I was looking at the Royal Tank Museum - Bovington site the other day. Posted there were pictures of two rather battle weary Amtracs LVT II's. According to the small article attached these tracs were recovered from the Normandy landings areas (from the look of both they never made it to shore) and are now on display at the Utah Beach Museum. I have never read accounts of LVT's used at Normandy, but the article indicates a number of them were sent to England pre-invasion.

Anybody in possession of info on why these LVT's would have been inthe Utah Beach area? What outfit used them? Help.

GSP---I will consult my library tonight . My spit ball guess is that the vehicles were not used on 6 June 1944, but came ashore much later and probably were used in the Normandy area as logistics vehicles until the end of the war. The Brits (for sure) used them to move troops when they cleared the Scheldt Estuary in Holland and again to cross the Rhine. But, I am almost willing to bet your Xmas bonus, none at Normandy. Whip me, beat me if I am wrong...

I agree with DJ, however I think that they should have used them at Normandy
I think they would have been far more successful than the DD Shermans.
Now I'm talking about the LVT(A)1 w/37mm gun turret & the LVT(A)4 w/75mm howitzer.
......My feeling's are if they used these in combination to support the men going ashore in Higgins boats.....especially on Omaha, where the 741st Tank Btn. lost 27 of the 32 DD tanks due to the rough waters, strong current, and high swells, those casualties on Omaha would have possibly been far less and would have gotten through the defense's more quickly with LVT support, instead of being pinned down on the beach for so long, in part
because of the 27 DD's that went to the bottom of the ocean and would not be there as planned for fire & support.
Yes, Omaha was the most heavily defended of the beaches, but replacing the DD's & wading trunk tanks with LVT(A)4's and (A)1's, would have given needed fire support for the infantry assault troops, done considerable damage, and advanced further up the beachead. And we saw with our own eye's, and knew for a fact,, that they proved themselves time & time again in the PTO. Where, the Allies knew this DD thing was a risky move from the beginning when practicing for the invasion landings. What I'm basically saying is: the lost DD's would have made a difference in the outcome at Omaha if they made it ashore, but the LVT's I mentioned would have been just as effective, BUT with one slight advantage - THEY WERE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR THE AMPHIBIOUS ASSAULT ROLE & INLAND FIRE & SUPPORT !
WHAT DO YOU THINK DJ ?

- ralph

Gentlemen,
I too went over my research material last night. I have nothing to indicate Amtracs were used in the assault. However, the fact remains in Normandy at the Utah Beach Museum rests the remains of 2 LVTIIs.

The interesting things is that the topic of Amtracs at Normandy was debated on this site not too long ago. As I recall none of the respondants had verifiable information of the use of these vehicles either in the assault or afterwards.

Even the Bovington site is asking for information. They too seem to have little to no information on the Amtracs use. Although Bovington is sure(?) that United States Marines were not operating these Amtracs.

A final thought, neither Ambrose nor Ryan mentioned Amtracs in their books on D-Day. Both of these author/historians spent considerable time researching this day of days.

So the gauntlet is thrown down to Armorama. Anyone out there have information on these or other LVTs used in Europe???

AMTRACs LVT 4 were definitely used by the British. It is a simple system to operate and maintain so specialized drivers and mechanics from the Marines were unwarranted. I think you will find no Army units in Europe used the vehicles. There were, however, Army AMTRAC Battalions in the Pacific and the Army used them quite often on that side of the world.

Hi DJ ............... wasn't it the British end of Operation Varsity that they
were used ?

- ralph

The brits/commonwealth trrops definately used the LVT 4's in Varsity. And the canadians used them in Holland in the Polder country.
I think the LVT's were used for easier offloading off the larger LCT's etc later on after D-day. I read somewhere that it was easier to make the transition from surf to beach to inland with the LVT's than anything else. And after D-day getting the much needed supplies ashore ASAPwould have been an important job and more suited to their capabilites. Why they weren't used in the initial landings is very strange. Was it easier to refit the readily available shermans than to pry the LVT's out of the Navy's hands? If that is the case why were available to be on the beach after the invasion?? Sort of shutting the barn door after the horse is out.

I have no evidence whatsoever that they were used in the D-Day landings, however,
the British and Americans used them in Europe!

Most of the deliveries were to British units, while some were assigned to the 79th Armored Div., the same div. that used the funnies, DD Shermans and the like. Some of these were modified with anti tank guns, a few were fitted to lay mats over muddy terrain, and some were even fitted with flamethrowers. These were equipted under the designation "Sea Serpent". They were used primarily for river crossings - Rhine and Po rivers in early 1945. They were also used to help secure the approaches to Antwerp in late 1944 against the German held islands in the Scheldt Estwary.

Here's some pics I dug up:

U.S. Army northern Europe 44-45 (LVT4)


British in England with a 6lber rigged.(LVT4)


U.S. rigging a 105mm (LVT4)


One being loaded onto a DW in Holland to cross the Maas River (LVT2)


9th Army preparing to board for the Roer River (LVT2 & 4s)


88th Infantry loading a 105mm onto an LVT4 for the Po River


I'm in touch with a couple sources for further info on the use of the Amtracs in Europe. I'll post more info as soon as it becomes available. Enjoy.

Ah, I see. The Ninth US Army (Simpson) was attached to the British 21st Army Group (Montgomery). The British use the AMTRAC and then place them at the disposal of the Ninth USA to cross the Maas and Rhine as shown. Interesting find.

Thanks for the info. One of the pictures shown - the LVT backing off a Dragon Wagon would make a great diorama. Any takers???