for you. You can also point out that for model competitions, it ain't all the extras you put on, it's how well you build

Shutting up the model store groupie is as simple as saying: "Keep your PE. I scratchbuild."

The phony hardcore modeller will crumble...

This is actually my philospophy... If someone else can build it, so can I. I may not have all the fancy equipment, but I can improvise and I can find the right material to make what I need.

This site has been a great help in this area. There are threads all over on making your own PE parts. Aside from PE, you can use everyday materials to achieve results the groupie could not even dream up!

Scratchbuilding is a great way to counteract AMS too. It's fun to research and experiment to get the right results. I'm sure the model makers intentionally slack on the detail to "force" the perfectionist (which we modelers eventually all become) to purchase the aftermarket stuff. So, either buy the stuff there's no aftermarket for or become your own aftermarket.

I think there is room for both. Looking down on someone for doing OOB is a No No though. Time, money and personal preference have much to do with it.

i just like to build right out of the box.
some day i will add a nice barrel and some white metal tracks

I tend to build OOB but of course add extras like tarps, storage boxes, packs. I also was in a Toronto hobby store and had the same experience!! I thanked him for his input and that I was well aware of what was available / needed. I also respect those who prefer AMS and often envy their work. Like most things in life it takes all types

I'd be willing to bet the "expert" wouldn't have the sense to duck if the real deal were aimed his way, but all slanders to the gentleman aside, AMS to me is when I stuff so much of my own homebuilt extra stuff the kit looks like it is bulging. I try to keep a level head in such situations. PE is fine if you want it, I've cut and shaped more brass sheet than PE. Resin bits are nice but I prefer to carve up styrene or cast up Bondo autobody filler, if I gotta sand away a parting line let it be on the one I made for .49 worth of material, not on something I had to pay enough money to buy another kit for. I have seen far more excellent builds that relied more on careful assembly, technique and painting and mixed media application other than PE and resin.

Oh yeah, you know you have to remember what expert breaks down into, as in "ex" a has been and "spurt" a drip under extreme pressure.

Jay Modelnut4
Las Vegas, NV

I agree whole heartedly with modlenut. To me, scratchbuilding your own "aftermarket" parts is much more rewarding since it not only saves money but also gives me that much more experience and courage on a new project. Just my two cents.

Kyle