_GOTOBOTTOM
Modeling in General
General discussions about modeling topics.
PE Aber or Eduard
blackwolf
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 68 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 03:34 PM UTC
Hey guys
Been out of the game for awhile but I'm back now. :-) Anyways i'm going to jump into the world of PE #:-) and I'm looking for some advice. Would you guys go with Aber or Eduard ? Oh, I'm bulding Tamiya's late Jagdpanther . Anything on handeling and bending the little buggers would be helpful . Thanks Scott
Rico
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 13, 2002
entire network: 66 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 04:23 PM UTC
Personally, I'd recommend Eduard, especially if you haven't worked with PE before. I've built a few kits with Eduard sets, and it's small, fiddly stuff, but it's doable. I just got my first Aber set, and it's like you'd need a microscope for eyes and ten fine-point tweezers for fingers to work with this stuff

To bend it, you'll need a flat surface (I use a glass ashtray turned upside down) for a work surface. Then a steel straight-edge to put over the part - position the edge of it over the part where you want to bend it, then get one of those flat "chisel" blades for your X-acto knife, or else a safety razor, to get under the part and bend it upwards.

Cut out a tiny strip of masking tape and stick one end of it to the part, then position the part exactly where you want it on the model, pressing the tape down to hold it in position. Then flip the part up, using the strip of tape like a hinge, and put some CA glue under it, then flip it back down onto the surface of the model. The tape should make it return to the exact position where you want it.

Hope this helps
blackwolf
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 68 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 05:04 PM UTC
Rico
Thanks for the tape tip i would of never thought of that . The more I dig into this thing it looks like the Aber has alot of bits that you might not use .Oh my journey moves on :-) . Scott
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2003 - 12:17 AM UTC
Scott, don't feel the need or requirement to use every single solitary piece of PE that comes on a fret. Sometimes the kit part is just as good or better, other times you can fabricate a better one out of styrene stock.

Having said that, Aber produces superb sets that have a mind-boggling amount of PE within them. The brass is thinner and the relief on the parts is better than Eduards. Don't get me wrong, I have several dozen sets of Eduard PE and I use them frequently.

As far as bending, I bought a Hold-N-Fold about a year ago and use the heck out of it. It was a great help when I was building a 1/72 scale T-80B.
lifestyle
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: October 16, 2002
entire network: 340 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2003 - 05:23 AM UTC
My take is they both have there drawbacks and fetures
BRandneus PIgus
Oberst
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: June 26, 2002
entire network: 851 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2003 - 06:15 AM UTC
First of all, Brandon, have you ever even used PE?
Second, I agree with Rico, if you are just getting "back into the game", you should use the Eduard PE kits because they are not as difficult.
Happy Modelling,
Andrew
moville
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Member Since: January 03, 2003
entire network: 54 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2003 - 09:27 AM UTC
Rico,
Nice tip with the tape, I'll definately have to try it... That's the hardest part with PE is putting it on the kit and keeping it where you want it!
Hollowpoint
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Member Since: January 24, 2002
entire network: 2,748 Posts
KitMaker Network: 841 Posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2003 - 09:56 AM UTC
Great tips and advice here.

I tend to prefer Eduard, but it's just a personal preference with nothing bad to say about Aber. I tend to use more of an Eduard kit than I do of an Aber (some of the stuff is just TOO small!).

One neat thing about Eduard is their Website: http://eduard.rvsnet.cz/

If you go to the PE sets and click "instruction sheet" a pdf file opens and you can see exactly what you get in each set. I find this very helpful in making the decision about whether or not to get a particular set. Sometimes I've simply printed out the Eduard instruction sheet and made the corrections myself with sheet, rod and strip plastic and/or wire.
lifestyle
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: October 16, 2002
entire network: 340 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2003 - 11:04 AM UTC
Actually andrew am using it now
I am using abers marder III set on another marder
And im using eduards t-62 set on a tamiya t-62
And im concluding thAT ALTHOPUGH YOU MIGHT LOSE SOME PARTS AND GET FRUSTRATED WORKING WITH IT IS FUN AS HELL
Btrandenus The GRetus
Grifter
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: November 17, 2002
entire network: 608 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Friday, January 10, 2003 - 11:32 AM UTC
I have used a couple Aber sets for armor kits and the worst part for me was trying to assemble those tiny latches out of 4-5 microscopic parts. They will actually work if you can do it right, but I found it impossible for me. I'm building a tamiya Wespe right now and I've sworn that's my last full Aber PE set. I'm going to check out Eduard's site for those instruction sheets.
stugiiif
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Member Since: December 13, 2002
entire network: 1,434 Posts
KitMaker Network: 114 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 12:49 AM UTC
well. i agree they are both good. i'd use aber if you going into microscopic modeling in 1/35th, and the detail on there jagdpanther set is awesome. but eduard is good and i like them for there selection of parts not as indepth as aber. but another good company if you can find them is Gum-Ka they're an Asian company and do nice basic set for armour. their panther set dml's new kits is excellent and you're not spending the money on parts you're not going to use. good hunting stug
Tankera1
Visit this Community
Tennessee, United States
Member Since: May 05, 2002
entire network: 138 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 10:56 AM UTC
Hollowpoint's tip about Edwaruds web site was great. I went to the site and found the PE for the M-48A3. After looking over the instructions I have decided to purchase it. Thanks.
shiryon
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: April 26, 2002
entire network: 876 Posts
KitMaker Network: 256 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 11:35 AM UTC
As to which to get you need to knoew or decide a couple of things.

1) How do much effort you intend to put in? Aber sets have generally more little bits not always neccessary for the kit

2) Ask around for advise from people who've actualy used the sets. Depending upon their answers you might make a different variant.

3) your personal ability and patience. IF either is not up to it as mentioned Eduard would probably be easier.

As far as manipulating the pieces a good set of tweezers and jewlers pliers go along way. for bending I use different diameter plastic rod and tube. For a more in depth how to do a forum search this topic has had numerous incarnations here at armorama.

shiryon aKa Josh Weingarten
Grifter
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: November 17, 2002
entire network: 608 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 01:25 AM UTC
So I've looked at a whole slew of listings on Eduards site and I cannot find the instruction sheets.....what am I missing?
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 03:42 AM UTC
When you click on the item name, a new window pops up with a picture of the frets. In that window there is the words "Instruction Sheet" click on that and the .pdf files pop up.
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Member Since: May 14, 2002
entire network: 9,763 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,351 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 04:30 AM UTC
After 20 months of modelling i have still never use a PE set. Tempted ... yes. Results .... yes. Afraid .... yes! There are so many things i want to do and so many skills I want to improve, this is one item I wanted to leave to later. I really like the tips here and thought they were most helpful.
Why go for PE so early Blackwolf? Why not just build out of the box for a while and improve building, painting and scratching methods first. There was a post on here a while back from some beginner who had an expensive kit, fruil tracks, Barrel, PE, the works and was wondering how he could salvage the kit as he had messed up the paint job!
I can see the bonus side of PE, but it is in way a must. I believe the best part of modeling is when you have just completed it. Enjoy what you do and if PE is your thing... go for it, but I was only stating that there is another way to go.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 04:34 AM UTC
I would suggest trying a kit that comes with a small fret of PE with it. Some of the RPM kits come with a small set and some newer Tamiya kits have an available PE set grills. Eduard also markets "Zoom kits" that contain a little bit of PE to just quickly dress up the exterior. Go to Eduard's site and take a look.
Grifter
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: November 17, 2002
entire network: 608 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 12:11 PM UTC
Couldn't see the forest for the trees ! Thanks I found it now
blackwolf
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 68 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 12:30 PM UTC
I have no idea why I wanted to try PE so early just something I wanted to do. Ya know how it is. Your in the local hobbie shop,looking around,going through the mental "need" list, and then you see something out of the corner of your eye, you ask about it and then BAM it lands into your hands you dont know how it got their but none the less you buy it and fiddle around with it!! It must be some kind of sickness I guess !! Scott
sphyrna
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: September 24, 2002
entire network: 379 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 04:03 AM UTC
I got back into modeling 4 years ago- built a Stug IV to start, and decided to tackle a DML Jagdtiger. I never was seriously into WWII armor before so it was virgin territory for me. I went all out, Fruil tracks, JB barrel, and I bought an Aber PE set.
Well, even using my dissecting microscope (I'm a marine biologist) that Aber set drove me nuts. I would sit there and stare and these tiny little hinges and think, "they have to be out of their freakin' minds" I kept checking the package the PE set came in for some tiny little people to put these things together.
Don't get me wrong- Aber makes amazing PE sets. If I want the option of 'super-super' detailing a model I'd buy the Aber. Otherwise, I find myself using Eduard more often now. The new Eduard Express PE sets are a great idea- great for those 'I'm just building this model to relax' models.

just my two photo-etched cents
Peter

"You're gonna need a bigger boat"
SS-74
Visit this Community
Vatican City
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 07:37 PM UTC
BlackWolf,

Don't worry about trying PE at an earlier stage. I started to use PE on my third Tank, and never looked back. The first time I used PE it's Aber, and I maybe used 7 pieces of the fret, but now I can use maybe up to 90%, at least all the exterior ones.

My advise is a bit different, I will suggest you to use Aber first, once you are comfortable with Aber, Eduard is like a breather. And Aber is much much much more detailed.

My only tip for PE is apply a drop or two of CA glue on a piece of wax paper, and apply the CA with a pin.

HTH.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:23 AM UTC
If you look in the features section of the site, I have a modeler's tool box article. I made a super glue applicator using a needle and a piece of sprue. Cut off the top part of the eye of the needle so it looks like a "Y" and stick the pointy end of the needle into a drilled hole in the end of the scrap piece of sprue (secure it with CA). The sprue is the handle and the "Y" of the needle holds a good drop of CA. Been using the same one for years.
Kelley
Visit this Community
Georgia, United States
Member Since: November 21, 2002
entire network: 1,966 Posts
KitMaker Network: 297 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 06:35 AM UTC
Hi Blackwolf,
I won't go into which brand to use as that has already been covered, one tip I wanted to offer is you might want to look into purchasing a "folding tool" if you think you might stick with the photo etch. The hold n' fold has been mentioned, there is also the etch mate from missionmodels.com. I have not used the hold n' fold but I got an etch mate recently and it is definitely a big help. I have heard and read that the hold n' fold is good also, but there have been problems actually getting one. (I know this from experience) By the way I am not associated with Mission, it's just that any time I have done business with them the service and the delivery time has been exemplary.
HTH
Mike
blackwolf
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 68 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:27 PM UTC
Well here's a little update on my PE quest. I bought the Aber (the hobby shop didnt have the Eduard),and took Sabot's advice on the hold and fold (good call) if your local hobby shop dosent carry them let me know the one by me has a bunch. Now I think I've used about 7-8 parts so far and launched about 4 more (my fault moving too fast). Right now its kinda a love hate relationship for hatch hanldes great, but some of the smaller stuff I'm passing on. Does anybody make a tool to uncross my eyes after working with some of the smaller parts(hahaha)? Well I do have to say its a new learning curve. Scott
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 04:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anybody make a tool to uncross my eyes after working with some of the smaller parts(hahaha)?


Well, there is an opti-visor that is sold by many retailers. Squadron sell several ones made by Donegon Optical, I also believe Micro Mark sells them too. It'll help you see the miniscule parts. Remember the premier advice most of us Aber vets gave you....no need to use all the parts they supply. Know your limitations and save the more challenging sets for when you become an old pro.

When I take PE off of the frets, I have a shirt box (like you get at Christmastime) that I prop open in a "V" shape. That way if a part gets launched, it at least hits the box and stays between me and the box (usually).
 _GOTOTOP