Matt
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Appalling 9/11 Sale Ad at Greatmodels
mvfrog
Member Since: August 25, 2008
entire network: 369 Posts
KitMaker Network: 174 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 01:02 PM UTC
You cannot convince me that no one caught this before they hung the ad on the net. If you think so, please take a look at the towers in the background of the ad. No apology can mollify this. My country. My fellow citizens killed. My business? No.
Matt
Matt
redleg12
Member Since: March 11, 2007
entire network: 872 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 01:19 PM UTC
Here is the posted apology
http://www.greatmodels.com/main/090914.htm
I was more impressed with the email...IMHO. The email just took responsibility. This goes way into playing it down with other bad ads they have done.
I'm not impressed
Rounds Complete!!
http://www.greatmodels.com/main/090914.htm
I was more impressed with the email...IMHO. The email just took responsibility. This goes way into playing it down with other bad ads they have done.
I'm not impressed
Rounds Complete!!
SSGToms
Member Since: April 02, 2005
entire network: 3,608 Posts
KitMaker Network: 512 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 02:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You cannot convince me that no one caught this before they hung the ad on the net. If you think so, please take a look at the towers in the background of the ad. No apology can mollify this. My country. My fellow citizens killed. My business? No.
Matt
I completely agree with Matt; there are too many elements for this to be a mistake and no spin job apology will change my opinion of them. I emailed them to close my account and got the same cut - and - paste response as everyone else. I guess everyone has to make their own choice, but I personally have no reason to do business with a morally bankrupt retailer.
redleg12
Member Since: March 11, 2007
entire network: 872 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 02:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextYou cannot convince me that no one caught this before they hung the ad on the net. If you think so, please take a look at the towers in the background of the ad. No apology can mollify this. My country. My fellow citizens killed. My business? No.
Matt
I completely agree with Matt; there are too many elements for this to be a mistake and no spin job apology will change my opinion of them. I emailed them to close my account and got the same cut - and - paste response as everyone else. I guess everyone has to make their own choice, but I personally have no reason to do business with a morally bankrupt retailer.
Matt - Don't get me wrong....when I first saw the email today I accepted the apology. But as I said there is a wound......let me explain wound....it will be a cold day in hell when I would buy from him.
You should have read my email I sent yesterday.
Now with his worthless watered down site apology....well I wish well for his employees but the man JUST DOES NOT GET IT!!
Rounds Complete!!
sparky
Member Since: December 26, 2004
entire network: 128 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 05:59 PM UTC
I agree with the last couple of posts.
IMHO the sale was an attempt at some sort of humour that backfired on them.
I really can't believe that there was some sort of miscommunication that misinterpreted 9/11 crushing prices with what ended up happening.
They will never see another dollar of my money.
IMHO the sale was an attempt at some sort of humour that backfired on them.
I really can't believe that there was some sort of miscommunication that misinterpreted 9/11 crushing prices with what ended up happening.
They will never see another dollar of my money.
Spades
Member Since: February 08, 2003
entire network: 776 Posts
KitMaker Network: 190 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 07:08 PM UTC
Their apology started off pretty good. But what the hell did they need to talk about other indiscretions...........I DONT CARE. I only care about the current ad they had running.....kinda of a let down. 
old-dragon
Member Since: August 30, 2005
entire network: 3,289 Posts
KitMaker Network: 592 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 11:23 PM UTC
The "supposed vet" on his back thing....WTF...more of what origonally caused it all to begin with...no thought put into things before they do it. I'm removing the site from my faves and moving on.......I'm tired of what I keep seeing.
jaypee
Member Since: February 07, 2008
entire network: 1,699 Posts
KitMaker Network: 114 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 11:44 PM UTC
what is this guy on? When in a hole stop digging. Why all the photos of his family and Grandad fought the Nazis?
There is 4 lines of apology and dozens of lines of stupid stuff all about him. What an great guy, don't you wish you
were as great as him?
Doesn't say a single thing about what is being done about it. I think sociopath nails it exactly.
He's made his apology you either accept it or not.
There is 4 lines of apology and dozens of lines of stupid stuff all about him. What an great guy, don't you wish you
were as great as him?
Doesn't say a single thing about what is being done about it. I think sociopath nails it exactly.
He's made his apology you either accept it or not.
tankfixer
Member Since: October 15, 2005
entire network: 283 Posts
KitMaker Network: 167 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 03:59 AM UTC
I'm glad I'm not the only one upset over the add. I felt like I was bodyslammed when I opened the email. I've NEVER had good service from them and now they will NEVER get my Business again. Apology is not accepted because Somebody in that office should have said something when the idea surfaced. I don't believe this was a hasty add thrown together neither.
CReading
#001
Member Since: February 09, 2002
entire network: 1,726 Posts
KitMaker Network: 558 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 07:51 AM UTC
The ad was certainly in poor taste and an affront to anyone who witnessed/lived through the 9/11 event. Bad judgment and shear stupidity on the part of GM.
That said, the owner apologized profusely, of course that will not be enough for some people.
I do not believe that the motives for this ad were political. GM isn't a front for a terrorist organization, just a family run business that made a huge lapse in judgment.
To some people it will never be enough, no matter what the folks at GM do.
Bottom line:
either forgive and get on with life or
make your decision to purchase your models elsewhere
but lets quit with the 'mob' mentality, trying to stoke the fire, 'boycott' the store and attempt to recruit as many people as possible to your particular point of view.
You can't extract blood from a stone, the guy's already apologized.
Charles
That said, the owner apologized profusely, of course that will not be enough for some people.
I do not believe that the motives for this ad were political. GM isn't a front for a terrorist organization, just a family run business that made a huge lapse in judgment.
To some people it will never be enough, no matter what the folks at GM do.
Bottom line:
either forgive and get on with life or
make your decision to purchase your models elsewhere
but lets quit with the 'mob' mentality, trying to stoke the fire, 'boycott' the store and attempt to recruit as many people as possible to your particular point of view.
You can't extract blood from a stone, the guy's already apologized.
Charles
mauserman
Member Since: September 27, 2004
entire network: 1,183 Posts
KitMaker Network: 496 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 09:33 AM UTC
I think his apology sounded genuine. One of his employees screwed up and as the owner, he took responsibility for it. That's how it should be. As for his ramblings about the rest of the stuff, it didn't belong in the apology. Maybe he thought this was a good opportunity to explain some of the company's other perceived mistakes. I don't know, but it still doesn't belong here.
And one other thing. They really shouldn't have included pics and links to new kits that are expected soon on the apology page. That's almost as offensive as the original ad itself. I will think twice before I spend money there in the future.
And one other thing. They really shouldn't have included pics and links to new kits that are expected soon on the apology page. That's almost as offensive as the original ad itself. I will think twice before I spend money there in the future.
Spades
Member Since: February 08, 2003
entire network: 776 Posts
KitMaker Network: 190 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:18 AM UTC
I agree with Charles on his post, the man apologized, did I think it was correct in the form it was presented to us ? Not completely. But I accept it for what it is. The man does have his son in the military and supports him fully.
I will continue to buy from them, they screwed up, they got spanked, lets move on.
I will continue to buy from them, they screwed up, they got spanked, lets move on.
tominizer
Member Since: September 26, 2006
entire network: 210 Posts
KitMaker Network: 118 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 01:43 AM UTC
Kinda worrying how people jump on the band wagon so fast and are ready to torch down the guy's house to the ground in response to what looks to clearly have been a mistake in judgement. Yeah, they completely messed up. But they are only human and it doesn't look to have been done knowingly with the intent to disrespect the event's of 9/11. Some of you guys have to get a grip and relax. I'd hazzard a guess that if they made peace by offering half price on 1/35 tigers, all you haters would be pulling out your wallets to quietly pony up for one even though you cancelled your accounts. People screw up. If they legitimately make the effort to appologise, the decent thing to do is forgive them and move on. There's enough hate going around already.......................
viper29_ca
Member Since: October 18, 2002
entire network: 2,247 Posts
KitMaker Network: 718 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 03:50 AM UTC
The biggest thing that would have avoided all of this...........
Don't have a 9/11 sale.
Why would you even attempt to base a sale on that? Doesn't matter what pictures, wording or anything....why even do it in the first place??
If it just happened that 9/11 was the day that their normal weekly sales started on, then either move the date up, or down the calender one day, or just call it their "weekly sale....starts Friday Sept 11", instead of 9/11.
I am thinking that any reference to 9/11 and a sale is pretty much commercial suicide, why even broach the subject when it is still a very open wound in the US and around the world??
Apology not withstanding.....if someone in the office, the owner or otherwise suggested anything of the sort, it should have been ki-bashed immediately!
Don't have a 9/11 sale.
Why would you even attempt to base a sale on that? Doesn't matter what pictures, wording or anything....why even do it in the first place??
If it just happened that 9/11 was the day that their normal weekly sales started on, then either move the date up, or down the calender one day, or just call it their "weekly sale....starts Friday Sept 11", instead of 9/11.
I am thinking that any reference to 9/11 and a sale is pretty much commercial suicide, why even broach the subject when it is still a very open wound in the US and around the world??
Apology not withstanding.....if someone in the office, the owner or otherwise suggested anything of the sort, it should have been ki-bashed immediately!
tylusfaust
Member Since: December 18, 2005
entire network: 371 Posts
KitMaker Network: 25 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 05:17 AM UTC
Here's how you have a 9/11 sale, all proceeds from discounts go to help the children of slain servicemen and women in the war on terror.
mvfrog
Member Since: August 25, 2008
entire network: 369 Posts
KitMaker Network: 174 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 05:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Kinda worrying how people jump on the band wagon so fast and are ready to torch down the guy's house to the ground in response to what looks to clearly have been a mistake in judgement. Yeah, they completely messed up. But they are only human and it doesn't look to have been done knowingly with the intent to disrespect the event's of 9/11. Some of you guys have to get a grip and relax. I'd hazzard a guess that if they made peace by offering half price on 1/35 tigers, all you haters would be pulling out your wallets to quietly pony up for one even though you cancelled your accounts. People screw up. If they legitimately make the effort to appologise, the decent thing to do is forgive them and move on. There's enough hate going around already.......................
I am disappointed to be called a "hater." Particularly since I see no references to 'hate' in any of the posts. Everyone has expressed an opinion without making personal snertly remarks about any of the posters, only the event itself...one way or the other. Also, I do not believe any of the posters here would jump all over a 'half price on Tigers ' sale. I believe that this community of modelers is more sincere than that, on both sides of this issue. We have a good community of people, whose opinions I respect, although I may not always agree...good people; well expressed; have always shown respect for my opinions, and, in return, I theirs. This is the first post to use the word hate. That's sad.
Matt
BobCard
Member Since: August 09, 2006
entire network: 1,008 Posts
KitMaker Network: 115 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 06:01 AM UTC
Thanks Matt,
tominizer
You two running for Congress or something? I don’t remember anyone asking for a boycott, trying to recruit anyone, jumping on any band wagon, or some sad attempt to justify themselves by suggesting that they could be bribed or low enough to stoop to GM’s level by getting lower prices or even by trying to suggest they themselves are above it all. Next thing you’ll say its race related.
I agree with the bottom line statement but since GM has the right to speak and apologize, everyone else should have the right to state how they feel and what their response would be.
I do believe these two comments are the ones blowing things out of proportion.
GM made the mistake, admitted it and apologized for it, fine. I’ll still do my business somewhere else where they don’t feel the need to belittle a massmurder of 3000+ to make money.
Bob
Quoted Text
Bottom line:
either forgive and get on with life or
make your decision to purchase your models elsewhere
but lets quit with the 'mob' mentality, trying to stoke the fire, 'boycott' the store and attempt to recruit as many people as possible to your particular point of view.
Charles
Quoted Text
Kinda worrying how people jump on the band wagon so fast and are ready to torch down the guy's house to the ground in response to what looks to clearly have been a mistake in judgement. Yeah, they completely messed up. But they are only human and it doesn't look to have been done knowingly with the intent to disrespect the event's of 9/11. Some of you guys have to get a grip and relax. I'd hazzard a guess that if they made peace by offering half price on 1/35 tigers, all you haters would be pulling out your wallets to quietly pony up for one even though you cancelled your accounts. People screw up. If they legitimately make the effort to appologise, the decent thing to do is forgive them and move on. There's enough hate going around already.......................
tominizer
You two running for Congress or something? I don’t remember anyone asking for a boycott, trying to recruit anyone, jumping on any band wagon, or some sad attempt to justify themselves by suggesting that they could be bribed or low enough to stoop to GM’s level by getting lower prices or even by trying to suggest they themselves are above it all. Next thing you’ll say its race related.
I agree with the bottom line statement but since GM has the right to speak and apologize, everyone else should have the right to state how they feel and what their response would be.
I do believe these two comments are the ones blowing things out of proportion.
GM made the mistake, admitted it and apologized for it, fine. I’ll still do my business somewhere else where they don’t feel the need to belittle a massmurder of 3000+ to make money.
Bob
RKinsella
Member Since: September 29, 2007
entire network: 603 Posts
KitMaker Network: 6 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 06:29 AM UTC
Everyone is allowed an opinion here guys, no need to argue amogst each other, I think everyone would agree it was bad taste
My own opinion is that the companys sales stunt was poorly thought out and backfired, I dont believe some graphic designer took this add upon himself without the owners consent, if he was apparantly really this ignorant I imagine he would of never been hired or perhaps he would of been fired by now.
I read the owners apology earlier today on cybermodeller, I was surprised to see he was blaming a misunderstanding with his graphic designer and then he continued to post some ironies and family ties which I find no connection to with the matter..
I think Mr. Anthian should just quit with the excuses and suck up the error in his judgement.
Perhaps GMW should have a benefit sale for the 911 families (as someone earlier touched on). At least this would go some way to righting a wrong and it might get people digging into their pockets again too! In a worst case scenario it might safe some of his customers
My own opinion is that the companys sales stunt was poorly thought out and backfired, I dont believe some graphic designer took this add upon himself without the owners consent, if he was apparantly really this ignorant I imagine he would of never been hired or perhaps he would of been fired by now.
I read the owners apology earlier today on cybermodeller, I was surprised to see he was blaming a misunderstanding with his graphic designer and then he continued to post some ironies and family ties which I find no connection to with the matter..
I think Mr. Anthian should just quit with the excuses and suck up the error in his judgement.
Perhaps GMW should have a benefit sale for the 911 families (as someone earlier touched on). At least this would go some way to righting a wrong and it might get people digging into their pockets again too! In a worst case scenario it might safe some of his customers
Spades
Member Since: February 08, 2003
entire network: 776 Posts
KitMaker Network: 190 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 08:41 AM UTC
You two running for Congress or something? I don’t remember anyone asking for a boycott, trying to recruit anyone, jumping on any band wagon, or some sad attempt to justify themselves by suggesting that they could be bribed or low enough to stoop to GM’s level by getting lower prices or even by trying to suggest they themselves are above it all. Next thing you’ll say its race related.
I agree with the bottom line statement but since GM has the right to speak and apologize, everyone else should have the right to state how they feel and what their response would be.
I do believe these two comments are the ones blowing things out of proportion.
GM made the mistake, admitted it and apologized for it, fine. I’ll still do my business somewhere else where they don’t feel the need to belittle a massmurder of 3000+ to make money.
Bob
[/quote]
Bob,
I really think that these 2 posts are not blowing anything out of proportion. They, like you, have your opinion, I know Charles personally, he's an honorable man. As for the other gentleman, I dont know him. But im sure he's a good guy. In regards to GW, they apologized, thats it, maybe not the way we would have wanted, but it is what it is. But its done, they should not have to go on for the rest of their lives (GW) apologizing for a mistake, regardless how it was committed. As stated, lets get away from MOB mentalitiy and just go forward.
If people choose to go somewhere else to do business, they have that right. I on the other hand will continue with GW, Im not going to continue to cast stones.
I think we all have more pertinent things to worry about in our everyday lives.
Have a beer.
tominizer
Member Since: September 26, 2006
entire network: 210 Posts
KitMaker Network: 118 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 04:17 PM UTC
Good points above.
And right off the bat, I'll apologize about using the term haterz.......... a bit strong but there were some very strong posts against the owner and his business for what happened. So you're not a bunch of "haterz" but a bunch with a very strong dis-liking for the events that transpired............ how's that.
And I'm not here to stand up and preach off the box............ but some reality needed to be injected. And if you don't like what I had to say, too bad. I don't like how the situation was handled on both sides.............. more-so with what GM did and how they handled it but there was also NO mercy from the other side either. The whole situation was a pathetic blight on us all................
old-dragon
Member Since: August 30, 2005
entire network: 3,289 Posts
KitMaker Network: 592 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 05:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'd hazzard a guess that if they made peace by offering half price on 1/35 tigers, all you haters would be pulling out your wallets to quietly pony up for one even though you cancelled your accounts. ..............
A) I'm a "nottooimpressedwiththewholething"..not a hater
B)...nah, I have all the origonal tigers from DML...some bought from lucky and the others from... GM.
OK, I am a hater I guess...I always "hated" having to scroll thru GM's "weekly/monthly__% off sale" list to see what's good or actually a sale price. To have a freakin catagory list for it would be nice...I'm not going back till they fix that!!!!
dioman13
Member Since: August 19, 2007
entire network: 2,184 Posts
KitMaker Network: 356 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 04:57 AM UTC
A gross use of a tragedy that is very personal to me. I delivered to the world trade center 2 or 3 times a week. I personaly dealt with the security, frieght elevator opperators and delivery people in the variuos areas of the buildings. None of them servived the attack. I was very pissed off when this was brought to my attention and it takes awhile for me to calm down from something as such. BUT, an appology is an appology, and I will accept it as it is. Just a bad call that should have been caught before being let out to the public. It does happen all the time, the proof readers can not catch them all though I agree, someone should have. None of us are perfect and if we all held our ground on dissagrements, there'd be no peace amongst us. If we can not forgive, then we have become as insensitive as the offender.
staff_Jim
PublisherMember Since: December 15, 2001
entire network: 12,571 Posts
KitMaker Network: 4,397 Posts
Posted: Friday, September 18, 2009 - 07:51 AM UTC
As someone who deals with marketing both on this site and professionally this was a serious lapse in judgement to even consider creating this ad. If I was Loic I would fire this person and anyone responsible for approving this ad. Great Models use to be a supporter and advertiser of this site, and some time ago they pulled all their advertising. Oddly they were one of the highest click-through advertisers we had at the time too. I hope they will reconsider many of their marketing decisions including NOT coming here to post an apology.
Jim
Jim
GALILEO1
Member Since: April 18, 2006
entire network: 1,794 Posts
KitMaker Network: 304 Posts
Posted: Friday, September 18, 2009 - 08:38 AM UTC
Jim, and all, the culprit here was not the graphic artist alone but his boss, Loic himself. Read this note Loic sent to one of the moderators at Hyperscale. Note though that this was sent as a result of an email sent by the moderator (Steve) asking for an explanation before their formal apology....
----------------------
Steven,
actually I appreciated that you sent me this note. I left before being able to review the ad from my graphic guy, and now I see all the mess in HS and other ad places. I have immediately taken action BECAUSE OF YOUR MESSAGE. Due to the many personal activities this weekend, and all the employees being off, we will only address our apology on Monday. But again, thanks for your personal message.
Regards,
Loic
------------------------------
The problem for me here is that he states that he left before 'reviewing' the ad. Yes, if he had stayed and 'reviewed' it he may have changed the wording, etc, but this still tells me that he did knowingly still approve of an ad that was actually tied to 9/11. The graphic artist (his employee) just probably did what he was told - to come up with a banner for the 9/11 sale. As Scott mentioned above, why would anyone ever use 9/11 as a sales pitch? For me it's not just the wording of the ad itself (which was despicable), but that he used 9/11 for a sale at all. Call me a hater all you want (Tom) but they still will never again see a penny from me (which I know they probably don't care about anyway since they have people who could care less about what happend and will still get them revenue).
You've got to ask yourself though, how come other companies didn't run an 9/11 sale? I surely did not see a single one!
Rob
----------------------
Steven,
actually I appreciated that you sent me this note. I left before being able to review the ad from my graphic guy, and now I see all the mess in HS and other ad places. I have immediately taken action BECAUSE OF YOUR MESSAGE. Due to the many personal activities this weekend, and all the employees being off, we will only address our apology on Monday. But again, thanks for your personal message.
Regards,
Loic
------------------------------
The problem for me here is that he states that he left before 'reviewing' the ad. Yes, if he had stayed and 'reviewed' it he may have changed the wording, etc, but this still tells me that he did knowingly still approve of an ad that was actually tied to 9/11. The graphic artist (his employee) just probably did what he was told - to come up with a banner for the 9/11 sale. As Scott mentioned above, why would anyone ever use 9/11 as a sales pitch? For me it's not just the wording of the ad itself (which was despicable), but that he used 9/11 for a sale at all. Call me a hater all you want (Tom) but they still will never again see a penny from me (which I know they probably don't care about anyway since they have people who could care less about what happend and will still get them revenue).
You've got to ask yourself though, how come other companies didn't run an 9/11 sale? I surely did not see a single one!
Rob
SSGToms
Member Since: April 02, 2005
entire network: 3,608 Posts
KitMaker Network: 512 Posts
Posted: Friday, September 18, 2009 - 09:11 AM UTC
Rob, that's not even the most damning quote. In his "apology" he admits that the whole thing was HIS idea:
"On Friday night, just minutes before we left the office, I told our graphic designer to make a quick banner for the deep sale we intended to pursue for next week. I told him "9-11" and "Crushing Prices"."
So this was not a mistake or an accident, it was intentional. He just didn't expect it to be a big deal. Not counting on customer reaction was the only mistake he made.
Do you walk into a Jewish Synagogue with a swastika armband, then say "Oh sorry did that offend you?" and have coffee and cake?
Do you walk into a black Baptist church wearing a white hood and swinging a noose, then exclaim "I'm shocked ! I had no idea this was inappropriate! Gee I'm sorry." and attend their picnic?
There are some things that are just so obviously, heinously wrong to even a third grader that you just do not do them in the first place. Period.
Sorry is something you say when you do something by accident. This was no accident.
Sorry, but this man's judgement base, his sense of right and wrong, is just so corroded that it can not be trusted. Those that continue to be customers are giving him their credit card numbers? Good luck with that.
"On Friday night, just minutes before we left the office, I told our graphic designer to make a quick banner for the deep sale we intended to pursue for next week. I told him "9-11" and "Crushing Prices"."
So this was not a mistake or an accident, it was intentional. He just didn't expect it to be a big deal. Not counting on customer reaction was the only mistake he made.
Do you walk into a Jewish Synagogue with a swastika armband, then say "Oh sorry did that offend you?" and have coffee and cake?
Do you walk into a black Baptist church wearing a white hood and swinging a noose, then exclaim "I'm shocked ! I had no idea this was inappropriate! Gee I'm sorry." and attend their picnic?
There are some things that are just so obviously, heinously wrong to even a third grader that you just do not do them in the first place. Period.
Sorry is something you say when you do something by accident. This was no accident.
Sorry, but this man's judgement base, his sense of right and wrong, is just so corroded that it can not be trusted. Those that continue to be customers are giving him their credit card numbers? Good luck with that.
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