_GOTOBOTTOM
Modeling in General: Advice on...
Need some general advice? Place it here.
How Do you Tell Someone the Model is in the w
Sandy
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 24, 2002
entire network: 628 Posts
KitMaker Network: 212 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 06:22 AM UTC
Hi All, This was asked at a recent club meeting , Just how do you tell a modeller that the very good model of X tank could never have served in that battle as it was not produced till Y year. Without deflating his skills or putt him off from model making / attending the club. To be honest I do not know the answer myself , that is why I am asking for your thoughts cheers ian
GI_Babycakes
Visit this Community
Alaska, United States
Member Since: May 13, 2004
entire network: 451 Posts
KitMaker Network: 158 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 06:27 AM UTC
you can say what shermies rule says to me:
you cant use those guys... you're about 20 years off!
I am new to building and i would rather be as accurate as i can so i dont look like an in front of everyone hopefully the guy at your club will take the same approach....
how about saying... hey that is a great attempt at X battle machinery... or that looks really good, but they didnt use that version of the tank in that era.. they switched to that in 19 xx.
be informative, offer suggestions while enforcing support.
capnjock
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: May 19, 2003
entire network: 860 Posts
KitMaker Network: 340 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 06:35 AM UTC
I would just mention to him/her that if he/she where really interested in the history of that particular type of tank there is much out there in the form of reference. And I would show some of the types of referene that I have. There is no point in saying how off the tank is, especially if the person does not have/or have access to or even knows how to find out about proper references. There are many facets to this hobby and the quest is to learn/teach as much as possible about all of them.
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
entire network: 12,596 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,557 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 06:38 AM UTC
Tricky subject. I find that if you do mention inaccuracies in markings, that the folks who wouldn't know the difference will flock to the builder's defense and a lot of feeling may be hurt.

You can try commenting on the mechanics of the build (good clean build, nice weathering, nice paint scheme) and then as an aside mention that the markings on the vehicle aren't proper for that time period or battle. Follow up with a message relaying that only an expert or knowledgeable person on that unit would know though.
Halfyank
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Member Since: February 01, 2003
entire network: 5,221 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,983 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 06:54 AM UTC
I agree it's a tricky subject. I think I'm a bit of a coward, and don't like to offend people. I'd stick to the pros and cons of the build. I'm sure there will be plenty of others willing to speak about the historical issues.

On a somewhat related note somebody posted a story about his Grandfather's ship in WWII on a history forum I hang out at. They mentioned something that, while I'm sure this is how the Grandfather remembered it, could almost certainly never have happened. I will NOT contradict a veteren, even if it's second hand. They were there, I wasn't. I will keep quite about the incident and applaud them for their service.

WildCard
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: May 23, 2005
entire network: 945 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 06:57 AM UTC
Aw... C'mon! Sigh, We are live in such a politically correct world...

If someone ask me for advice, (which is rare haha!) I usually point out the best quality in their work first. Then I would point out the questionable area in his project and ask why does he did it this way. After LISTENING to him I would give my opinions about how I feel without the candy coating and explain why. I usually get good reactions and actually learn something for myself.

However, this is just a hobby. You should feel good and proud about what you build.

WC
RedLeg
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Member Since: April 30, 2005
entire network: 746 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:01 AM UTC
I would just mention it, you are all part of the same club like this one at the Big A, after all its constructive criticism not slating what work they have done.

redleg
3442
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Member Since: March 23, 2004
entire network: 2,412 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,030 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:02 AM UTC
sandwhich rule for feedback: good bad good.
Ex: wow thats a great model i love your weathering etc bla bla bla, but this tank never could have served in that battle because it wasnt produced until 20 years later, but that said i love you idea. by starting with a compliment, the person wont have to much of a hard tiem accepting hte critism. and wont block anything negative.

(this only works when a person wants feedback tho)

Frank
jazza
Visit this Community
Singapore / 新加坡
Member Since: August 03, 2005
entire network: 2,709 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:10 AM UTC
I would certainly be tactful about it. Start off with complimenting the model (if its deserved) and then gently move into the history conversation of the model. Hopefully he realises it mid way through the conversation.
smithery
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 30, 2004
entire network: 289 Posts
KitMaker Network: 146 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:15 AM UTC
Tough call. Ask yourself this......will pointing it out improve that person's skills as a builder?

If not, why bother?

It's also possible the person knows about the discrepancy, and simply doesn't care. Another possibility is that the kit instructions are incorrect.

Case in point. I built the 1:48 Tamiya P-47 Razorback earlier this year. Some will say that it is one of the finest kits out there. Did you know the instructions would have you build it to be historically inaccurate? If building it OOB, and using the kit decals for "Little Chief", the instructions would have you add the bazooka tubes. Problem is, the bazooka tubes were not cleared for use until August 1944, and the decals are for Klibbes' pre D-Day mount.

Prior to building it, I gave away one of the props that came with the kit, and wouldn't you know it, it was actually the prop I needed. Oh well, might as well use one of the other props that came in the box. Accuracy be damned.

Point is, some historical accuracies are within your control, while others (without extensive research) are not. At the end of the day, it's just plastic.
Erik67
Visit this Community
Buskerud, Norway
Member Since: July 31, 2005
entire network: 1,871 Posts
KitMaker Network: 376 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:38 AM UTC
Be honest and constructive in the critisisme. Honesty goes a long way.

Cheers
Erik
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Member Since: April 01, 2002
entire network: 4,287 Posts
KitMaker Network: 824 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:39 AM UTC
I do like the sandwhich approach. Easy enough to let them know the vehicle wasn't around until 19xx, but you applaud the effort they put into the build. It could even be made out to be a "What if" scenario. Personally I just let it fly. If they take offense, I'm a big boy and can take care of myself. I usually don't slam the person, just quietly and nicely inform them what I see. Thats it. Usually no problems come from it, but you never know. Again, I'd go with the sandwhich approach if you're unsure about how to approach the person. "Q"
FAUST
#130
Visit this Community
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Member Since: June 07, 2002
entire network: 8,797 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,186 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:52 AM UTC
Ola Guys

What I usually do is commenting them on a very good built and I will notice everything I can find they have done correct... so clean built, Good paintjob, Nice additions like stowage, Good weathering, Nice figures. Etc. etc.
When I spotted some mistakes as in Wrong gear for the time or wrong uniforms, Wrong color, wrong vehicle whatever. I usually say something along the lines. Try to do this or that a little bit different on your next built. They will be asking what should be changed. And then you can tell the guy the right stuff he had to do. Or let him check some reference. Color drawings usually works best I have found out with new guys. There are not many Armor modelers around in my area and most of them I know.. there are no clubs in my vacinity so all goes online through messenger or live at home. I happen to have a big library and usually when people want to built a specific vehicle on a specific timeframe they will usually contact me if I have pictures of drawings from that.

In the case if the guy in question is a starter I would say nothing at all. Let the guy or girl enjoy the hobby at first and don`t let them be bothered about historical accuracy at first. that will come eventually when they are building longer. In the club they will be confronted with guys who have libraries and in the end they want that too. And they will invest in books and or other reference. you can also learn them to search online and find their reference.

It always will be a touchy subject. When I started my only way to get feedback was the Hobbyshop. So there I went weekly from School (it was just across the street) with a model in progress or a figure in progress to show it there to the guys behind the counter or any other modeler that came in the shop. to ask if I did the right thing. I usually got a blunt reply like no that is not good. Not the correct uniforms, the weapon you are using can`t be used then as it was fabricated 2 years later etc. etc. Although I personally think it is the best method to learn from your mistakes quickly I`m also aware that not much modelers are weaponed to take that kind of criticism and will even in some cases abandon the hobby completely.

When I give feedback I always give it for the next model not for the one he showed me where he is proud off and where I commented on. Modeling is a learning process. and nobody started to do it perfect immediately

thathaway3
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Member Since: September 10, 2004
entire network: 1,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 265 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 09:36 AM UTC
Great advice and right on the money. Building military models does have two components. First and foremost are the mechanicals of the build itself. Is it well constructed and presented? Afterall this hobby is about doing the work ourselves and not buying a completed item to display.

But because in military modeling, there is a usually a general intent to depict something of a historical nature, inconsistencies with history (particularly when that history can be fairly easily documented) are something which can be viewed as a "flaw".

BUT having said that, I'd take into account the "context" with which the item is being viewed. If it is supposed to be some sort of competition, the inaccuracies are likely to be considered "fair game".

While my wife would probably disagree, if on the other hand I was viewing items as a visitor in somebody's home, as a guest, I'd try (I said I'd TRY!!!) to refrain from pointing out that sort of error unless asked specifically for that sort of criticism.

And BELIEVE me TRYING to avoid that sort of comment is NOT easy for me, as one who tries very hard to maintain historical accuracy. My late father was the same way and the apple didn't fall far from the tree.


You don't want to hear me when I'm watching TV and see all the "hollywood errors" in uniforms and equipment!!!!!!!!

Tom


ShermiesRule
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Member Since: December 11, 2003
entire network: 5,409 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 11:20 AM UTC
Perhaps you can ask a question...

Did they really use Sherman tanks in WW1? Let the builder do the research and come up with the answer. Or maybe he/she will say I don't care. Then you'll know how to proceed from there
 _GOTOTOP