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Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
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Being Priced Out
nheather
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Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 - 10:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think that we sometimes lose sight of how inexpensive this hobby really is. Golfists, boaters, anyone remotely interested in owning and operating a classic car...


I agree and I have said as much in this thread at least twice ... if you buy a model and build it then it is cheap entertainment per hour.

Where it is less clear-cut is when you look at the stashes most of us build up.

I must have at least 20-30 kits in my stash and I reckon that is small compared with most. In the past I have bought at a much faster rate than I build - at the speed I build I may never finish off my stash even if I were to stop buying. Even at $30 per kit my stash has cost me at least $600 and apart form the initial buzz of the purchase (I admit I enjoy buying kits that I fancy) I have got very little real value from them yet.

All I'm saying is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to find $30 kits, instead I am being asked to spend $50-$75. I have reached the point where I consider this too much to spend to just end up in my stash so I have practically stopped buying until I have managed to build a good part of my stash.

Cheers,

Nigel
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
#013
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 06:28 AM UTC
Most of the issues seem to have already surfaced here, but my own tuppence' worth is that I will not pay the "big money" for new kits. Instead, I tend to hunt them down either on sale, on an auction site, or at shows (where stuff is usually cheaper). If it is rare enough and I just need to have it I'll grit my teeth, but the more I look at it the fewer items really fall into that category. I've got a huge stash I'm trying to get through (like my dad's old Buick, where he had to turn off the engine at the gas station to give the pump a chance at catching up!) so if I miss a kit first time round it's no big deal. I find eventually I can get hold of most of my "must haves" at a good price sooner or later...

And if you think kits are bad, don't get me started on my HO trains...
BornToDig
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 08:21 AM UTC
It might be helpful to put our heads together and generate a list of less expensive alternative kits for those of us who can't afford the latest and greatest super kits.

I understand that many armor modelers will balk at the idea, but some of those classic Tamiya and Italeri or even pre-2005 Dragon releases are not so bad (while some are admittedly horrible). They're often not as finely detailed as the newer super kits, but if they have the right over-all shape they may be sufficient to many modelers. Some of the finer details can be scratchbuilt if one so desires.

Here are a few that come to mind

-Italeri 38t
-Italeri Marder
-Tamiya T-34/76
-Italeri M4A1
-Tamiya Pz IIIL (mid 90s moulding)
-Dragon/DML Hetzer (late 90s moulding)

Most of these kits can be had for well under $30. But beware of reboxings, sometimes marked up 100% just because of new decals and a few new bits.

So what else is out there?
Robbd01
#323
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 08:42 AM UTC
AMS that's it... Find a cure for AMS. The modeling industry is exploiting our AMS...

I feel your pain (well my wallet feels it more)

Cheers
cinzano
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 03:08 PM UTC
Dunno what to add to this thread. Can't be sure if the number of modellers is growing (someone has to buy all these cool new kits) or if its the same cadre of greying 'kit hoarders' adding to their mountains of plastic but if the manufacturers are going to keep at it, someone has to buy.

Me, I love getting new kits, but at the rate I complete models, I already have enough hoarded to last well into my retirement years.

I, therefore, don't balk at prices too much.

Cheers,
Fred
chumpo
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 09:23 AM UTC
I'm not bragging but I look on E Bay , every so often there's a good deal provided the postage is not an arm or a leg, for supplies such as paints and hard to get items there's deals with free shipping . I picked up Tristar panzer IV B for 25 bucks not exactly a brand new release but one I've been dying to get . With 10 bucks shipping .
Dannyd
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 07:32 PM UTC
I always look at the online second hand kit traders now, I've had a few bargains more than once, a couple of kits I've bought in the past have had some aftermarket in the box that the sellers have missed so that was a nice surprise.

I bought a set of Dragin Gen 2 figures from one eshop which were second hand for about £5 and found that there was two sets in the box, bonus

Almost all the kits I have bought have been in really good condition with the contents still sealed in the factory bags and only once have i bought a kit that was described as mint and sealed only to find that it had been started.

Always worth a look at what you can get from the kit traders and secondhand sellers.


Dan
amegan
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 10:22 PM UTC
Interesting thread, I have been looking at the prices for Wingnut models (WW1 aircraft) lately and these start at about £80 in UK, OK they are superbly detailed in 1/32 scale and will probably take me at least 6 months to build but £80
I bought an Eduard 1/48 Bristol F2B a year or two back for £22, it is well detailed and includes pe and will probably take me at least 3 months to build, so 2 modest priced kits would cost far less than 1 expensive one and give the same building enjoyment. On the subject of am bits I built an Eduard Camel 1/48 and the kit plus am pe and decals cost more than the premium kits from that manufacturer. Certainly, the East European manufacturers like Eduard, Roden and Special Hobbies are making some decent kits at fair prices, currently building a Special hobbies Tempest II in 1/72, includes pe and resin, vacformed canopy and I think will be 4-6weeks work for £16.50, bargain. As a general rule I don't pay more than £25 for a kit and have recently enjoyed building some of the vintage kits still kicking around, yes, sometimes the weight of filler is greater than the weight of plastic but isn't that part of the fun? and the kits cost only £6
FAUST
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 11:16 PM UTC
What I find interesting is the fact that a lot of people tend to count the time possibly spend on a kit to be a big factor into deciding if a kit is worth the purchase. I never thought about that but maybe that is because I am a slow builder. Even a simple kit takes a long time to get finished.

What I really do a lot is either superdetail kits or make conversions on vehicles. Often scratchbuilt but also from AM manufacturers. Usually I try to source the base kit as cheap as possible since it either gets cut up or half used. So not much need in spending premium money on a brandnew kit. If you wait a few months those same kits can be found all over for severly reduced prices.

Also if time spend on a kit is important to you built a good diorama around it. That will add a substantial amount of time to the project. Plus it is extremely fun to do.
vonHengest
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 09:08 AM UTC
I'm a slow builder as well, even without the mild detailing I sometimes do,and I don't even bother assessing the cost per hour of enjoyment because it is already out of the ballpark. I agree that modern plastic kit technology and increased levels of accuracy and detail do factor into the price. However prices are going up in a lot of things, and wages don't seem to be reflecting that for most of us. It's probably more a factor of inflation rather than us being taken advantage of. Most things are going this direction, not just hobbies.
Rocco_1955
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Posted: Monday, September 30, 2013 - 02:25 PM UTC
Nigel, I wonder if you have tried the local train shows. The ones here in the states usually have more than a vendor or two who have a few armor kits to sell. A hobby shop may drag some kits to a show to see if they can unload them. I've seen this same thing occur at auto flea markets or jumbles if you will.
MadModeler
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Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 04:13 AM UTC
As a retailer, we can point the finger at the wholesaler. I try my best to keep some prices low. Heck, my AK Interactive line, I'm basically making no profits with them. And I'm always sold out. Go figure.

Also we can point the finger at our gas prices. More it costs for a barrel, the more we"ll be digging deeper in our pockets.


Cheers,
Tom
bronzey
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Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 07:27 AM UTC
Hello guys

Ok I want to put a spin on this, yes it can be expensive to do what we do but for me, its cheaper than my other options. For personal reasons if I wasn't at my dinning table with a kit I would be across the road at my local pub and a night down there, costs me the same if not more than a kit, a kit that keeps me busy for a few weeks normally. Now I don't earn a huge amount of money, plus im a proud father of 4 young boys but with my wifes help, I can still afford 95% of what kits I want (1/35 Chinook is becoming a regular block between me and my better half) she is pretty clued up on eBay so I give her a list every now and then of what im after and she sorts it. In my younger years I was big on the model railway and that I can say was expensive, looking at £60+ just for a nice engine. Also, even tho it is more expensive, I feel that most of the time the quality of the new kits is worth the extra price, I guess thats more of a personal opinion really, just my thoughts....

Bronzey
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 08:40 AM UTC
Interesting coincidence.I was getting my hair cut today and my stylist was talking about her husband going to a couple bass fishing tourneys. His bass boat, which he bought used, was about $30,000. That's thirty thousand USD, 18,500 GPB, 22,000 Euro!
meowmonster
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Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 09:43 AM UTC
The argument it's cheaper than other hobbies only works if you can afford what you want here. I'm a builder without a huge stash (I have no other armor models than the one I'm working on) and I'm still trying to find the money for the photoetch kit for this one. I remember models being cheap enough to mess up when I was younger. But now, there are no shows around here, there is no LHS, there's what you can order off the internet or chance upon in Hobby Lobby. And that gets expensive fast.

I am disabled and not drawing a check like lots of you guys, so most don't feel the pinch like me but at the same time it's still a lot when you love doing it and you can afford less and less.
MadModeler
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 02:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I am disabled and not drawing a check like lots of you guys, so most don't feel the pinch like me but at the same time it's still a lot when you love doing it and you can afford less and less.


I have a few customers that are in the same house. For them, I don't charge taxes, and I accept minor payments from them. I will hold on the model for them, until it's paid off. See, I'm here to keep the hobby alive. Not looking to over take the Hobby market.

Cheers,
Tom
chumpo
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 03:38 AM UTC
Company's that make models don't do it for love or the desire to put kits out there for modelers to enjoy building . They do it for money and the more they can make the better , so they will push the price up as much as they can to maximize the profits . The same hold true with the retailers , if they don't make a profit they close down . Go on ahead and try to start a garage model making business the see how much it will cost to make a kit . It's the supply versus the demand . Maybe if something like Star Trek , the synthesizer if it ever become a reality will put the models to every ones price range but then again that's wishful thinking that will not happen in my lifetime .
Robbd01
#323
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 04:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Maybe if something like Star Trek , the synthesizer if it ever become a reality will put the models to every ones price range but then again that's wishful thinking that will not happen in my lifetime .


Get ready... 3-D printers are a coming. Though detail is still kinda crude but they are getting there and the prices of the printers are dropping. Already seen parts being made for modelers and the hobby (hint hint) - Don't think it is not happening, take a look at the decal industry

Cheers
wychdoctor92394
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 04:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Model kits are getting too expensive for me.

For the sort of subjects I want I generally have to pay £35-£45 now and to be honest my modelling skills simply don't justify that sort of money.

£40 is not a lot of money if you are going to end up with a show winning masterpiece but not for a mediocre job.

Okay, if I wanted to build a model then I could justify £40 as a reasonable price for x hours of entertainment.

Trouble is, like many, I collect a stash and build very slowly. So with the prices now I'm finding it very hard to justify buying more rather than running down my stash.

When to a military show this weekend (TankFest) with £100 to spend on bargains at the model shop stalls.

Last year I came back with three models. This year I came back with £100.

Looking around the show it wasn't just me either. Normally there would be a lot of interest around the stalls and you seem any visitors carrying around kits that they had bought - a lot less so this year.

Cheers,

Nigel


Take a tip from an old modeler/conventioneer... never go on the first day of the event, and never spend your money until 60-90 minutes before the event shuts down... booth sales are 30-50% cheaper, as they don't want to tote those kits back, or to another venue. I got a lot of deals that way from anything like: Star Trek, Doctor Who, and many musical concerts where T-shirts that normally sell for 40-50 dollars; got 'em at 12-17 dollars.
chumpo
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 04:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Maybe if something like Star Trek , the synthesizer if it ever become a reality will put the models to every ones price range but then again that's wishful thinking that will not happen in my lifetime .


Get ready... 3-D printers are a coming. Though detail is still kinda crude but they are getting there and the prices of the printers are dropping. Already seen parts being made for modelers and the hobby (hint hint) - Don't think it is not happening, take a look at the decal industry



What's the medium use to make the models and are they like the resin ? In two parts ? Because if the demand goes up what will happen to the price ? then there's the programs to drive these printers unless you can write your own .
Grauwolf
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2013 - 06:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Company's that make models don't do it for love or the desire to put kits out there for modelers to enjoy building . They do it for money and the more they can make the better , so they will push the price up as much as they can to maximize the profits


Really???

Do you have any idea what it costs to design a kit, cut the molds and
finally produce it in kit form, as per the high quality we modelers
have imposed on the manufacturers?

We expect every rivet, engraved panel lines, bolt and nut etc. to be perfectly represented
and present and when it is give to us, we complain the price is high.

Oh,and some also included basic PE.

And who is to pay for all this?.....Yes, we end up paying the
price.

We have never been so spoiled with the selection and quality of the kits available
so let's be grateful.

Cheers,
Joe
guyonearth
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 09:45 AM UTC
I think we all feel the way you do to some extent. I've seen guys down at the local model shop trying to buy models on credit, (not credit cards, just let-me-have-it-and-I'll-pay-you-later), pretty sad. I can only suggest the following: Build down that stash. Models in boxes aren't much use. I don't keep a stash myself, I only work on one or two things at a time. Check out second hand or thrift stores. I just picked up 4 models for only $20, that would have retailed for nearly $300. Shop on eBay. I've found great deals there. Work towards quality, not quantity. When I was younger I use to build at a frantic pace, and the models weren't always that good. Now I take my time and try to make them look good, something I'd be proud to have people look at. Don't say you don't have skills, try working on those skills to make them better. I would rather build one model really well, than a dozen mediocre ones...and I'm not claiming super modelling skills, either.
Tojo72
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 10:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Company's that make models don't do it for love or the desire to put kits out there for modelers to enjoy building . They do it for money and the more they can make the better , so they will push the price up as much as they can to maximize the profits


Really???

Do you have any idea what it costs to design a kit, cut the molds and
finally produce it in kit form, as per the high quality we modelers
have imposed on the manufacturers?

We expect every rivet, engraved panel lines, bolt and nut etc. to be perfectly represented
and present and when it is give to us, we complain the price is high.

Oh,and some also included basic PE.

And who is to pay for all this?.....Yes, we end up paying the
price.

We have never been so spoiled with the selection and quality of the kits available
so let's be grateful.

Cheers,
Joe


Happy-yes Satisfied-yes But grateful,no I don't think so.As long as the price is right,I will continue to buy new kits,but once they price me out of my range,it's all over for me and my hobby,and they can hope that there is still someone else to buy.I'm sure there will be.

But THEY need to be grateful they still have customers who can still afford to buy new kits.

And spoiled,is it spoiled to expect quality,if the quality ever goes down,that's when I will stop buying.I don't mind paying for quality,but i expect it,when it declines,so will my purchasing of that particular manufacturer.
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