I managed to squeeze in 2 hours of bench time last night and I had a bit of an epiphany.
Building models for the sake of building models is fun.
Building models for the sake of winning AMPS medals is not.
There are 2 kits on my benchtop.
DML's Smart Panther G
Tamiya's Late G with a boatload of aftermarket, a stalled AMPS project from at least a year ago.
Progress last night:
Smart Panther G
Plastic skirt hangers, plastic skirts, plastic poison gas panels on turret roof, plastic compass mount, kit supplied foliage loops.
Tamiya Panther G Aber hangers and skirts, aber gas panels and compass mount, drilled for wire foiliage loops and made welds from putty.
Smart panther parts cut, filed, and added to kit in less then 30 min
Aber parts cut, fold, solder, glue to kit 1.5hr +
Smart panther frustration level very low
Tamiya panther frustration level significant
Smart Panther references checked 1 or 2
Tamiya Panther references checked 4+
Smart panther chance of medaling at AMPS very low
Tamiya panther chance of medaling at AMPS higher.
Which is smarter?
Mike
Modeling in General
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Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Building for yourself vs for shows
MLD
Member Since: July 21, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 08:22 PM UTC
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 08:38 PM UTC
Even when I lived in the land of many shows (Massachusettts), I still built for myself and had a lot of fun. I entered many of my kits into the various local and regional shows and won a number of awards.
Here in Kentucky, the "local" shows are well over 100 miles away (my local club's show is only about 20 miles away). Because of this, I don't enter in the shows because of the time required to remain at the show until the end.
I still build kits, but now most go straight into the cabinet and are never seen outside my house. The only time they are "displayed" is if I take a photo of them to submit to a group build online.
While I liked to enter into shows and enjoyed winning little plaques (piled in a box in the basement), I still get just as much enjoyment out of just building the kits.
Right now I am building the ICM PzKpfw II Ausf. F 'Flamingo'. I'm building it straight OOB and enjoying every minute of it. In fact, I think I'm enjoying more because I really don't care about accuracy or detail because I know no one will ever see it. I don't have to worry about it being good enough for a show or if someone will nitpick it.
BTW, besides some minor sink marks and very soft plastic, the kit is very nice, well detailed and easy to build.
Here in Kentucky, the "local" shows are well over 100 miles away (my local club's show is only about 20 miles away). Because of this, I don't enter in the shows because of the time required to remain at the show until the end.
I still build kits, but now most go straight into the cabinet and are never seen outside my house. The only time they are "displayed" is if I take a photo of them to submit to a group build online.
While I liked to enter into shows and enjoyed winning little plaques (piled in a box in the basement), I still get just as much enjoyment out of just building the kits.
Right now I am building the ICM PzKpfw II Ausf. F 'Flamingo'. I'm building it straight OOB and enjoying every minute of it. In fact, I think I'm enjoying more because I really don't care about accuracy or detail because I know no one will ever see it. I don't have to worry about it being good enough for a show or if someone will nitpick it.
BTW, besides some minor sink marks and very soft plastic, the kit is very nice, well detailed and easy to build.
RichardM
Member Since: August 13, 2006
entire network: 383 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 08:41 PM UTC
You answered your own question: 
Quote:
Building models for the sake of building models is fun.
Smart panther frustration level very low
So be smart, built for fun
And if you think you need tons of AM stuff for an AMPS competition then have a look at T-72 by Rob Feehan. Silver medal for an OOB kit, not bad hey!?
Quote:
Building models for the sake of building models is fun.
Smart panther frustration level very low
So be smart, built for fun
And if you think you need tons of AM stuff for an AMPS competition then have a look at T-72 by Rob Feehan. Silver medal for an OOB kit, not bad hey!?
slodder
Member Since: February 22, 2002
entire network: 11,718 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 10:20 PM UTC
I build for myself. One large reason is that there aren't any shows near me. I know if there were I would challenge myself every once in a while to enter a show. It would be my motivation to really do well on a kit.
Dixon66
Member Since: December 12, 2002
entire network: 1,500 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 10:54 PM UTC
Hi Mike,
Where've you been lately?
I'm like Robin and others in that I build for me, usually with minimal checking of references. I enter them anyway and do OK. Most of my builds are OOB or conversions that require only replacement of existing parts or maybe some detail removal to add the conversion parts. I almost never use PE unless it is already in the kit.
Since I've never attended AMPS East or AMPS Nats, so I can't comment on the fun vs stress of entering there personally, but have heard enough stories from those who have to probably never enter. Andy is still trying to get me to go though.
The only time I build for contests are the GSMC (Granite State Modelers Club, for those who don't know us) ones such as the Wespe, Spitfire and the latest Pass the Stash Trash build. Heck, one of those builds, my AH-1W, still managed to do well at Nor'eastCon.
My best ones are the ones I build for me, I'm not a rivet counter and never will be.
See you soon,
Dave S.
Where've you been lately?
I'm like Robin and others in that I build for me, usually with minimal checking of references. I enter them anyway and do OK. Most of my builds are OOB or conversions that require only replacement of existing parts or maybe some detail removal to add the conversion parts. I almost never use PE unless it is already in the kit.
Since I've never attended AMPS East or AMPS Nats, so I can't comment on the fun vs stress of entering there personally, but have heard enough stories from those who have to probably never enter. Andy is still trying to get me to go though.
The only time I build for contests are the GSMC (Granite State Modelers Club, for those who don't know us) ones such as the Wespe, Spitfire and the latest Pass the Stash Trash build. Heck, one of those builds, my AH-1W, still managed to do well at Nor'eastCon.
My best ones are the ones I build for me, I'm not a rivet counter and never will be.
See you soon,
Dave S.
jazza
Member Since: August 03, 2005
entire network: 2,709 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 11:09 PM UTC
I have never entered any of my builds into any competitions so its entirely for fun. I may perhaps consider entering some of my builds into those competitions one day but until that day comes, i just enjoy building an army of tanks and soft skin vehicles on my display shelf. Just looking at the lot gives me alot of satisfaction and inspiration. Why else would i be doing this hobby. 
Sandy
Member Since: June 24, 2002
entire network: 628 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 11:33 PM UTC
Hi all, I build for both , but for shows I hold model workshops at nearly all the shows I attend . Demmo various methods such as alluminium foil working , rivets by the million , and weathering without paint etc. I get more fun talking and demmoing and as a result I build mainly for fun . At the moment I am building the Boulder car for the IPMS UK Out of the Box sig stand Wackey Races for Telford 2007 show . cheers ian
JackFlash
Member Since: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 11:54 PM UTC
Though I have not been to a contest in many years to compete, I have to say that my early years competing helped me become a better modeler. Its strictly a matter of choice and as judging is so subjective, for me it is important to focus on the aspect of seeing things about my builds that I normally would not even consider. Asking experienced modelers to look at your build and critique it and learning better ways to accomplish the build. When I build for fun its to accomplish a goal. That goal is to make it better and eye catching. These are just my opinions and I never ask anyone to live by my standards.
I do like to go to contests now to help judge the Juniors. I like helping younger modelers.
I do like to go to contests now to help judge the Juniors. I like helping younger modelers.
MLD
Member Since: July 21, 2002
entire network: 3,569 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 12:00 AM UTC
Dave,
Been tossing boxes for a large package delivery corporation in the evenings lately, but that's over for the season now.
I'm not anti-show. And as a teacher, I'm not anti-challenge or anti-goal.
The backstory to this is that I set a goal for myself a few years ago to try to win an intermediate gold medal at AMPS before I was 40. I didnt make it.
I'm part of a small local club with a couple of amazing national-level builders and I am a little competetive too...
Not that I'm going to stop trying, but the chase was a long and frustrating one. I still want that medal, but the thrill of the chase has diminished for me.
I'll be at AMPS this spring and they will be something on the table, but if it medals or not, I'm done going out of my way chasing that gold for now.
Life is too short to stress over hobbies.
Mike
Been tossing boxes for a large package delivery corporation in the evenings lately, but that's over for the season now.
I'm not anti-show. And as a teacher, I'm not anti-challenge or anti-goal.
The backstory to this is that I set a goal for myself a few years ago to try to win an intermediate gold medal at AMPS before I was 40. I didnt make it.
I'm part of a small local club with a couple of amazing national-level builders and I am a little competetive too...
Not that I'm going to stop trying, but the chase was a long and frustrating one. I still want that medal, but the thrill of the chase has diminished for me.
I'll be at AMPS this spring and they will be something on the table, but if it medals or not, I'm done going out of my way chasing that gold for now.
Life is too short to stress over hobbies.
Mike
Dixon66
Member Since: December 12, 2002
entire network: 1,500 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 12:07 AM UTC
Mike,
Now that the stressing over it is done, it will come and much easier too! You're a much more talented modeler than I am to say the least.
Dave S.
Now that the stressing over it is done, it will come and much easier too! You're a much more talented modeler than I am to say the least.
Dave S.
Plasticbattle
#003
Member Since: May 14, 2002
entire network: 9,763 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 12:22 AM UTC
Build for me only. I cant build differently for any reason, especially for a competition as I have little, to no, competitive nature. Coming first or last doesnt make any difference, as long I feel Ive given it my best shot.
Id rather build 10 models in a year ..... to a level Im happy with, than stress to finish just one, in an attempt to win something.
If my next model is better than my last, Ive already suceeded!
Id rather build 10 models in a year ..... to a level Im happy with, than stress to finish just one, in an attempt to win something.
If my next model is better than my last, Ive already suceeded!
AJLaFleche
Member Since: May 05, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 01:56 AM UTC
I like competing as a road to self improvement, But ultimately, I build for myself, especially since I'm doing almost exclussively 54mm single or mounted figures and vignettes.Given most shows, thet leaves me about 4 classes in which to compete (Single figure, vignette/diorama, mounted and collections and maybe fantasy.) If I were building for the shows and trophies, I'd be spreading nyself out more with 120mm figures, which I don't like as much as their smaller brethren. I can remember only once in the recent past building something for a theme award, Andrea's Apache for the Arizona theme at the 2004 nationals. I was inpired to pull him outof the stash by an Armoarma member who had displayed his here then challenged myself to an 8 day build in acrylics to produce a good looking figure. While he didn't place in Phoenix, he did okay at a couple other shows later in the year but the real pleasure was in getting him done well.
SSgt1Shot
Member Since: December 01, 2004
entire network: 535 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 04:00 AM UTC
I build for the fun of it, as like Sabot I'm in KY and I'm far more remote than he he is, so the closest shows to me are nearly 200 miles away and the closest club a 100. Makes it a little hard to stay motovated at times when no one within many miles of does any modeling. If it wasn't for the web I doubt I'd do much at all.
Moezilla
Member Since: June 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 08:34 AM UTC
Unless you're getting paid for your troubles or you enjoy the heat of competition, build for the fun of it. I will be entering my first model show in a couple of months, just out of curiosity to see where my skills are and if for some reason I win, it's a bonus. Would I like to win, of course I would love to like anyone else would but I'm not going to stress over it.
I've heard some good stories from shows and some bad, the bad ones seem to revolve around the same issues. Some shows tend to be won by people running the shows in a lot of categories, that turns me off. Why bother working hard on a kit, paying your entry fee and putting your work out when in some instances the winner is 'predetermined' or it seems like it is based on past history from other people who have attended some shows. Not saying all shows are like that but I've heard comments like that from more than one person, is this other peoples sour grapes or is there some truth in these comments? Just curious...
Either way, if ya ain't havin' fun then it's not a hobby but a job and there better be a payday in it.
I've heard some good stories from shows and some bad, the bad ones seem to revolve around the same issues. Some shows tend to be won by people running the shows in a lot of categories, that turns me off. Why bother working hard on a kit, paying your entry fee and putting your work out when in some instances the winner is 'predetermined' or it seems like it is based on past history from other people who have attended some shows. Not saying all shows are like that but I've heard comments like that from more than one person, is this other peoples sour grapes or is there some truth in these comments? Just curious...
Either way, if ya ain't havin' fun then it's not a hobby but a job and there better be a payday in it.
MLD
Member Since: July 21, 2002
entire network: 3,569 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 09:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mike,
Now that the stressing over it is done, it will come and much easier too! You're a much more talented modeler than I am to say the least.
Dave S.
Dave,
"Dont sell yourself short Judge. You're an incredible slouch"
Name the movie for a beer on me at Martha's after the next meeting...
You've got chops too Dave, dont sell yourself short AND you get a LOT more finished than I do in any given year.
I've built more these last 2 nights than since mid-Nov. It feels great.
Good luck with the basement room. Having an inner sanctum helps.. just remember to put a lock on the INSIDE of the door as well..
As for AMPS, it's a good time, the work on display is amazing. The judging system is open and visable to the participants (and the participants judge) , the vendors are mind boggling , and despite my personal bias against the 'requirement' for the use of tons of aftermarket to do well (Gold) I'm still taking what I finish between now and then and going.
Monte
Member Since: December 08, 2002
entire network: 833 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 01:17 PM UTC
Like others I build for myself and the enjoyment. I agree with Al LaFleche and use the show circuit as a measure of my abilities and a learning tool. I particularly like the AMPS shows because of the written critiuqe and comments on the judging foms that they give you. And they inspire me to improve my skills so I can enjoy this hobby even more.
Dixon66
Member Since: December 12, 2002
entire network: 1,500 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 07:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
"Dont sell yourself short Judge. You're an incredible slouch"
Name the movie for a beer on me at Martha's after the next meeting...
Ah yes, Caddyshack, , the great Tw Webb to Judge Smails. Too bad they're both dead, one literally and one professionally.
Man, I love that movie, it was on the other night and I missed most of it. So many great quotes. My favorite:
"You'll get nothing and like it Spaulding!"
To get back on topic, thanks for the kind words Mike. I know I'm OK, but I still think you're better.
Build, have fun, enjoy. Don't stress, it is just a hobby.
Dave S.
MLD
Member Since: July 21, 2002
entire network: 3,569 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 07:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text"Dont sell yourself short Judge. You're an incredible slouch"
Name the movie for a beer on me at Martha's after the next meeting...
Ah yes, Caddyshack, , the great Tw Webb to Judge Smails. Too bad they're both dead, one literally and one professionally.
Man, I love that movie, it was on the other night and I missed most of it. So many great quotes. My favorite:
"You'll get nothing and like it Spaulding!"
To get back on topic, thanks for the kind words Mike. I know I'm OK, but I still think you're better.
Build, have fun, enjoy. Don't stress, it is just a hobby.
Dave S.
Big hitter the Lama..
On your deathbed you will achieve total enlightenment, so I got that going for me.
The pool OR the pond.. the pond would be good for you..
Where'd it go?
Right in the lumberyard. Don't worry, we'll work on it.
That and Fletch.. best stuff he did, too bad it was in the 1980's...
Again with the kind words, but I am pretty sure you're having more fun at it than I have been until this week..
Mike
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Member Since: December 21, 2002
entire network: 7,772 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 09:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Building models for the sake of building models is fun.
Building models for the sake of winning AMPS medals is not.
Building models for the sake of building models is my purpose. I have built for shows and have trophies to show for it, but I do not find the well marketed various"_______ Way" to be authentic nor accurate--just pretty. Like a garden gnome.
Thus I build for me with the hope that my gospel will show the light to the show-modeler heathen
AJLaFleche
Member Since: May 05, 2002
entire network: 8,074 Posts
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Posted: Friday, February 02, 2007 - 01:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
s. Some shows tend to be won by people running the shows in a lot of categories, that turns me off. Why bother working hard on a kit, paying your entry fee and putting your work out when in some instances the winner is 'predetermined' or it seems like it is based on past history from other people who have attended some shows. Not saying all shows are like that but I've heard comments like that from more than one person, is this other peoples sour grapes or is there some truth in these comments?
This comes up whenever the topic of contests is discussed.
Here in New England, there are 6-8 shows a year, including the IPMS regional which is sometimes in New York. I attend most of those and there are quite a few others who do as well. Those of us who do the circuit know each other and the people who run the clubs. To someone who in new to competition, it might seem that the winners are all from the same club, but it is more lilely that it's people who know each other from other events. I've run the numbers from our club's contest several times. The distribution of awards is in almost perfect correlation to the distribution of club members/unaffilaited. That is, if the home club has 20% of the entrants, aboput 29% of the awards go there. If unaffiliated entrannts cosntitute 40% of the entrants, about 40% of the awards go there. Also, typically the sponsoring club will have the highest percentage of entrants, since there are many guys who onlly attend their own club's events.
If a new contest opened up around here and there was obvious home cooking at the initial event, there would be no attendance the following year.
A great way to monitor/prevent this is to help with judging. You'll also learn a great deal about what goes into an awards winning model.
TankCarl
Member Since: May 10, 2002
entire network: 3,581 Posts
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Posted: Friday, February 02, 2007 - 08:49 PM UTC
I build for fun,and because I always wanted to see what a vehicle looks like in 3D.If a show comes up,I bring the latest stuff I have finished and show it off.I pick up ideas on camoflage,and detailing by looking at other entries.If my models medal,fine.but i just go to see,and share. 
BM2
#151
Member Since: November 19, 2005
entire network: 1,361 Posts
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Posted: Friday, February 02, 2007 - 10:54 PM UTC
I always build for myself -if it does well in a show - good if not- Oh Well :-)
That being said - I have 20 + ribbons and 12 plaques 1 kitbuilders trophy and 1 IPMS nationals trophy so it's not like I don't enjoy winning it's just such a let-down sometimes to see the $500 resin kit win with a mediocre paint job and the old renwal kit that has been beautifully done gets nothing. If you ever built one of these you know how much work they take. In the old days IPMS was like the panzer gang you would see 10 sci-fi kits and 20-30 figs and 500 tigers or auf -this or Pkw -that, the last couple of shows it seems that that is changing. I'll let you know - I'm coming out of self imposed retirement and going to Wonderfest this year!
That being said - I have 20 + ribbons and 12 plaques 1 kitbuilders trophy and 1 IPMS nationals trophy so it's not like I don't enjoy winning it's just such a let-down sometimes to see the $500 resin kit win with a mediocre paint job and the old renwal kit that has been beautifully done gets nothing. If you ever built one of these you know how much work they take. In the old days IPMS was like the panzer gang you would see 10 sci-fi kits and 20-30 figs and 500 tigers or auf -this or Pkw -that, the last couple of shows it seems that that is changing. I'll let you know - I'm coming out of self imposed retirement and going to Wonderfest this year!
INDIA11A
Member Since: January 09, 2005
entire network: 577 Posts
KitMaker Network: 135 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 03:16 AM UTC
I build for myself but do enter a couple of competitions just to see how I do. It is mainly to show my work, talk with others and pickup new ideas. It is really nice to pickup a medal but hey, there are some really good builders out there that seem to build to win. I just like building period.
Doug
Doug
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