Do any of you think censorship exists on Armorama ??? Are some subjects/responses deleted for the rest of our members not to see ??? I have seen them lock topics, thats understandable because some just become a monster on thier own.

But to completely delete a reply or even a WHOLE topic is wrong, why not let US make the choice if its unappropriate, not just an individual because he does not care for the replies.

Case in point, the topic regarding MIG's book FAQ. Where is it? I was reading and even replied in it. Yet I can NO longer find it, searched and searched for it. Even in my profile for posts posted. Did someone feel the topic was going against the grain? If someone finds its, my apologies, but I looked in posts for the past week, and I was reading it yesterday, and its nowhere to be found, imagine that.

It's not been deleted, it's merely been moved until the site owner makes a decision. It's for HIM to decide. It's his site.

Vinnie

Depending on tthe topic... It may be MOVED too a staff only forum for evaluation.

This is First and Foremost a Family oriented Site.

Personal attacks and Completely off topic posts can and May be deleted at a moderators disgression (usually only extreme cases) If in doubt we do seek advice in a Staff only forum

Post can be deleted yes, as Moderators, it is our job to act if we see a post that is breaking the rules.
Cheers

Ok, I understand personal attacks, but what about critique ???? Those are 2 different things, now mentioning about it being the site owners decision to move it,, why move it ??? No one was attacking him personally, was it done to "protect " an individual who has done his part for the hobby ???

Any new kit/book/technique has always been made a topic and people have always been allowed to say yea or nay. So why is THIS time different ?????

Not to say you, moderators, dont do a good job, which you do. Lets not forget it is geared toward family, but this one smells of high noon. Read the topic, where were the personal attacks at him directed ??? Thier were none.

I will point out that this site is wholly owned by an individual and that Jim Starkweather decides what he wants on his site, not us. Jim is more than gracious when he feels there is the slightest doubt about the intentions of a poster, but really he doesn't have to be. It is his site. You would be somewhat put out if I told you how to run your home, and I have a feeling that Jim is the same way, though he is mature enough not to let it show. If Jim, or the men he has entrusted to run his site, choose to lock or delete a topic, that is his choice, not anyone elses.

Ok, I have met Jim a few times and greet him everytime we meet. He is an outstanding person, believe it or not, I enjoy my conversations with him when we have spoken. Now, do we converse like long lost friends, no, but we do know who the other is and take some time. I understand censorship, I know its his website, but I just do not think that protecting M.I.G because of who he is, is in anyway beneficial to the site and its members. Now, was it Jim's direction to move the topic to the "Moderator room only", I do not know, I would not think so anyway. But, why not let the rest of our members decide. It was a review about a $100 + book people, people should decide what their buying and if its worth it.

Personally, I feel someone moved it to protect him and his book. Nothing offensive was directed at him, it was just critique.

I honestly don't think that was the case.

Shaun

Shaun..i totally agree with you. I don't think it was an "attack" on any particular person. I feel that there is a lot of "leneancy" here on this site with the way some topics progress. But when a topic gets to the point , that it is clearly develping into a "war" between two people, it is time for that topic to be either locked, or deleted altogether. No good comes out of it for anyone to listen to two or three idiots go back and forth beating a dead horse.

Mary

Mary, I hope you were not refering to me as an "idiot". Since I did not attack anyone personally, do not like it being done to others, so I expect it not to be done to me.

Again though, about MIG being attacked, some people take it that way, others dont. I just dont think that the topic regarding his book had gotten to the point where people were volleying rounds back and forth, and that it should have been moved to another location not accessible to the rest of us, thats all.

I don't know... but am I the only one who finds some of the "wars" on this site hilarious? I mean c'mon people, act a little bit mature. Now I'm not saying Mig has no right to defend himself, and it's not what they were arguing aboutt that's funny, it's how those guys were arguing with each other. Mig has all the right in the world to defend himself against crtisism, but even he was acting a little babyish in regards to Tappers's feelings on his product. Now what I find really funny is the whole balck muzzle debate.... sorta like the fist fight that erupted over whether it's a Bf-109 or an Me-109 at an IPMS contest no too long ago..... :-)

Sorry, should NOT have been moved to a site not accesible to the rest of us. Corrected.

Hi Spades and the rest!

Let me say to all that there is no censorship or protectionism in Armorama. But I'll go back to this..

When you express your feelings about some product (book, paint, model, AM parts, etc) you have to think that:
- the producer made the best he could/knew;
- the producer is not responsable for the quality of the delivered product;
- the producer could find help for a new product here in armorama.

Of course some makers don't have this kind of actitude, don't perform a customer care service, don't listen, just are in the business for the $$$ - for these kind, they could be selling oranges (if it payed, it would be the same - and I have encountered some of this kind!)

Back to the first part of my message:
The topic was not deleted, the topic is held...

Why? Although it's not in my hands, I am only expressing my feelings about it:
Tapper is a good modeler, an active member of Armorama and, as all of us, entitled to express his opinion (with the usual "net-etiquet", following the rules of this site). MIG as a member, although not that active, is also a good modeler and always surprises us with his latest works... he happens to be a producer.

The misunderstanding and issues raised at that topic were mainly because of spelling issues (and when you have the chance to read it again, you'll know what I am saying), a usual problem when speaking/writing in a "second language".

The other thing that I would like to say is that I would hate that Tapper would quit, and I would hate that MIG would stop the connection we have.
So a little time to cool off will be good to all

Not taking the side of any (nor Tapper nor MIG) the fact that Andrea Publishing is selling the book so (really) expensive is the only problem here.

Just my 2 cents (as a member, not a staffer)
Skipper

Ok skipper, I agree with you. I just hope no one was taking my topic as a personal attack towards anyone, probably sounded like that anyway. Anyway, I will let it rest, just wanted to know what had been going on since I did, at one time, have a post of mine locked, but thats another story for another time.

Not sure the "why" of this post (unless it's recently been unlocked), but the topic in question https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/68473&page=1 is still there and accessible (as of 1702 hours (Mountain), 25 Jan 06.

It did get heated and I believe there was a lot of "slinging" from both sides, but ultimately and ORIGINALLY, it was a "/review." Albiet, one that went from a fair review to one that went to "slinging" regardless.

I've not seen his book but would love to see it (and NOT because of the threads that came from it) because it sounds like it would be a worthwhile tutorial. On the other hand, at $100 or so, I personally, can not afford that.

It was a review that turned to bashing and I'm sorry that happened that way.

Mike (++) (++)

Yes it was "missing" for a period of a few hours today. But was restored........

Errr....of course there is censorship on Armorama. Post a link or image to something really offensive and watch how fast it disappears. :-)

As for topics or posts disappearing that is the purview of the moderators job. When the site had 1000 users we didn't have to do this that often. With 10x as many we do it about the same as back then proportionally.

Nobody likes flame wars except trolls. I think Tapper and Mig both proved today that they are just regular users, not trolls. Why? Because neither of them really felt comfortable slinging stuff back and forth for the world to see. Trolls love that stuff.

Cheers,
Jim

The I one comment to add to this discussion, and I think many here will agree with me on this. For those of you that have been on this site long enough would remember this, the Current Events Forum.

'Nuff said.

Just a thought on maybe avoiding some confusion in the future. How about some "TEMPORARILY LOCKED", "MOVED TO...", and "POST/THREAD DELETED" icons or stamps that moderators or staffers could use to iron out some of the frustration. Let's face it, not all of us are as computer savvy as we'd like to be, and it's sometimes annoying to discover (after a day or two!) that there's nothing wrong with one's server, but a site admin issue.

Ummm, I just read the thread in question and...


OH
MY
GOODNESS!

What a ranting, silly, blah, blah.

Jimmy S, very admirable try at diplomacy.
Tapper, thanks for tapping out.
MIG, Keep writing, I see the intentions you have and you shouldn't be slammed for intentions. Thank you for trying to help the modelers.

I love Armorama. Even if everyone gets a burr under their saddle, we are still family. And we will still be family tomorrow.

Rock on all,

Cuhail