I agree with KiwiDave 100% here. HOWEVER, I also agree with Ian.

As for me personally, I feel scale model manufactures give us a very fair replica of any armor vehicle, figure, artillery gun, etc.etc. In my opinion, the word "modeler / scale modeling " in fact describes that we build and create using our own "God given ' skill's & talents. Therefore, in addition with all the aftermarket accessories available to us, it lies within the modelers own hands to make any model right out of the box .... ( no matter how good or bad ) ... better & more accurate than it already is.

- ralph

I have no problem with critical kit reviews that are pointing out short comings in a kit. Just something else to be fixed or replaced. I'm not a rivet counter and if it looks like a tank, I'm pretty much happy.

Most Eastern European kits are pretty rough, but we know that when we buy the kit. That said, I only found one minor fleck of flash on the Allen Pz11 J kit. But, the gun cradle for the Allen Marder 11 D is giving me fits. The individual link tracks are pretty good tho! That's the wonderful world of modelling.

Italeri? I remember when they were better than the Tamiya offerings. Italeri's M13/40 and M-40-75/18 is still better than Tamiya's ( is that a bash?).

I do like to have as much info as possiable about a kit before I buy it. Some of the kit manufactures put out kits that are totaly wrong and I do not want to spend $100.00 buying aftermarket resin to fix them.

End of ramblw.

I aggree with Ian I seen a post on another site were quite a few people were shooting off
about academy's grant well no one has seen it no pre-release photos have been seen in the mags matter of fact no one has seen anything of it! they were making asumptions based on the honey kit how very sad! but if some one says that it has warped parts and ill fitting parts I think these days a kit should be able to be built oob without having to corrected
it but just because it's a mil short/long then who cares

I personally don't want to bash a kit even if I found it poor quality as I am such a new builder that it probably is just me and a more experience builder would think it was ok.

Hasty

Well, I used to trawl RMS for suggestions on kits that I planned to buy at Ebay (I buy at Ebay for the simple reason that we don't get anything here in India except some old Academy kits). What I found that whatever the kit of a plane available, people would just go on and gripe and gripe and gripe about some minor inaccuracies in the kit, and start preaching sermons about comparisions between 4-5 manufacturers.

Ultimately this would end up in manufacturer bashing of one sort or the other. So I simply stopped going thru these 'holier-than-thou' preachings, and started looking at other sites instead. I found SMARK a pretty good site, and decent reviews which would not go negatively overboard.

Finally, it all boiled down to me, and my perception of modelling. I dont' mind if the kit is a few mm off somewhere, people who come to see it wont go crawling all over it with a measuring tape. As long as it looks comfortably like the original, fine!

Cheers,
BP.

Hi all

I have to admit I'm a bit mistified by this thread, because I've never found anyone doing a hatchet job on a kit they haven't seen... that just sounds plain stupid if it happens! Of course, how do we know they haven't seen the kit? Surely, they won't admit that... will they? Can anyone point me towards some examples... they should be good for a laugh!!

But if someone really has found problems with a particular model, I'd like to know. I value other modellers' opinions on kits. I might not always agree with them, but the whole point is that it's giving me the chance to make a more informed choice about what I buy. If a kit is grossly innacurate, or just a real bugger to build - I appreciate the warning. (Stugiiif and I will have to agree to differ on Trumpeter's SM79, because I really hope Tamiya and Hasegawa don't use it as a bench-mark...)

I guess a sense of perspective is important. Something that might have a true "rivet counter" in spasms might not even be noticeable to someone else. Whether we build "out of the box" or end up virtually scratchbuilding half the kit, surely the most important thing is that we enjoy every kit we build...

Happy modelling :-)

Rowan

porky,
as much as it's sad it's true I seen the post on missing-lynx as some quarters were
disapointed with the honey kit saying it was very similar in ways to the tamyia kit
they were assuming that the grant kit would have have the same errors as the
tamiya grant kit if you serch for the post you'll find it and just wait till the kit comes out
if some thing is wron they will be the one's saying told you so. I'd say to these clowns
put your money were your mouth is if you can do better please do so until then shut up
there can be all sorts of resons kits are longer/shorter weak molded parts for one thing

I'm glad this is now my home site.
A recent thread over at ML about the new "boring Germans" (the arty troops) DML is releasing is absurd. Everybody wants DML to make that one figure that fits their project perfectly.
"Dear DML, please make me a German who is 6 foot two and is trotting (Yes trotting, I don't want a run and I don't want a walk) down Rue Du Mort on June 17, 1944 with an MP-44, in one hand and wine bottle in the other. Oh, and make sure he's wearing a poncho over a pea-pattern smock with a grenade sticking out of his belt and boot. He should also have on a forage hat, not a helmet. You can do that for me, right? If not I'll complain on the internet that you didn't do what I asked."

Give me a break, I suspect these ginds of gripers will limit the amount of new kits we get in the future.
Thankfully Ron Volstad stood up for his work, which he rightfully should.

I'm just glad the gripers aren't here......

RANT WARNING!!!




Hmmmm. Nate, I think what lots of people are saying is they are tired of "another set of Germans" from DML. Do the math. People like me, who build mainly WWII U.S. and other Allies, get sick seeing another set of Germans coming out (and more than half the time, it's another set of SS in camouflage smocks).

I believe DML has made about 9 sets of U.S. WWII figures. Three are Airborne (Normandy, Operation Varstiy and Battle of the Bulge), one is a set of 2nd AD engineers in a test camo uniform , one Rangers at Point du Hoc, one tank crew (good set), U.S. anti-tank teams, Marines at Iwo Jima, and the U.S. weapons set (no figures, just guns). I can convert the Korean War Pusan perimeter set to be GIs in the South Pacific (the Chosin Reservior Marines are strictly what they are boxed to be). They've made probably 4-5 Soviet WWII figure sets, a couple Commonwealth, one Japanese, one Cossacks in German service. no Italians that I know of ... I'm sure all of these together are out-numbered at least two to one by Germans (again, mostly SS) and I've thrown non-German Axis in with the Allies. Tamiya's Allied-Axis ratio is worse.

Except for the anti-tank set and the tankers, none of the U.S. sets really depicts GIs I can use just about anywhere in NE Europe. The BoB set is also rather generic (with a few uniform mods), but is limited to winter.

Don't think I'm not grateful for the few U.S. sets they have issued, but when the new releases come out, I am more often disappointed than pleased.

Some will argue that Germans are more popular. Well, how come the shelves aren't lined with the U.S. kits if they are so danged unpopular? I have never seen teh Battle of the Bulge set on a hobby shop shelf. The U.S. tank crew is a collector's item. The others are rare. Shelves everywhere have Germans, Germans, Germans.

I guess I'll never understand retailing. I once went into a sporting goods shop and wanted to check the price of some ammo. The slot where my ammo should have been was empty, but the price tag was on the shelf. I asked the clerk if they had any in the back. He replied, "No. We don't sell much of that caliber." !?!?! "Don't sell much?" I asked. "You've completely sold out! When will you get more?" He looked at me as if I was the stupid one.

It happened again this week. I went into a shop asking for a specific type of item and was told by the clerk, "No, we don't have it. We have a lot of people asking for that sort of thing." So then I ask, "Why don't you sell it, then?" Again, a stupid look. No answer.

So back to the original thought ... Nate, I don't want a set that will fit my project perfectly. I just want a few sets that will fit my projects, period.

One thing to keep in mind Hollowpoint, is that you are no worse off now than you were before Dragon put out this set of dudes. I can certainly understand your frustration for lack of allied subjects, but this release doesn't hurt you any.

I build mostly German stuff, so I guess you could say I've got little to complain about - but if Dragon were to put out a set of Allied troops, I doubt you would see the same uproar that you do when they put out Germans.

I like your analogy about store shelves - manufacturers say that Germans sell, so they make them.... I'd be willing to bet that the reason Germans sell so well, is because that is all there is to buy. It is kinda hard for people to buy lots of allied stuff if there isn't any. Some enterprising company will figure this out eventually - and make a mint. There certainly seems to be a demand for stuff that is not German....

Jeff

Hi Bob, I know this is really "knit picking " but the box just reads 2nd Armored Div. Nothing is said about them being engineers. Actually they look to be a better representation of a platoon form A or B Company / 41st Armored Inf.Reg./ 2nd Ar.Div. ..... Anyway infantry & medics from the 41st AIR wore the camo as well as the 17th Engineer Btn . Definitely can't be the medic's ( no Red Cross helmets ) so it they could be either of the two choices left.

- ralph

I'm in the same corner with you Bob on allied subjects, that makes the fact that some German fans are complaining that this set isn't doing enough absurd.
While Allied guys wait for Brits from N, Africa, Burma or US Gis from Tunisa and other theaters, you can almost get a set of "German Typewriter Operators, 1944 (in camo smocks)."
Luckily in the scales I work in you can find allied stuff, just not from THE major companies. But as Bob said the forces of marketing are beyond my control... so be it. I'm still having fun and thankful for the stuff we do have.

Ralph, Nate -- I LOVE YOU GUYS Ralph, OK, I exageratted. Maybe 100 guys were dressed in the frog camo suit in the ETO (I also conveniently neglected to mention possible PTO applications). Nate, I need a set of those typewriter operators for a dio I have planned (NOT).

Jeff -- You're right, it doesn't hurt me, it just makes me sick. You hit the point I was trying to make in my post: They sells because that's what the mainstream model companies are selling. The M4A1 would jump off the shelves if DML would only re-release it. Same with the U.S. tanker figure set. A new Allied figure set from DML? YES, you would hear a cheer rise up. Instead, we have to save our pennies to buy aftermarket resin kits, then modify the daylights out of them to try to fill out a diorama.

Look at it this way - The sooner we get our SS typewriter dudes in camo smocks, the sooner you get your GI's. EVENTUALLY the figure manufacturers will have made every single German to fight in the second world war. I'll bet they start covering your allied guys then. :-)

Here's the bottom line, they have nothing better to do with their lives and their modeling skills are lacking. If a kit does'nt fall out of a box painted and assembled model builders then attack it.
If you're a real model builder, a hobbiest then the enjoyment comes from taking whatever is given you in the box and making something out if, especially if you have to scratchbuild it.
With all the aftermarket kits out today, it should not matter what comes out of the box since that is generally a start and nothing more.
The naysayers are what is keeping pewople from enjoying the hobby and keeping a lot of people from joining clubs or going to shows. People are tired of hearing critical comments by rivet counters everytime they put a model down on a table, especially when it turns out (99%) of the time that the person making the comments can't build!
That's it, I am stopping before I get riled up some more about the people in this hobby who have forgotten that it's a hobby and are screwing it up for who ever new wants to get in on the hobby!
Have you ever gone to stores (Hobby People in the west comes to mind) that you never see at club meetings or local shows or swap meets. Have you ever gone to local shows or swap meets and wondered why you never see these people at your club meetings?
This is a great hobby, take it from an old man, it is the rivit counters and psudeo know it alls who need to grow up.
That's it, I'm riled up now!

Good god guys, how long can people go on about that review of the Honey kit from Academy? It was like a year ago! It's over!

What I remember is that the reviewer said that the interior was wrong for the type and that there were some other problems that also appeared on the Tamiya kit as well. So what? Academy is still in business and doing OK as far as I can tell.




Are you kidding? Why would somebody give up a hobby because of bad kit reviews or the dreaded 'rivet count'?

But, you are correct about the contest/show part of it. I really didn't want to spend time with a bunch of grumpy old guys arguing like babies about nothing. In fact, it was retarded and I felt stupid to even be in that environment. (I'm only speaking of my experience and I'm sure there are great clubs. If they are near you, I'm envious.)

Back to reviews, I have never seen any respected reviewer bash a kit before it's out. Maybe someone starts a thread that says something will suck because it's Italeri or Trumpeter or whatever. Again, so what? Why get bent out of shape for what someone says?

Look, I like a good, honest review. If somethings not the right shape or the detail blows or the decals are inaccurate, I WANT to know. Chances are I really don't care if it's a subject that I want to build and the complaints are minor, I could care less about a few millimeters. But, if I spend $35 or so on a hunk of plastic, I want as much info as I can get before I make the purchase.

Some people get so mad when a reviewer points out negative things about kits they happen to like. Isn't that the whole point of a review in the first place? You know, to review?

Let's use some common sense. I'm sure we can all tell when a reviewer is being honest and sincere or when they are blowing smoke up our butt.

Besides, isn't complaining fun sometimes?

I usually have already made up my mind on what I want to build. I don't mind reading or hearing some feedback on the kit up front. This is sometimes very helpful for looking ahead and making changes. I did read some reviews on the Academy Hornet, but It did not sway me from buying it. I did however, buy a Cam seat foe it and am glad I did now. The kit seat was everything I read about it. But as the story goes, I build what I want and try like hell to enjoy the kit. None are perfect and I don't expect any to be. Just hope I can I get what I pay for.

Something came to mind after I was here earlier. I build what I want to build. Not a kit some vendor has sent me to try and give them feedback on. If I had to build whatever I was sent , I could not be very objective about it. First, I may not be interested in it and second, I would probably just throw it together to get it out of my way. Therefore, how much of these reviews can we really take to heart? None , in my opinion. I prefer to build what I want and form my own opinions based upon my experiences with said kit. Hey, no one twist my arm to make me build anything. Thank you and good Night.

well their was people that b1tched @ the rso from italeri

now that tamiya has it its all fabulous?

thats like WTF

I liked the italeri and the tamiya is the same just with figures and oil drums
but people dont buy the italeri.

and since people that write reviews are supposed 2 be good modellers they can scratchbuild what they are missing!
but thats just my humble opinion