Howdy everyone.Just a small question..how does everyone feel about buying kits that others have made?I saw a great deal on E-Bay that i just couldn't pass up..two light tanks,painted and weathered including postage for 20€..One tank i can use on my dio as it was looking a little empty .The other for my next project.The tanks looked too good to pass up,each tank unmade is around 17€.I am by no means lazy,i enjoy putting everything together and painting!Have i done something unholy ?Or is this something that isn't done?Don't me!

... But where are the fun in buying a finished kit...?

Cheers
Erik

I dont think anyone can criticise another person for buying ready made models and i certainly wont be one of them.

I just feel that they are incredibly overpriced. The one in my LHS is selling the Tamiya M1A2 OIF for close to $200. I suppose if you account for man hours, paints etc, it would be about half that but if i paid that kind of money for a ready made model, SWMBO will most certainly issue out a lady slappin. :-)

To me, the enjoyment comes in building the model from ground up and seeing the final product (good or bad). That in itself is priceless.

If its what you want to do .. why not? Doesn´t really matter what anybody else thinks.
It means with the tank already made, you can concentrate on figures and base to go along with it. Maybe even touch it up with your own stowage and weathering! Hopefully the quality you are expecting is as good in reality as it is in the E-bay images. Personally, I wouldn´t be interested in doing this. I would consider buying a finished model though, if it could be used for parts or re-modelled and the price was right.

Personally don't see the point. If you can build them, why buy what someone else has build. Just don't get it. I would rather build it myself. Also agree that Ebay is usually rediculously overpriced and most "Pro-Built" models on there look like crap anyways, if you ask me.

Build them yourself, improve your skills and be proud that you built it.

But hey, if you are looking for any custom built models, let me know. I'd be happy to make and sell you some.

I wonder whether Leonardo da Vinci or Van Gough bought any paintings.

Here's the rub...if these are built and painted by someone else "your" diorama and projects become less "yours" and minimally a collaboration. There's nothing wrong with buying any form of artwork/craftwork, etc. for your own pleasure and display as long as you don't pass it off as "your" work. Even if you fully repainted this, it would still only be "your" paintwork.

Purchase and sale of figures is quite common and most shows have an auction and/or raffle of a recognized painter's work. Ethically, however, these must be referred to as X Painter's work, much as an Picasso or Ansel Adams would be referred as those artists' work.

I occasionally build for others and $200 for a stock M1A2 is actually quite sheap.



The paints & the kit are a very small portion of the price. As with everything else, it's the labour that costs the money. I only make spare modelling money form my sales, but I still want a reasonable return on my time. I just finished a stock build of an MPC X-Wing for a customer and it took probably 30 hours to make & paint it (mostly becasue the basic kit is so ghastly). The kit was bought for me, so the $150 I charged worked out to abuot $5 per hour. Not much is it? Sure there is the fact that I like building models and that offsets some of it. But yuo are also building for someone else and to their taste. Normally I quote it out at abuot $10 an hour for a simple build, but in this case I underestimated the time needed to turn the sow's ear into an approximation of a silk purse. :-)




Oh, I agree. I would never pay for that myself, but on the other hand, I can do it myself. There are those who either can't build to the level they like (like my customer) or or can't build to the level of the model for sale. Either forms the basis for the desire to buy a built model.

Trying to make a modest return on your time, though is what makes a built model so "expensive". If you were to have a professional model maker (like the ones used for museums or architecture firms) make that same model, my paltry $10 per hour would have to go up to something like $40-50 per hour to pay for overhead & the like and my $150 model would end up being $1200 for the same relatively low level of accuracy or much, much more for a really detailed model.

I once knew a professional model shipmaker who, in the mid '70's, mind, was getting $10-$15K for a rigged ship or oil rig model that would take him 3-4 months of work. That was a LOT of money in those days, yet he still didn't live high on the hog because those contracts didn't come around too often. Just goes to show a lot of things go into making a selling price.

Good discussion,

Paul

I think that is nuts. Sorry, there just isn't that much work that goes into a OOB model. It is only a plastic model, not gold plated.




Guess I have a different mindset as to what I charge my customers. I can't justify the hourly rate. Also, I never have a fix on how long (in hours) a build will take. I generally double the kit price for an OOB build. Add about $20 for stowage and any extras, about $25 for a simple dirt/grass dio base, $5 per figure, etc., etc. For more work , more dio elements, and conversions, I strike a deal based on what I think it is worth for me to do it and how detailed it will be. How quickly the buyer needs it done also is a factor. Usually, a single vehicle build with some extras will be $75 to $100, including the cost of the kit. My customers are generally everyday people and Soldiers. They are not big time collectors and those are the prices I feel they are willing to pay. Price yourself too high, like your ship building friend, and you will not find many customers. I don't do it as a business and to support the family on the money from it. It is a hobby I love and I can make some extra money at it. All the better.

I guess what you´d pay is based on your means. I know that I wouldn´t buy today, cause I couldn´t afford to spend that type of money. But if I had an endless supply of money, I would buy models from builders who inspire me.

I keep hearing of stuff on Ebay all prepainted, how do you find this stuff? I'm very Ebay illiterate.

In the search field, enter what you are looking for. For example: "1/35 M1A1" or "1/35 Sherman" and it will list all that are for auction. If there is a built-up one, it will be there as well, provided the seller lists it by vehicle type.

Thanks Gino

I agree for the most part, that these "pro-built" models are usually horribly done. I've seen some painted 1/35 figures on ebay that were supposedly pro built that looked like a 6 year old child painted them. I think the only true professionally built kit I;ve ever seen on ebay in the past 3 years was a very nice Italeri RSO that was 90% Photoetch. Paint and weathering was spectacular, I couldnt figure out why this guy was willing to part with it. I think the auction closed at $75, whoever won it got it for a steal.

Thats the uniqueness of ebay i guess. On one hand, people will dig up anything to try to make a buck and sell it on ebay.......and on the other hand....there are people out there who will buy it. Go figure huh.

I too love this hobby too much to want to try to make a living out of it even if it was possible. The models i make are always based on my mood at the time and what i feel like building so i cant imagine forcing myself to build a model for someone else which i dont have the mood for.

From another perspective however, if i was an enthusiastic collector of models and didnt like building, seeing the work done by the likes of Vinnie, i would be more willing to pay top price for it due to the high quality of work.

well if you want more i wouldnt mind selling a few lol... wow, getting paid to model

Frank

IMHO I don't buy pre-built model but I dont think 200 or 300 for a good model is over priced. If you add the price of the kit plus man hour and material. It's rather cheap. I take it like this, a decent tank takes about 40~50 hours to build and this breaks down to 8~10 bucks an hour. That's like minium wage not to mention the paint, experience, resource, and thought of creating a project.

I don't sell my work because it's the extention of my creativity. Then again, I have no problem that someone who sell or buy. After all this is just only a hobby. A hobby should be fun and not to be judged.

WC

There is nothing wrong with buying models and using them in a diorama. In one way it's not that different to buying AM items, rather than scratchbuilding them. When AM items, such as PE and aluminium barrels etc, first became available the 'old guard' would no doubt have scoffed at modelers who used them, rather than scratch building themself. These days it seems that a model is not complete without a long list of AM parts, costing several times the original kit prize...
When I sell a model, I hope that the buyer buys it because he likes the model, and it depends if it's on a base or on it's own. I recently sold a Mercedes L3000, without a base or figures, and if the new owner wants to put it in a diorama, good luck to him. If he feels that my model will improve his diorama, then I feel happy enough about that. On the other hand if the model is part of a vignette or dio, I would hope that they don't ripp it apart, but if they do, that says more about them.
Like Gino, I sell models occasionaly, not for profit but to keep the cost of the hobby down. I'm not a great ' collector ' myself, and once I finish a model I tend to loose 'interest' a bit. I have a small display cabinet in which I keep the models I really like, and the rest is either stacked in a box, or collects dust on a shelf... I recoup the cost of the materials and add 'a little something' for myself.
And for the question of people passing anothers work of as their own, well it happens, but usually you can spot them a mile off. Thats a consequence you must consider when you sell a model.

Cheers
Henk

The other day I was at a model show. In the back they had a table where they were selling pre-made models. I think they were 3 for $10. I didn't see a single one that sold, though I wasn't there all day.

If it's something you want to buy, why not? There is only one time I would say it's totally wrong, and that is if you were passing them off as your own work.

Other than that if you want to buy them, go right ahead.

Were they of good quality though?

If i could get 3 models with the kind of quality that vinnie produces, it would be a steal! It would also however be the coldest day in hell i suspect. :-)

It's like buying artwork. If you like it, get! Especially if the model is no longer available and put together well, you can always repaint it!


Jeff

I don't think it's a big deal one way or the other. I see a lot of validity in buying built kits for spares. However, one of my pet-hates, is (commercial) pre-built and painted models. I also have little time for the (obsessive) collectors who pay for someone else to build and construct some fairly mediocre kits (in industrial quantities) - not those who commission a few pieces or a one-off...Jim

Me thinks Jim's had a heavy lunch... :-) :-) :-) :-)

Why call it a "manual implement for the use of inward soil excavation, single operator" if you can call it a spade. In capitals... :-) :-) :-)

Cheers
Henk

Henk, Was there someone you recognised in that reference? ...Jim :-) :-) :-)

I have bought a couple of "built" kits but only because they were cheap and for spare parts. They have been done by people that tried out the hobby but did not get hooked. Excellent source of hulls, suspesion etc. Never bought any of the "fancy" stuff although the wife wants me to put some of my kits on E-bay!