I don't mean that as morbid, but how long did it take before Tora Tora Tora! came out after Pearl Harbor? How many years will it take before a well-done movie can be made without a public outrage?

Maybe following several different people, such as firemen, policemen, bussinessmen, even the F-15 pilots?

I knew many who were killed, my uncle actually became a hero after pulling out the last survivor from the collapse and nearly getting killed, and if the movie was carefully done I would have no problem with it.

Already been done for the most part. A&E or TNT (one of the cable stations) made a TV movie about Rudy Guilani. Another movie was made recently with Sigorney Weaver. The focus was on one firehouse and the loss of the men there.
As far as a movie that goes through the events of the day- with scenes aboard the airplanes, the people struggling for control of Flight 93, etc I doubt a movie like that would ever be made(My God, who would want to see those people jumping out of the Twin Towers again?) .
I think of the movies Tora Tora Tora (made in the late 60's or early 70's) and the movie Pearl Harbor. Tora Tora Tora was an excellent movie that developed and showed the events as they unfurled. Pearl Harbor was a HORRIBLE movie- it tried to be too 'hip'. It was like a showcase for computer graphics- oh- let's show the bomb as it punches through the deckplates, and lets show the sailors seconds before they die. -Horrible. Tora Tora Tora showed the days events without going to those extremes.
If any more movies were made, I think they'd be along the lines of following police, or firefighters, or rescue workers. Anything focusing on the terrorists- and you give too much airtime to their twisted cause.
Disney can't even make a feel good movie about a rescue dog finding trapped kids or something- cause nothing like that happened.
As a New yorker I'm pretty biased, I watched the smoke rise from my apartment window, and having my wife (NYPD) on the street and at Ground Zero, I can't imagine someone making a movie about 9/11.
Cool thing to remember- I remember being on the 104th floor once ( a long time ago) and actually feeling the building sway back and forth.

Peter

I was on the Staten Island ferry the other day and thinking about how it still hits you to realize how big those buildings were. Very sad. I hope they can start on the new structures soon. Actually, there is still one more building yet to be brought down.

I really don't think anyone will touch a 'major' 911 film for quite a while. I think it's way too early and painfull. The Rudy movie only featured 911 as a part of a larger story.

Even more than poor taste, I think it has to do with making money. Hulk = $. 911 = controversy.

Steve

Hulk = $. 911 = controversy

-I don't get the reference, but I havn't seen the movie yet
Yup- I used to be able to see the Twin Towers from the Meadowbrook Parkway out on Long Island, on my way to work in the morning.

I was down inside Ground Zero on Memorial day after my uncle got the NYPD Medal of Honor and we were allowed to just be down there, it was very still. I can remember sitting in the resturant up in the tower, never giving a second thought that a plane might've come through the window, years ago of course. Aftter seeing the destoyed families, and hearing my uncle retell the event from the inside of the towers, and knowing so many who are still missing, I don't need a movie to replay that day.

I almost pity some people, they've never been in Manhatten, never seen the towers, don't know anybody who was there, it's so distant to them I wish there was a movie that could put it into perspective for them, show the terrible reality that changed lives, but left theirs inaffected. I don't know, in one way I'm glad it hasn't touched them, but on another level i wish they could feel the way that we do about it.

Some "entertainment" will have to be done. "Third Watch" did a memorial type show, Robert Dinero hosted a TV documentary. At some point, some form of movie/program will be done to memorialize those unspeakable events. There needs to be an accesible "show" for that.

As a New Englander, I was no more than one or two degrees of separation ofrom people in the towers. A close frind and collegue's SO lost her niece, a club member's niece lst her husband. My town lost 2 or 3 natives to this.

I was in Nashville that morning planning a visit to the Franklin, TN ACW battleground and a 6 PM flight home. Instead, we essentialy stole our rental car and drove from Nashville to Buffalo, NY before a short night's rest and home.

My personal recollection of the towers (they almost seem human, now) was a bus trip to NYC which was to includ a visit to the top of the world which was missed due to my wife wanting to get the flavor of lower Manhattan. That and a shot from directly overhead as we flew from Boston to DC for the 1985 Marine Corps Marathon.

Such overpowering sadness.

This is a really interesting thread. I personally think that 9-11 could not (at least at the present time) be presented as a movie. A more 'segmented' movie could be made concentrating on individual aspects of 9-11. It is still too fresh in many people's memories and personally I would doubt the 'tastefulness' of attempting to do the movie.

Someone mentioned 'Pearl Harbor'. This was Hollywood at its most obnoxious. With an insensitivity which was impressive, a disregard for history which was arrogant in the extreme and a plot-line which was risible it was sad to see one of the blackest moments in U.S. history sanitized in this manner. This sadly, is what I believe would happen with a similar treatment of 9-11. Amongst the superb material which was filmed that day, I personally believe the best, is a documentary made by two canadian brothers. By accident they were working on a documentary about rookie firemen when the events of 9-11 unfolded in front of their eyes. This beggars the question, why do we need a dramatization of these events at all? Jim

I heard some time ago that they were actually making a movie already, or about to start. Not sure if this is to be a hollywood style movie or a made for tv movie. The title was supposed to be 9 11, lets roll!
I think it was supposed to be based loosely around the flight were the passengers bravely tried to take recontrol of their aircraft, hence the title.
Havent heard anything recentlythough so they may have changed there minds, perhaps someone could shed some light on this?

Interesting thread guys. I hope that if any movie is made of those awful events that it is done with respect and sensitivity. I hope to God it is not done "Hollywood" style with Bruce Willis or Arnie running round in a vest being heroic. I'm not trying to be trivial here, I just think that there will be movies made in the future about 911. Who after WW2 would have considered there ever being movies about the holocaust? And yet Speilberg produced a genuinely important film about the subject in a thoughtful and intelligent way in Schindler's List.

I guess my point was that it is safe and economically sensible to make a movie based on a comic book or just about anything else for that matter. But, make a movie about something so real and so painful, you may be facing some real anger at the box office.

After all, it is money that drives the entertainment industry. Not art for art's sake as some may have you believe!

Steve

Hulk reference- ahh ok I get it now

A 9/11 movie called 'Let's Roll' - just thinking about it makes me shudder.
I still think of the Tora Tora Tora/Pearl Harbor comparison. Tora Tora Tora- an excellent movie on the events leading up to and the events of Dec. 7. Pearl Harbor- horrible Hollywood trash. Stupid plot lines, stupid love story- I can just see some Hollywood idiot saying- "Lets put a love story subplot in the movie so we get the chicks to see it"....
I havn't seen the movie (and I can't remember the title,) but as I mentioned before Sigorney Weaver did a movie based on a firehouse and their loss. Movies like that- I would think of as acceptable. Cliched Hollywood plot- Southerner, or Midwestener who never visited NYC, kind of drifting through life with little focus, drives to Ground Zero to help out and has a life altering experience.
But whatever movies are made- I hope they keep the footage of the Towers falling out of it. We've seen it enough.


AirB- grats to your uncle!

I have no doubt that one day there will be a movie, likely very graphic, but I'm sure it'll be 20, 30 years before they could even think of pulling it off. We're approaching only the third anniversary and we all know the timeline of that day in our sleep, but 45 years from now there'll be people whose only knowledge of it will be from textbooks, and maybe someone that they know once knew someone who was involved. That's the way Pearl Harbor was for children who knew almost nothing about it, now they base their knowledge on that movie.

I agree that a 9/11 film would be in bad taste right now. Eventually, there will be one done. History Channel's Modern Marvel documentary on the Twin Towers was completed prior to the disaster and they handled the showing very well.

I also think what Steve's saying here is that a Hulk movie makes money, a 9/11 movie will lead to controversy.

I did notice that the first trailer for the Spider-Man movie was pulled after the disaster. I was hoping it would be included in the limited edition DVD set, but it wasn't. That was a really cool scene.

I believe the wounds opened by 911 are still raw, and the memories of the day still fresh in people’s minds. People not involved can still remember what they were doing on that day. Making a 911 movie now would be equal to making Schindler’s list just after WW2.

Speaking of Spiderman, there is one quick scene in the movie where the Twin Towers are reflected in Spidey's goggles. When I saw it I was very happy to see that. My guess it's a tiny tribute by the director of the film.

Phantom- You are very correct. As Gen. Patton himself said "the very thought of loosing is distasteful". 9/11 was not a loss, but a sneak attack the same as Pearl Harbor (Dec 7, not the horrible movie - which was a sneak attack by Hollywood.) I think American culture can accept a 9/11 movie that doesn't have a feel good ending- as long as it doesn't graphically depict the Towers, the Pentagon, or Flight 93. Like I mentioned before- sort of a 'day in the life of a cop/fireman/EMT, but the day was 9/11.

Going back to Pearl Harbor ( the movie) - My God it was SO stupid to :
1) depict FDR standing up to get his point across
2) draw out the entire Doolittle raid.

Tora Tora Tora ends with the Japanese heading back to Japan, the American carriers being deployed to sea, and Pearl Harbor still in flames. No feel good ending- the fact that we eventually won the war was 'feel good' enough.

Iraq and Afghanistan- if we are not careful, can easily turn into another Northern Ireland or another Vietnam.
What politicians don't seem to understand is that American support for the troops does not automatically equate to American support for policy. If Bush & co. takes a half-hearted approach to the rebuilding of Iraq, with the results of more American and British dead, American opinion will turn against Bush & co.
American support for policy lasts as long as we feel the politicians are giving 100% support. Once it appears that the support of the politicians is wavering, American attitude toward policy will turn sour. We will still support the troops, but not the policy.

Just one more thing I think I'll add. Even though I feel a Hollywood 911 is not a good idea, I do think we should continue to be reminded of what was lost on that day.

Like the above mentioned History Channel show (and others documentaries on PBS and the wonderful 911 film by the French brothers who were making a film about a rookie firefighter when the attacks 'interrupted' their project) I'm glad that those are being made.

Sometimes I feel that those who have never been to NY or those who don't have a connection may not be affected like those closer to what happened. I think some of you guys have already been mentioning this.

I really hope we don't try to sanatize the event (or other things happening elsewhere in the world) and make sure people understand that 911 was more than a movie or a special effect that occured almost three years ago.

Steve

Sniper,
I agree 100%. Documentaries, etc are a great way to keep fresh what happened. I guess the general feel of the posters here is that a Hollywood movie with drama and Bruce Willis would be about the worst thing that could be done. It'd be like making a Holocaust movie and having Arnold Schwarzenegger single-handedly freeing all the captives at Auschwitz.

The original question was how long did it take for Tora Tora Tora to be made after Pearl Harbor-

From a website called"Pearl Harbor in the Movies
http://www.angelfire.com/film/pearlharbormovies/

1953 -From Here to Eternity-
"The movie won an Oscar© for best picture, along with seven other awards. Although the attack on Pearl Harbor is not the focus of the movie, then it is the climax, both because the viewer knows it will happen, and because it changes the lives of everyone involved."

1965 - In Harm's Way
"Although this movie is highly fictitious then it is worth seeing. The attack on Pearl Harbor seems real even without ever showing one attacking Japanese plane. The start of the movie shows how a destroyer sinks a Japanese midgetsub, and immediately thereafter the attack on Pearl Harbor begins and catapults the characters into the war in the Pacific, but also into events in their own lives. The movie is filled with stars such as John Wayne, Kirk Douglas, Henry Fonda, Patricia Neal, Jill Haworth and upcoming stars Carroll O’Connor and Larry Hagman of “Dallas fame."

1970 Tora Tora Tora
"This movie is a must-see. It could even be considered to teach history that is how precisely it depicts the build-up to the attack of December 7, 1941. The movie is a Japanese-US co-production. This movie precludes personal stories of the characters, but this should not keep you from watching it. Jason Robards who plays Lt. Gen. Walter C. Short was serving aboard USS Honolulu at the time of the attack. The movie won an Oscar© for best visual effects."

2001 Pearl Harbor
"This movie was released with a lot of media-hype. Not only was the movie one of the most expensive ever made even the premier in Hawaii was one of the most costly that a movie could have. The premier was on board an aircraft carrier, movie-stars and Pearl Harbor survivors attended along with a whole army of people from the press covering the event. The movie in uses a lot of special effects to depict the attack, but was criticized for the love-story that took up a lot of time in the movie. A directors cut, on four DVD's, should be a little bit more war and less love, for the person who wants to watch a war movie."

And the 'entire' list-
# "Secret Agent of Japan," Twentieth Century Fox, 1942
# "Little Tokyo, USA," Twentieth Century Fox, 1942
# "Across The Pacific," Warner Bros., 1942
# "Remember Pearl Harbor," Republic, 1942
# "Submarine Raider," Columbia Pictures, 1942
# "December 7, 1941," U.S. Navy, 1943
# "Air Force," Warner Bros., 1943
# "Blood on the Sun," United Artists, 1945
# "From Here to Eternity," Columbia Pictures, 1953
# "Hell's Half Acre," Republic Pictures, 1954
# "The Revolt of Mamie Stover," Twentieth Century Fox, 1956
# "Jungle Heat," United Artists, 1957
# "I Bombed Pearl Harbor," (Taiheiyo no Arashi) Parade Releasing/Toho Company, 1961
# "In Harms Way," Paramount Pictures, 1965
# "Admiral Yamamoto," Toho Company, 1968
# "TORA! TORA! TORA!," Twentieth Century Fox, 1970
# "Midway," Universal Pictures, 1976
# "Pearl," ABC, 1978-1979, TV Mini-series
# "From Here to Eternity," NBC, 1979, TV Version
# "The Final Countdown," United Artists, 1980
# "Imperial Navy," Toho Company, 1980
# "The Winds of War," ABC, 1983, 18-hour TV Series about WWII
# "War and Remembrance," ABC, 1988, Sequel to "The Winds of War."
# "Pearl Harbor," Buena Vista, 2001

7 movies within 2 years of Pearl Harbor- War propaganda for sure, but I guess Hollywood can be considered as having a better track record with only 2 9/11 movies made so far.

Sorry I've talked too much

The commentary on Tora, Tora, Tora is right on the money. A very balanced film that makes an effort to show both sides of the attack.

Perhaps, buts lets remember that the title came from documented facts of what we know to be true. from the last phone calls of people on mobiles when it was actually happening!
And lets break down the title to be fair
Ok so we have 9 11 - the date,
Lets roll - hard to describe but in my interpretation A valiant battle cry from some one who wasn't going to sit down and take it, some one who realised how bad the situation was and did his very best to cahnge it whilst encouraging others, some one who for ever amount of time gave hope to others in the surounding area
IN MY BOOKS HE WAS A HERO!!!!!!.
Gentleman I toast
"Lets Roll!!"

Cap'n Mar,
I agree 100% with you- my shudder comes from what I think Hollywood's version of the events would be, i.e. why I keep comparing Tora! Tora! Tora! with Pearl Harbor.

The idiots in Hollywood would probably overly dramatize the events, and throw in a 'love story'- ala Pearl Harbor- "just to get the chicks into the movie theater" - a line from a previous post of mine. Maybe a little callous, but too often the Almighty Buck drives morality, decency, and common sense out of Hollywood. /rant off

The cable TV movie about Rudy Guiliani was pretty good. It was 'graphic' - the movie didn't show people jumping (thank God), but there was a scene in which Rudy and crew stood there helpless as they watched people jump from the Towers. Tastefully done (given the subject matter), we saw Rudy's reactions and how the events affected him.

Peter

I understand your opinion and agree with it, but I think you overestimate the bulk of the American viewing public.

#:-)

Not many movies have made it out within the last few years without having a love theme attached, Blackhawk Down and Behind Enemy Lines being about the only. I could see the love story plot: Two teenagers, they say they'll always be together. Years go by, she becomes a bussinesswoman him a fireman. 9/11 comes, she's in the towers, he runs into the towers with only her on his mind.......

I think that the nation as a whole would be divided on the subject of the movie. People will have reasons to stand either for it ar against for many more years. I'm sure if proposed it would have been a similar debate to the fiasco on what should be built on the site, or whether anything should be built at all, should it be bigger, smaller, just make it a park, leave it as it is, nearly everybody had a different view.

Strangely enough, Tora Tora Tora is on TV this afternoon.