Hi guys,
The IPMS ArmoramaUK web site is taking shape but I need ideas for the type of forums we have. The layout reflects the same tried and tested format as the .com and .co.uk sites but it needs to be individual. Remembering that it is an IPMS Branch site, and the first of it's kind we need to be at the forefront of what is achievable. One of the original reasons for getting this off the ground was so that we have a place to meet at Telford. That's all very well but as an IPMS branch, we are not just a meeting place, we should, I believe, seek to encourage more members of the public and particularly the younger members of the public to have a go at this great hobby of ours. I speak from experience as, when I have been a member of the IPMS before, I didn't get out of it what I had joined for. Branch meetings were in pubs and the talk was about normal pub talk and not models, so I left. Actually I tried 3 times with the same result and had to learn myself. With the resources of this wonderful web based community, we have the ability to do something wonderful and that is to help in the development of a whole new generation of modellers.
What I would like to do then is to have forums that help achieve this aim. My initial thoughts are to have forums for novices, youngsters and of course branch meetings and the like. I also think that a forum for female modellers would be a good idea. Although there are very few I think they should be encouraged, I think we may be able to recruit the ladies of Armorama to help out here. I'm not sure how these forums would work, or even if they will, but I think we should try. One of the ways that I think they might work is that members have an indication of age and or modelling ability. This could be in a sig line or such and would help identify whom the youngsters and novices are, thus avoiding replies that may go over their heads. These are just thoughts and need expanding. To help in the fight for the next generation of modellers we also need to think about the content of features. If you agree with the youngster/novice approach then the feature content should reflect this and I believe will go furthest to achieving that aim. I'm talking about "back to basics", may be series of articles written by members from different genres and scales. Possible with a view to producing a booklet, in the future.

Thoughts and ideas please.

Mal

Mal,
good to see that things with the site are progressing apace, I should make Telford so it will be good to put faces to the names..Anyhoo, to the question in hand, I couldnt agree more that it is vital to encourage a new generation of modellers but also to ensure that existing young modellers stick with the hobby and can progress and develop their skills. Problem is its not an easy environment to create, I checked out the Junior forum on http://www.ww2modelmaker.com/ which seems to be stagnating, not a negative comment on either the contributers or the site staff but as you have identified there has to be positive effort to promote and expand the hobby and keeping kids interested and motivated is hard work at the best of times.
I very much like the idea of a series of articles to build up into booklet, what are the possibilities of producing the articles specifically to print out and build into a manual? A "Back to basics" approach is a good point, I cut my teeth at 6 years old on the old multi-coloured Matchbox kits, half a tube of glue per 1/72 Spitfire, decals all over the place..bliss, when now I "relax" by attempting to use PE and resin AM sets, supergluing myself to the furniture and expanding my vocabulary .. I feel that the pressure to create a "Great" model from the start is one kids dont need, they have to be happy and confident in just creating something from a box of bits, sure we then give the support and guidance for them to improve and develop, but we have to let them walk before they can run. I agree with the need for an indicator of age and ability, an adaptation of the ranks and awards/medals system used here possibly, if its going to visible, it has to be attractive and make them want to remain with the site in order to rise in rank or gain medals..
Possibly the inclusion of competitions and prizes might generate interest, prizes could be books, supplies, kits sourced from donations by the adult members or hobby shops, doesnt have to be the latest DML 3 in 1 release, just something to encourage younger modellers to use the site and to keep them building. Competitions could be as simple as quizzes or searches within the site all with the aim of motivating them to research their models and try new techniques, as they progress and become older then perhaps introduce build comps, photography, creating and submitting their own articles and kit reviews..
Well, good ideas or bad ideas, hopefully this will kickstart some other input,

Mal, from Dec.1st to Jan 11th I'm taking over an 11' display case at my local library and displaying anything I can get my hands on really. I should have an Armorama banner, but I 'spose IPMS should be mentioned also?

Vinnie

Hi Mal, I think the back to basics booklet idea is a good one for encouraging youngsters. Maybe something along the lines of your step by step builds, using basic kits such as the airfix spitfire, or sherman using only the basic paints and brushes are the way to go?

I bought a copy of "A Beginners Guide To Small-scale Military Vehicle Modeling" by Dave Cox [Diodave], a CD book, and gave it to my nephew with one of the kits featured. He did go on to build kits for quite a while. The beauty of this CD book is that if followed it does produce an impressive first attempt. Surely the best sort of encouragement for beginners.

I'm sure the members here would gladly do articles for such a project.

Martin,
Yes, I'm sure it will stagnate, if it is left to, so we need lots of ideas that can be applied to keep the youngsters interested. I'm hoping that with a drive on this area we can approach model manufacturers and or importers to donate kits. That may be for the future as we become established, but not beyond the relms of possibility. You are right about kids not needing the pressure to produce stunning models from the get go, there are some great new, pre-painted snap tight Star Wars models out there. I like the idea of articles and kit reviews by the youngsters.

Vinnie.
At the moment there is nothing that I can post to you, the only sign I have is one I had mad myself and it cost me £40. It's on hardboard and is 6' x 2', how wide is the disply case? I'm having a banner made for the Branch stand, which is coming from Canada. I also have a home made IPMS ArmoramaUK sign, which I did quickly for the Doncaster show. You will see in my sig line a prototype of the branch sign (a bit stretched at the mo) maybe if you can get that printed it would do?

Martin,
The CD book sounds like the way to go. I will be editing the site so I could, hopefully do it with that in mind and make a compilation onto CD. They could be handed out at shows? Yes I'm thinking that even duplicate articles by different modellers will show the different ways of doing stuff. In the first instance though the basics are what is required and I'm not sure that I'm capable but it will be fun to have a go.

SO get your articles together, maybe we could have a competition for the best back to basics stuff

Harry Harrison (Jetprovost) is a great artist and has agreed to do a monthly "Harricature", this will be of aircraft and are great fun.

Any thoughts about lady modellers? Or are you against the idea.

Any ideas how to entice the older potential modeller?

Thanks for you imput so far, keep thinking.

Mal

Mal,
Hmmm, duplicated articles?? How about if the contributers were given a "kit issue", identical kits to be built OTB, to a time limit (possibly with strictly limited amounts of scratchbuilding.. ) but the emphasis firmly on what can be acheived using the basic techniques, different decals, finishes, weathering etc without resorting to XYZ aftermarket items, of course the more advanced stuff can be covered and I will get back to that..
As for the female modellers out there, no way am I against the idea of their own forum, in fact I think it would be terrific support for the younger female modellers.. if there are any.. , give a great sense of belonging to something of their own, but, yeah, an all female forum would create a great community in its own right and a source of some healthy competition..cant be too PC, can we??
As for the older potential modellers, Ive seen plenty of posts in forums from people who are starting back into the hobby after breaks of many years or even getting into it from scratch after helping a young relative with a kit and I think that the same B.T.B.approach is still appropriate, with a view to introducing them to using aftermarket items, step-by-step guides in using PE sets, simple resin conversions, basic dioramas, digital photograpy techniques. All stuff which is out and about on most modelling sites but is often needlessly overcomplicated and in order to utilise fully, requires a degree of knowledge about modelling that for newbies is frankly unreasonable. Also with the older modellers you have greater scope to involve them in the competetive aspect of the hobby, more so than the youngsters and i feel that attracting young modellers to the site will of its own accord bring older pot. mods along whether parents or grandparents who will wish to be involved in the childs interests..or is that a spot of wishful thinking..

Right, call it quits for tonight, I shall put thinking cap on and see what happens


Martin

Martin,
The idea of duplicate articles is more because each of us will approach a model in a different way. With 2 or 3 of us doing similar articles it will show that there is more than one way to go about something. However this, in the first instance would probably be a waste of resources, but something to be thought about over time. Initially what we probably need is a series of BTB articles. I did actually make a start on something similar, some time back, but started to get bogged down.
Older modellers coming back to the hobby won't be so much of a problem, as they will at least have an insite. New older modellers may be a different story, if the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" rings true. It might with some but not with others, it really depends on what they want to achieve.
I think that digital photography techniques will be important for everyone to get a good handle on.Being a web based branch it's the main way of interacting.
Thanks for your time Martin, some good thinking there


James,
I will be talking to the Lady members of Armorama, but we are talking about the new site, IPMS ArmoramaUK. I don't think that we have any lady members of Armorama who are IPMS members, yet. Larisa may join us and I will be asking her for her advice. The forum, if set up will be for them. I'm looking for ideas to encourage females to take up modelling, having a forum for them would give us the oppertunity to say "we have a forum for lady modellers". Untill the membership picks up I thought that maybe our Armorama ladies would look in.
Are you willing to do the filming James? I find it a bit limiting just to get decent pictures. I am either taking pics after work or on a weekend. Lighting is a problem, for me, film making would be nigh on impossible. Is there anyone out there that can do this? It's a great idea, but it may be simpler, in the first intance, to do a stills pics with narrative CD? The DVD can come later, either of these would be great to hand out at shows. Thanks for your input James

Mal

James I think it is a great idea to produce a DVD, but I think we should get some articles together first, which can be copied onto a CD straight off the site. This could then be handed out at shows. I'm thinking Telford here, but that might be pushing it, unless we can really get our act together. The DVD idea shouldn't be forgotten though, but I think that a proper movie digi cam is the way to do this. 20-30 second clips probably aren't long enough and I would imagine that a lot of thought needs to go into making a DVD build of a model.
Mal

Hyall

Glad we finaly met at Doncaster Mal and to see that ideas are coming thick and fast.

The IPMS Armorama logo looks cool, congrats on the layout for that.

One thing I have noticed from the postings, is the fixation, for want of a better word, with the 'younger' modeller. Overall, IPMS (UK) has very few u/18 members and although we do encourage modellers from this end of the age spectrum, they tend to be family members with dad being the full member. It's perhaps indicative of our society in general, that our historical past tends to be glossed over or mis-represented in our school system today. The education standard does not bode well for the future.

Having said all that, the main target now seems to be the return of the modeller, He or she is thirty something, kids old enough to do their own thing and has disposable income and leasure time. This modeller is thinking of taking up the hobby after a lot of years in the wilderness.

If you look at the average kit price of about £20 today, it compares with the PC / PS2 / Xbox game price. As kits do not DO anything, they have limited appeal for youngsters. I started modelling after watching my old man build a couple of kits and was lucky enough to be encouraged by him and that he has the same interest in history as I have. If we can encourage the 'Returner' type modeller and retain them, we would be onto a winner.

I like the idea of a 'How to do it' series. Paul Lloyd did just such a thing in IPMS magazine a few years ago. I will make some enquiries and see if I can get it resurected for inclusion on here or some other media.

If we start a 'Straight from the box' build series, lets look at something of recent manufacture. I would hate to see the ancient Airfix Defiant or Sherman used. They haven't changed in 40 odd years. It would be good to show how modelling has progressed .

IAN

Hiya Mal

As I mentioned elsewhere nice to have met up in Donnie and seen some lovely birds on display. Have you thought of marketting tins of 1940s brylcream in 1:48 scale to go with RAF kits.

As per ideas for the forums etc, I assume there will be the standard Armorama stuff plus our own section for Forums plus articles or whatever. For the articles how about basic skills as mentioned elsewhere including what may be considered the totally obvious for all ages, say how to remove parts from sprues, using different adhesives, (Is it allowable to use cement from a tube!) I would think the forums need to be unique to AUK and not a rehash of those in the main site. E.g. Is it appropriate to have a UK/Commonwealth forum, when that could be covered in Allied Forums already up and running?

We could have a forum on where to get stuff from overseas, I have done this occassionally, but there does seem to be a lot of good tools/kits/materials which are harder to access, maybe pooling resources to get bulk goods in from overseas.

Another Forum/section on meeting other AUK members.

How about a campaign on getting a cheap new Centurion/Bedford/Queens Own Highlander Regiment/(insert your own favourite) kit produced for the mass market.

As far as encouraging new younger modellers, I would think the Web-site is used by those already interested so would have to maybe start a campaign, spring-boarded from the web-site. Forming a working group/s to go to schools, youth clubs etc to "spread the word" (however, having worked in both schools and youth clubs I'd be wary of that approach). I think Games Workshop are the experts in that field so far. Get them in on it.

Enough of my ramblings.

Good Day Chaps/esses

Ross

Ian,
Thanks, I hadn't thought of it like that but there is no reason why we can't have a go at recruiting younger modellers. I for one am prepared to give it a go, you never know it might work in reverse. Junior gets interested and dad takes up the hobby. Or junior gets interested and ditches PS-2. probably unlikely but if we keep thinking that kids of today aren't interested can we blame them for not being. Surely it is up to the IPMS as the premier modelling club to encourage youngsters, not decide they are not interested. We have 12 and 13 year olds as members of Armorama, they want to learn and they aren't family members of the IPMS.
I agree that we don't want old kits featured in the BTB build articles, unless the likes of Airfix will sponsor us. If we do a series of BTB articles for the web site, then burn them onto a CD, this can be handed out to youngsters at shows. If we can hand out the featured kit as well even better. If we have BTB articles in several genre, Aircraft, Armour, Ships, Sci-Fi even better. Isn't Airfix a sponsor of Scale Modelworld?

Ross,


LOL I assume that is a dig at my trendy haircut :-)

Yes the BTB articles would include removing parts from sprues and using glues, including tube glue. Yes the forums need to be unique, the fledgling site has the Armorama look and all the links to the main site forums and features. I am actually using it to enter Armorama At the moment it is devoid of the nitty gritty,as Jim is waiting for me to get back to him with what is required, hence this thread. You have some very good ideas there mate. The idea about meeting members is good. I hope to get thebranch stand around more shows.
The Games workshop thing might be worth looking into. I have a friend who owns a small model shop in Worksop and several youngsters are regulars (buy his wargaming stuff), I'll try a poster campaign there and see if owt comes of it.

Mal

Hi Mal...........Love the "banner"...........there is a good chance to "recruit" juniors at Telford........My club are down to supply help on the junior build table over two days .......got any "flyers" in mind-----most clubs have an age restriction on young model maker s..(12years and up to16 years) so the under 12s may be happy to "sign-up" for IPMS "BIG A"
The "ladies" are out there ......we have a few on here ---------need to show off their work more ,to get interest???
Keep going ----on right track from what I read
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)

Ross,


LOL I assume that is a dig at my trendy haircut :-)

Mal [/quote]

T'was not a comment on your own fine hair, more of a play on the idea of Bryl-Cream Boys. ha ha (not)

Ross

Steve,
Hadn't thought about age restrictions but 5 years and up are not beyond getting interested, Harry's (Jetprovost) son is 5 and harry got him a wonderful pre-painted snap fit Star Wars model. I would think we can actually cater for anyone that young but I was thinking probably 8 up, (I'm talking about getting them interested at 8, not getting them to sign up for Armorama or the IPMS, I think about 12 is the youngest we could "put up" with [not a dig at you Philip, if your reading this]). My brothers and I were modelling around then using Airfix kits and we had a wonderful time. I see no reason why, if given the opportunity, youngsters of today wouldn't get the same thrill out of building something for themselves. The difference is the Internet, make it youngster friendly and we make a start. I bet most IPMS branches meet in a pub, that is not conducive to having youngsters join. I'm not saying branches should not meet in pubs, but if a majority do then how do you encourage youngsters to A. Take up modelling and B. join the IPMS. I take Ian’s point that the youngsters in the IPMS are family members, but what is being done to recruit the next generation of modellers? In this digital age it is easy to take pictures of models. For the Internet it is almost a necessity to be able to take pictures of your models, to be able to show them. This is something else for youngsters to get a handle on and could be the thing that drags them away from their play station
So a digital photograph forum would be good?
Ross,
It's OK mate I have a sense of humour....................oops........................where'd it go

Mal

FYI we now own www.armourama.co.uk as well. This may cause a bit less confusion for the spelling sticklers.

It will probably just forward the user to the armorama.co.uk site, but I am open to actually switching it the other way around if you guys think that would be better.

Mal...like your new signature banner?

Cheers,
Jim

I am a youngster (well i am 1 so i do not think of myself that way) and i think the idea of a dvd is excellent. A powerpoint presentation could also work. I have found the internet an amaxzing resource. I am also now begining to expand my modelling horizions be venturing into the realms of AFVs and figures. However one major problem is that young modellers often do not have the finances to furfil thier skills to the maximum. I have a friend who is a modeller and he mostly builds 1/72 modern warplanes, but he does not have an airbrush. He seems to be dooing quite well with a normal brush but i think that if he had an airbrush he would be very good. But an AB is an expensive item (well the good ones at least) plus you will need a compessor and diffrent nozzles ect... I believe that to start someone off on modelling they should start off on simple airplanes (1/72 spitfire ) and then they should try some bigger airplanes or 1/35 figures and tanks and then they can take the path they want, and you give them helpful tips and constructive along the waqy. This way thier confidence and skill will build up and they can decide what branch of modelling they want to take.
About the forums, i think it is a good idea to have diffrent forums for begenners and females. There should obvously be the normal ones like Airplanes, AFVs, Ships, Figs, Dios ect... I think a good review section would be good aswell.

cheers

Philip

Greetings all.

I thought I'd better memntion the younger end of the age spectrum, simply because this is where, with the make and take at Scale Modelworld and events around the country. IPMS has concentrated their efforts.

For info, the only sponsors of Scale Modelworld are The Aviation Hobby Shop and Midland Counties Books.

I'll e-mail JT about the how to features later today.

IAN

Yes Jim, cooooool
Personally I like Armorama as is, mainly because without the "U" it lends itself rather neatly to having additions, sight, flag, IPMS logo, in place of the "O". It will also create a talking point when the branch stand is around the UK, as some are bound to point out the "spelling" error, or ask why it is spelled the American way. It is, afterall the way it was created, but it is cool that the "correct" spelling is owned as well

Philip,
Thanks for dropping in on this as it is the views of the younger modeller which we must listen to. I think your mate is actually on the right track. The "Back to Basics" articles that I am planning will actually be based around doing just that., building, painting and decalling using nothing more than what is in the box, a few tools and paints. I wish that, when I came back to the hobby, I had started out on this route. I think I would have actually arrived where I am now much quicker. I think it is wrong to make this out to be an expensive hobby for youngsters, they just need to be guided. Airfix 1/72 scale aircraft from the 60's might not be the best around anymore but they are relatively cheap and I don't think that youngsters care about whether the spinner is right or not. It gets slapped together, painted and hung off the ceiling inside a day. That's what my brothers and I did and I bet any youngsters that have a go today will do much the same. I want to show them that, with a little patience and knowledge a much better result, with a lot more satisfaction, is the result. Then they are much more likely to take an interest in this hobby and return in the future when the inevitable happens (girls).
Philip I think you must be the exception to the rule, but. I think you will agree, that there is a lot to learn and enthusiasm needs to be tempered with a little knowledge, to get a better result. You found Armorama and I hope you are have and still are finding help (you do seem to be getting seduced by the dark side)
Whatever is done must not take the fun out of it.

There is an interesting editirial in SAMI thid month, basically saying there are no female modellers. I think I should send an email, or maybe we all should

Ian,
Yep, sorry I checked out the IPMS web site and realised that Airfix weren't a sponsor, surprisingly.

Mal

When you say the dark side do you mean the muddy side? :-)

cheeers

Philip

Yes Philip, modelling "targets" is dicing with the forces of the dark side, remember you can be easily seduced by the dark side.
Seriusly though it is good to explore all of the modelling genre. I started out (when I returned to modelling) building AFVs, then started painting figures as well, so I could populate my vehicles. I realised though that my passion lay on the side of good ie wingy things.
Philip, are you going to make it to Telford? It would be great to meet you there
Mal

I may, i am going to a new school in september so i will probabbly be quite busy getting settled in there, but i may be able to come, it depends really.

cheers

Philip

Hi Mal,
Just had a ..."thunk"......members going to Telford will require their passes / tickets..for Friday ....to set up...and for the SAT /SUN..........to get in before 10am and un-loading car passes
You have this in mind I hope .........
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)

Yes mate it is all, hopefully in hand, although I wasn't aware of the unloading car passes?
Thanks for thinking to let me know
Philip, maybe your new school would like to organise a trip :-) ?
Mal