Ok, first of all, this isn't about anyone in the site ( I hope not). This has been stuck in my head, and I figured that I may tell everyone I can. Okay, this year at the Indiana State Fair, I saw some of the worst possible models and dioramas. I mean it, they were wrong in SO many ways. Here they are in the top three worst ones there: 3. A Tiger with gloss Panzer Yellow and Gloss Green Camo design. 2. An Operation Overlord dio with a Pacific/Mediterranean B-25J (1:48) bombing German troops and tanks (1:35). The troops were hiding behind the Tamiya Brick and Sandbag sets. Not only were they NOT glued, they were NOT painted ( the bricks and sandbags)! 1. Another B-25J, hand-painted (it was really thick. You could not see a single detail on the outside.) gloss brown! Oh, and that's not it. None of the inside was painted, only the gun barrels were painted (The rest of the gun was grey), the "glass" was cloudy, and (get this!) at the end of the runway was the "Spirit of St. Louis"! All right, I realize I may be too mean about this, due to the fact that 4-H starts at 3rd grade, but can't their parents help them or something? Oh well, I'm probably wrong... ("Judge not lest ye be judged...") Thanks for your time.

P.S. If anyone has seen things like this, please share...

Hey, everyone started somewhere.

The models at fairs are usually done by young kids or handicapped folks. We have a local club that meets at a VA domicillary and some of the models are like those you describe. But when you look at them, you need to remember that the folks who built them had the best intentions, but probably didn't have the motor skills, reference or eye for detail that most of us on Armorama have.

I have still have a few models around that I built when I was about 10. Looking at them now, they are laughable, but way back when, I thought they were pretty cool.

MEBM

Everyone has to start somewhere. Our hobby is much more involved, i.e. historic research, detail work etc, than those not involved would know. If I understand it correctly the reason behind this site and others like it, is to bring along those new to the hobby, share skills, ideas, and the enjoyment of a great hobby. I don't mean to play down your rant, but allow me my own little rant. Did you speak to any of these kids? Did you offer them any ideas to improve there work. Please don't misunderstand me I am not saying this to start a problem or anything like that. I have seen this from both sides. Many years ago when I was young I was brush painting cars, had glue on windshields etc. It was the guys in a local club that changed all that. I'm sorry if I have got much to serious I'm not normally like that. I guess it was just a rant, now back to the plastic

Wolfsix

Wolfsix and Hollowpoint: By no means do I want to say that these kids didn't try their hardest. Hey, my first model, which I did two years ago, looked horrible, and still does. Also, I did help the two kids in my group who beat me to the State Fair. I told them how they could give me a run for my money next year. I'm just saying that some of these counties must have no compitition when it comes to Models. (Sad, I know ). Above all, I just don't want to give the impression that I'm cynical and hate these kids. I'm just hoping that these kids get better and better after each model. I know I am.

P.S. I honestly hope no one holds me to this. I know I sounded like it, but I'm not always cynical like this. Please forgive me if I have given anyone the wrong impression. Thanks for your time.

No Prob Man
You can give each kid a prize to recognize their efforts:
Get them a silver level membership to Armorama.com

Problem solved, they get leadership and skillbuilding.
You dont have to endure sucky models and get misconstrued as heartless.

You know where to point 'em, just ask someone to pull this thread off the forums, before they get here....

Regards
firemann816

That model show was successful.

Children built models and proudly displayed them. They probably looked better than mine did way back in the 70s. Never even saw a Tamiya kit until the 1980s.

I assist my 6 and 10 year olds in building models. My 6 year old son likes to paint his kits when he is done. He adds racing stripes by hand, paints the windows over, etc. And when it's time for me to go to my monthly IPMS meeting, he insists we take his kit to show and tell. I show his kits proudly and give him nothing but encouragement. He wants to build, he wants to paint and I figure if I don't discourage him with too many critques, he will be building great kits when he gets older.

My 10 year old daughter likes to build as well. She doesn't always like to paint, but she builds the older Tamiya armor kits OOB and has fun doing it. She gets the old Panzer II, Stuart, M151A2 and does a real good job. She displays her unpainted kits at the meetings as well. She says why paint a green tank green?

You must not have kids. Try telling a young child that they have to use the proper shade of paint on their tank kit that they want to paint red. In the end, all that matters is that they have fun modeling.

FWIW -
I have a four year old daughter.
Yep
I know what your saying
She wants Darth Vader's TIE to be purple, her Elmers purple paint with sparkles so it looks like stars.
Keeps her off my Hasegawa's and lets us share modeling, and cracks me up!
No telling what she'll have for interests at 14, 24 and 34.
BUT
its something we can share together, and makes me wonder why I get so obsessed over them.
Well put, Sabot!
firemann816

Amen Rob I got two little girls myself I know just what you're talking about. But watching my youngest paint a panzer pink was a little hard. The important part is like what was said earlier, the kids were building and enjoying.


HarryD

Hey MEBM,

Let me chime in here for you and all of us, why are "WE" not getting involved in with these kids?

OK, so we see some very creative reditions of models at shows such as these 4H Fair events. But why do we not contact that local 4H and offer some assistance? While I agree that a Tie fighter can be purple (it must have flames and pin-stipe on it though) I see no proplem with a loung rug-rat placing some gloss paint on a Sherman or a Tiger. Hey, I've seen house paint on a Tiger!

Ok, I am biased in the fact that I am an AMPS member. That and I am a outspoken biker, I see that these kids need some sort of guidance. Not to mention that it offer a great opertunity to corupt some young minds to our hobby!

Anyway, just had to chime in here on this as it is one of my pet pives. Both in your sence MEBM and in my fustration of offering help.

Dave
AMPS LA

I have to agree with what Sabot said. Well put.
Secondly if parents get "too involved" were would you you draw the line at where the child built the model vs. the parent building it?
I have been trying to get my son to start building for a while now and he has tried it on and off the past couple of years, but the impatience bug would hit and he would get frustrated and give it up.
Then something happened that hit me one day. His best friend started to build a Warhammer Army. So being a kid and wanting to do something he showed an interest in it. We went to the hobbyshop and got the required things needed to build his army.
Now being totally oblivious to what Warhammer was he opens the box and I see lot and I mean lots of Sprues of heads, bodies, arms, weapons, and yes even a tank. Surprised at what I see I ask you gotta build things. He then informs me "yeah dad they are all little models". Then it hits me. My son has just taken up my hobby, but in a different form.
Now he and his friend are up in his room building hours on end.
I will get an occasional on how to weather. I'll take them here and show them an article on the site. They'll look at me and say that's great for a Tank or Aircraft. My answer to them is "dirt is dirt" the technique is the same. Then it hits them and off they go. Now I am giving Airbrush lessons, Seam hiding advice, weathering and so on, but advice only not wanting to cross the forementioned parent/child line.
The point I guess I am trying to make is it doesn't really matter what they build, how it looks, or if it is as accurate as history depicts. The fact is they are building and one interest may lead to another.
I gave my sons friend an old Revell A-10 when he said he needed a break from building the Army. Maybe it will spark something in him and move to my son and then our hobby will have grown by two. Plus he may even let me post his A-10 here for all to see!!
Sorry so wordy but had to get that off my chest.
Paul

This is my 3rd attempt at answering the original post. My feelings, though abated somewhat, are still the same. I find it arrogant, supercilious and above all, depressing. To denigrate the work of these kids is the reaction of very intolerant person. Let me pose the following questions: What do you you prefer? Kids doing something creative with their time or drinking and taking drugs? Who are you to judge? Does this offend your sensibilities so much that you had to share your sense of outrage with the rest of us? This site has for many of us, become a haven of tolerance, yes we criticize (constructively, or as constructively as our natures allow). People also tend to steer clear of personal attacks for obvious, adult reasons. All of us have posted things we wish we hadn't and this happens from time to time, again just human nature... It would be nice to remember, that all of us continue learning, all of us need advice from time to time and none of us are so perfect that we can't improve as modellers.. What do you want in modelling? do you want a superior elite which all produces the most amazing miniatures or do you want new blood into the hobby? Your post seems to suggest, at least to me, that the first category, is your chosen avenue... In which case, please spare us future instalments of your modelling "philosophy".
Firemann's, Sabot's and Wolfsix's comments seem to hit the nail on the head. The skills that a kid will develop modelling can be nothing but positive. Anything which involves kids doing something positive with their time should be encouraged, not ridiculed... Personally a kid doing something creative is infinitely better than a passive lump sitting in front of the boob-tube or taking drugs. Sorry, to the rest of you for my "rant", but as is often said, if you play with fire, you will get burnt, or at least in this case, flamed, Jim

Well MEBM - I think you've been suitably drummed for the commentary, so I won't dole anymore upon you.

I think if you have the opportunity in the future, get to know your fellow competitors - they might be future friends and supporters of your own hobby efforts. We all look at hobby work with a jaundiced eye - swayed towards our own experience level, acheivement, and sense of skill level. What you witnessed was that little bird whispering an opportunity to share some of the things you learned so far building models.

Imagine what would happen if everyone ignored that little bird...

i think that there are valid point's on both sides of this discussion while many of us may cringe inside at a panzer painted in gloss camo,we have to remember to cringe INSIDE. and if the parent's are not able to help we can always offer a few words of encouragement and or guidance.remember it was'nt that long ago when we were in their shoes.and you're always improving some of us(me)are still trying to improve. all the best.

Okay, I'm going to try to right my wrong. This is to everyone who has read this and/or replied (Especially Jimbrae): Like I said in the second post, I know these kids tried their hardest. I also know that I am in NO position to downplay on these kids' models. MY models are still in their "experimental" phase. I didn't mean to make their models sound like they're the worst possible ones in the world. In fact, I was only focusing on their negative points. Their positive points completely outweigh their negative. And being 15, I know exactly the pressures there are with drugs and alcohol, and I wish more kids would be in this hobby. Maybe this way, my class wouldn't be considered as my school's (literally) "worst class in the school's history".
I DO try to help older kids, younger kids, and kids my age when it comes to things, ESPECIALLY modeling.
All right, I know I can't take back what I said, so I'm going to say this: I'm sorry that I said those things. ALL OF THEM. I was in a very bad mood yesterday when I typed all of it down, and I know that that's no excuse, I'm just hoping that you'll understand about all of this. I hadn't realized what I had done until today, so I got on here after church so I could delete all of this before anybody else could read it and spoil their day. What I said was inconsiderate of those I talked about and anyone who read this. I've done this kind of thing too much. I say (or type, in this case) things before thinking, especially when I'm angry about a stupid little thing. Above all, I'm sorry for this post, I'm sorry to everyone who had to read it, and I'm especially sorry for my attitude towards the kids and their models. I did not know them, and I shouldn't have judged them. After all, I wasn't a judge there, so I should not have judged them. I am sorry. I hope that I don't do this again.

The apology wasn't totally necessary, all of say things in the heat of the moment which we later regret, what you have demonstrated is real guts to post the apology, its not about forgiveness, its just what we all do..leap before looking, I am a past master of this....lol. Jim

I've been following this thread without saying anything...I wanted to see how it turned out. I was a little suspicious at first that it was a 'wind-up', since I couldn't believe somebody could come across at being so arrogant.
Since it seems to have nearly reached a conclusion I'd like to throw my two cents in......MEBM seems to made a gross error, but at age 15 it takes reals guts to apologise in the manner he did. He's learned something. I know I would have found it very difficult if not impossible to eat humble pie like that when I was 15 (or even 19), so hats off.
Don't know about you guys but one of the reasons I frequent this site is because I learn so much. Perhaps not just about modeling.

Vinnie

MEBM -
Took a lot of guts to post after the tarring and feathering, well done!


IMHO we should be thanking you, b/c this has me thinking.
(I didnt know you were 15 so this may be a little tough for you, but your participation is encouraged and welcome)

If we among Armorama are concerned about the future of our hobby, and ensuring that the younger generation give modeling a try and are supported for their efforts along their journey:
We could voluntarily doante $25 into a pool that Armorama could offer to Squadron or Discount Models, for a palette full of "clearance rack" kits that could be donated to "Toys for Tots" at Christmas.

MEBM made me think, and i think I'll find an AMT/ERTL for a donation to our church's request for toys. I love Tamiya's and Hasegawa's but I doubt theyre right for introductory kits.
Although some kids would probably prefer them.

Its a thought, and lets us put our money where our mouth is...

thats fun of modeling u use your own mind and thing of these things,
i think of use made tanks wrong colors and stuff like that when we started out

Was Uday there? #:-)

Guntruck!
do you have to be so intolrant. does it ever occure to you that everyone has to start somewhere?
These kids that you are yelling at are probably wery proud of there work, so what right do you have to crush their pride, confidenseand selfesteme???? #:-)

A most interesting thread. As I have been a Boy scout leader for umpteen years my first inclination was to chastise for the fact that no effort was made on how to teach them to do it right. At the shows here in Dallas, they always have an area set aside called "Make and Take". Some dealer donates a ton of cheap kits and you see the young kits diligently putting them together. The other part is the adult participation to teach how to do it . I bought a kit for my nephew. Then demonstrated some techniques then let him loose. He's only 9.

Ahem, Triumph, I suggest you read the posts a little more carefully before jumping in... Guntruck did not start this this thread. There is a wonderful little facility available on your screen, it will allow you to edit or delete a post, I think the second option may be what you should be looking for....Jim

This thread has sure been active!
I'm telling ya' I think we ought to try to simulate a virtual "Make and Take" as a Toys for Tots from Armorama.com

If enough folks show interest in donating/participating I''ll volunteer the time to work the logisitcs with the Armorama staff

Cut them some slack, they probably were kids, and proud ouf their models. Shwp Paine probably was one of those snotty kids at one time.

~Chip :-)