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Edisode III - Best since Empire!
sniper
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 02:59 AM UTC
Saw the new Star Wars at midnight showing (no, I didn't wait a month in line - only an hour) and let me tell you, Lucas finally got it right!

This is a good movie. For me, this is the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back and it completely blows Episodes I and II away. I don't know why such a good movie took so long, but its worth the wait.

The movie is not perfect but there is very little of the cute kiddie stuff that ruined I and II (we do see Jar Jar at a funeral but he doesn't say a word!) and the action is great.

I think die hard Star Wars fans will be very happy and athe average movie goer will be wowed by the spectacle. It does a great job of explaining episodes IV through VI and when you watch the original Star Wars that story will never be the same again.

So I'm happy that the last Star Wars was decent. Some classic Lucas bad dialogue but also some of the Lucas magic has come back to save the day!

Check it out!

Steve

PS - I even managed to spell episode wrong in the title. Can someone change this?
sniper
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 01:07 PM UTC
So has anyone seen this yet? Get to the theater now!

Seriously, I'm even planning on seeing it again. The theater I was at is showing it on two screens and one is a digital projector so I have to catch that one!

Steve
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 01:38 PM UTC
I'm waiting till monday. That way the kids have already seen it and are back in school.
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 07:34 PM UTC
I'm off to see it tonight at insistance of Number 1 Son...
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:20 AM UTC
All I can say is WOW. Kevin(jackhammer81) and i saw it yesterday and it was awesome. I think Lucas did an excellent job on this one. The special effects are great and the story line really seems to tie everything together. . In my opinion this is the best one since Return of the Jedi.
Steve, i agree with you..everyone needs to see it..even if your not a Star Wars fan...its worth checking out...
Mary (++)

P.S. I love Yoda...hehe
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 02:23 AM UTC
Okay,

How many of you guys dressed up and waited in line???

Shaun
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 03:44 AM UTC
Ooooooh! Ooooooh! Ooooooh! Me! Me! I did! NOT I am still numb from the movie - satisfaction has a way of doing that to me. :-)
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 05:57 AM UTC
I saw it late last night - and loved it. Reading the novel beforehand made it even better for me because I understood a lot of the character interactions and subtle plot twists that the movie couldn't take the time to flesh out completely for the audience.

I'd have to see it one more time before ranking it against the others - for sure - but it was excellent and finally a movie for the die-hard Star Wars Fans.

Gunnie
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 07:02 AM UTC
I was it yesterday. Best since the old trilogy. Perhaps a little better than episode IV.

I wasn't even born when the original trilogy hit the screens hit the screens for the first time, but the classic trilogy is the best and most memorable movie experience from my childhood.
When I left the theater after the movie, I felt both happy and sad at the same time. Now it's over then, no more star wars movies. Perhaps it's the best. I couldn't stand George Lucas making his CGI-movies from the Thrawn and new jedi order trilogies.

If I had the choice, I would prefer seeing this new movie made with REAL scenery and props, not computer-generated images. One finnish magazine had a review of Episode 3 and they said something like this "these new movies are made with computers, with ones and zeros. Mostly zeros". I think those few scenes from inside the blockade runner ship were more "star wars" than anything from the new trilogy. The reason for this? They actually made real scenery for those scenes, as the ship is the same in which Princess Leia escapes the empire in the beginning of episode IV. These CGI-scenes look so plastic.

Something that really bugged me was Amidala's death. She just "loses her will to live". In Return Of The Jedi, Luke asks Leia if she remembers their mother. Leia says that their mother was often somehow sad. Now how does Leia remember Amidala being OFTEN sad if she dies immediately after childbirth?! Bad job, George Lucas! (of course Amidala would have been sad if she had her husband turned to the dark side and betray the republic!)
How can't he make movies that link together? I think it would have been a better way to make the ending if Amidala would have lived sometime with his children in some sort of a hideout and then handed the children for adoption as the risk of exposion had been too great.
What do you think of this?

But anyway, a great way to end the otherwise disappointingly mediocre trilogy. At least the grand finale is acceptably good. Sadly, Darth Vader's appearence was too brief. At least we had a glimpse of the greatest baddie in motion picture history!
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 07:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Something that really bugged me was Amidala's death. She just "loses her will to live". In Return Of The Jedi, Luke asks Leia if she remembers their mother. Leia says that their mother was often somehow sad. Now how does Leia remember Amidala being OFTEN sad if she dies immediately after childbirth?! Bad job, George Lucas! (of course Amidala would have been sad if she had her husband turned to the dark side and betray the republic!)
How can't he make movies that link together? I think it would have been a better way to make the ending if Amidala would have lived sometime with his children in some sort of a hideout and then handed the children for adoption as the risk of exposion had been too great.
What do you think of this?



Two thoughts; one, Lucas completely botched it and forgot that line. Perhaps when LucasFilm re-releases the set of movies (again) that line will be edited out. Two, perhaps it was intentional. Bail Organa and his wife had been trying to have children for sometime, unsucessfully. The novel cites this better than the screenplay. He jumped at the chance to raise Leia Skywalker - as they had always wanted a little girl. Organa's wife had been sad for a long time. Perhaps the memory Leia recalls isn't really her birth mother at all - she was deceived like everyone else to protect the twins. Perhaps shortly after the Organa's adopted Leia, events got bad and Bail Organa's wife dies.

Another twist - we didn't see the ultimate end of Master Mace Windu. Perhaps it is another loophole Lucas left himself in case he changes his mind to do another trilogy.

One more twist - the novel didn't touch on this in Chapter Twelve: Not From A Jedi as well as the screenplay did - but Darth Plagueis the Wise was Darth Sidious/Palpatine's master. Darth Plagueis had learned to turn his Force Sight so deep into himself that he found a way to influence the midi-chlorians themselves - not only to prevent death, but also to create life. Palpatine/Darth Sidious relates this story to entice Anakin Skywalker - but also tells him the truth - that Darth Plagueis' Apprentice was told the secret to safeguard the power and his Apprentice turned and killed him in his sleep. On screen, Palpatine/Darth Sidious tells Anakin that he indeed killed his master after learning the secret.

Going past the enticement to get Anakin to turn to the Dark Side in order to use this power to safe Padme - consider a deeper meaning...

Perhaps Darth Sidious - the most cunning and dangerous Sith Lord of them all - is Anakin Skywalkers' father. Perhaps Darth Sidious used this ability learned from his master to influence midi-chlorians in Anakin's mother to create life - Anakin. Perhaps Darth Sidious knew that the prophesy was true and a midi-chlorian produced being would be the ultimate force-wielder in the Galaxy - one that he could bend to his will.

Fun to think about huh...

Gunnie
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 08:27 AM UTC
Jim,
I agree with the 1st theory about Leia's thoughts about her "mother" I believe those are in reference soley to Bail Organa's wife. In ROTJ Luke said he had no memories of his mother because he knew that he was an orphan "so to speak." Leia referred to a memory of whom she perceived was her real mother until Luke showed her otherwise.

I think Mace Windu is dead.

I also agree with your Darth Plagueis /Sideous relationship except that I believe Plagueis created Anakin soley for his own personal use and that Sideous killed Plagueis so that he would not be "snuffed out" like Darth Tyrannus was by Anakin & like Darth Vader almost was by Luke - both instances were by design courtesy of Sideous.

on 2nd thought I'm not so sure about Plagueis/ Sideous - maybe Sideous created Anakin - I believe Sideous to be very, very, old - like Yoda & during his duel with Mace Windu - his age & wickedness became revealed (pernamently) it obviously proved to be too much to fight Mace Windu and keep up his gentlemanly appearances.
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 09:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Fun to think about huh...



Now you are a TRUE Star Wars fan!

I listened to the abridged audio version of the book and you are correct when you say it enhances the enjoyment of the film.

And no, I did not dress up in line! But a lot of people did and it really was fun. Mostly high school age kids. Lots of lightsaber battles, some Princess Leia hair do's, and a celebratory atmosphere.

I'm really glad I saw the midnight showing as it brought back good memories from seeing the originals and waiting so long in line for Empire and Return.

I was thinking today that these films have been made over the past 6 years and many of the people in line, 15 or 16 years old now, were little kids when Episode I came out. So it's kind of like a big cycle, and a bit sad to think this is the end of a 30 year circle.

I have to rank the films this way; Original Star Wars, Empire, the new Revenge, Return (sorry, too cute for me with the Ewoks), Clones, then Menace.

For me, Clones and Menace are not even in the same ranks with the others. Revenge and Return are very close - for nostalgia Return wins, for pure enjoyment Revenge is a tiny bit better.

Steve

PS - Only a couple things that bother me as far as continuity.

1) Why did Obi Wan get so old between episodes III and IV? I think only 20 or so years pass and aren't Jedi long-lived?

2) Also, how can he not remember C3PO and R2D2? Remember, "I don't reacall owning a droid" from Tatooine? Maybe he didn't own them, but he sure couldn't forget them!

3) At some point in the original trilogy, Kenobi tells Luke that he thought he could train Anakin as well as Yoda but he couldn't and this is what helped to turn him to the dark side. Well there is never any conflict in the new trilogy about who is to teach Anakin. There is nothing Obi Wan 'screws-up' that makes Anakin go bad. In fact the counsel decides Obi Wan should teach Anakin - Yoda included. (Boy those Jedi make some bad decisions along the way!)
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text


1) Why did Obi Wan get so old between episodes III and IV? I think only 20 or so years pass and aren't Jedi long-lived?

2) Also, how can he not remember C3PO and R2D2? Remember, "I don't reacall owning a droid" from Tatooine? Maybe he didn't own them, but he sure couldn't forget them!

3) At some point in the original trilogy, Kenobi tells Luke that he thought he could train Anakin as well as Yoda but he couldn't and this is what helped to turn him to the dark side. Well there is never any conflict in the new trilogy about who is to teach Anakin. There is nothing Obi Wan 'screws-up' that makes Anakin go bad. In fact the counsel decides Obi Wan should teach Anakin - Yoda included. (Boy those Jedi make some bad decisions along the way!)



I'll take a stab...

1) Perhaps the training Yoda and Obi-Wan underwent with Qui-Gon after the end of the Clone Wars took a toll on them both physically. The Dark Forces sure ate up Palpatine/Darth Sidious when he had to exert himself to ward off Mace Windu in their lightsaber battle. Yoda in particular seems to exhibit a certain frailty when not calling upon the Force to aid his particular style of lightsaber combat. I wonder how often these two had to call upon the Force to hide themselves in the 19 some odd years between EP: III and EP: IV.

At the time of the Battle of Yavin (SW: IV) Obi-Wan was 57 years old. He specialized in Jedi Arts of Speed, Healing and Telekensis - perhaps that these abilities also sapped him physically. To take down Anakin in that battle on Mustafar the way he did was remarkable - as most lauded Anakin the superior in lightsaber technique. As the battle ensued, just like when he bested General Grevious, Obi-Wan appeared to get both calmer and stronger, with the end coming quickly after Obi-Wan appeared to lose his calm and got mad. I'm beginning to think calling upon the Force exacts a payment in return...

2) That's an ugly question! :-) Did Qui-Gon's teachings on how to transcend Death from Llife into the Living Force cause Obi-Wan to forget many of the old attachments he clung to? Yoda was sure big on that concept - he didn't appear to remember R2-D2 either when Luke landed on Dagobah. I'd like to imagine that the very memory of their Clone Wars attachments would prove lethal as they'd aid Darth Vader's relentless pursuit and extermination of the remaining Jedi Order. Maybe they made a pact to "unlearn what they had learned" until the day came when they would reunite.

3) I believe after Qui-Gon's death at the hands of Darth Maul, Yoda did not want Anakin to be trained in the Jedi Arts. Obi-Wan made an impassioned plea, and I think Yoda initially felt that if Anakin was to be trained - then he (Yoda) would have to do it. Of course, we all know that Obi-Wan took Anakin as his Padawan ultimately - just don't know why Yoda went ahead with the decision. Perhaps he took advice from Mace Windu, with Windu's ability to discern shatterpoints. Yoda was a much more interesting character in this trilogy than in the first. His approach often was counter to Mace Windu's - but both worked in concert towards a common end. Mace Windu is a real interesting character...

Again - having fun thinking 'bout Star Wars...

Gunnie
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:36 PM UTC
Well, Obi-Wan was not lying when he said he couldn't ever remember owning a droid...he never owned them. R2 was Anikin's droid (Ben used a red topped R4 droid) and Anikin built 3PO himself. That kind of adds to the scene in Empire when Chewbacca goes nuts in the carbon freezing chamber and Boba Fett goes to shoot him and Vader stops him. Mabye it was because of 3PO strapped to his back. As far as Obi-Wan and Yoda not remembering the droids...ACTING! (or lying, depending on your point of view)

:-)
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Two thoughts; one, Lucas completely botched it and forgot that line. Perhaps when LucasFilm re-releases the set of movies (again) that line will be edited out. Two, perhaps it was intentional. Bail Organa and his wife had been trying to have children for sometime, unsucessfully. The novel cites this better than the screenplay. He jumped at the chance to raise Leia Skywalker - as they had always wanted a little girl. Organa's wife had been sad for a long time. Perhaps the memory Leia recalls isn't really her birth mother at all - she was deceived like everyone else to protect the twins. Perhaps shortly after the Organa's adopted Leia, events got bad and Bail Organa's wife dies.

Another twist - we didn't see the ultimate end of Master Mace Windu. Perhaps it is another loophole Lucas left himself in case he changes his mind to do another trilogy.

One more twist - the novel didn't touch on this in Chapter Twelve: Not From A Jedi as well as the screenplay did - but Darth Plagueis the Wise was Darth Sidious/Palpatine's master. Darth Plagueis had learned to turn his Force Sight so deep into himself that he found a way to influence the midi-chlorians themselves - not only to prevent death, but also to create life. Palpatine/Darth Sidious relates this story to entice Anakin Skywalker - but also tells him the truth - that Darth Plagueis' Apprentice was told the secret to safeguard the power and his Apprentice turned and killed him in his sleep. On screen, Palpatine/Darth Sidious tells Anakin that he indeed killed his master after learning the secret.

Going past the enticement to get Anakin to turn to the Dark Side in order to use this power to safe Padme - consider a deeper meaning...

Perhaps Darth Sidious - the most cunning and dangerous Sith Lord of them all - is Anakin Skywalkers' father. Perhaps Darth Sidious used this ability learned from his master to influence midi-chlorians in Anakin's mother to create life - Anakin. Perhaps Darth Sidious knew that the prophesy was true and a midi-chlorian produced being would be the ultimate force-wielder in the Galaxy - one that he could bend to his will.



That's reasonable explanation. But having Anakin created by a sith lord is really clever! That really fits to the prophecy-thing. When jedi masters think that maybe they misunderstood the whole prophecy. That it didn't promise a chosen one for the light side, but for the sith.

Speaking of Lucas tampering with the original films even more is just scary! I think I should get the dvd boxed set before Lucas decides that it's not he's vision after all and pulls it out of stores, and re-makes the whole trilogy! :-)

One other thing that really surpised me, came up on a Finnish forum. One die-hard fan told me that it's actually Palpatine who's Darth Sidious!
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Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

maybe Sideous created Anakin



He didn't know how. That was the point of him saying "we can learn it together." If anyone but the midichlorians themselves created Anakin, it was plageouis.

And Palpatine is Sidious, they say so several times in this movie.
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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 04:39 AM UTC
Well, I think Palpetine was telling Anikin that HE was the apprentice who had learned his master's secrets about manipulating midichlorians and killed him in his sleep. Just watch his face and listen to his voice change while he tells the story. Then think back to the first movie and how Anikin's mother has no clue as to who the father is. Palpetine all but admitted to being Anikin's father. Of course he could have been feeding the boy a line of crap to turn him to the dark side, a painfully easy thing todo apparently...want some candy little boy?

:-)
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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 08:47 AM UTC
Well - one thing for certain is that Palpatine/Darth Sidious is the best of the best when it comes to deception and misleading his foes and allies. He sure duped Count Dooku/Darth Tyrannus in the novel. The movie regrettably glossed this over in the editing process and the explanation for his look of surprise before Anakin lopped off his head is lost.

Darth Sidious also learned the art of transferring his soul/spirit from clone to clone to extend his life as the Dark Forces ate away his life energies. I think when he told Anakin "we'll learn together" - he was referring to something greater than just the power to prevent death/invoke life and he needed Anakin's energies to add to his own. In the Expanded Universe novels, it seems many of the Class A Dark Lords all knew something of extending their lives and souls/spirits for incredibly long periods of time.

Gunnie
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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 09:07 AM UTC
Hey, wouldn't it have been nice to see the Millenium Falcon in a brief cameo in the last film? Maybe being built or something?

Just a way to tie that into the saga.

I'm sure its creation is described in some book, but it would have been fun anyway.

Steve
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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 11:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hey, wouldn't it have been nice to see the Millenium Falcon in a brief cameo in the last film? Maybe being built or something?

Steve



i suggest you pay more attention my young padawan... the millennium falcon is in episode 3 !!!! but only for about 2 seconds !

when obi-wan and anakin return from the opening battle in space and land at the space port youalso get too see a rather new looking falcon landing there also... it's in the bottom right of the screen !

the reason for this is that lucas had planned for a very young han solo being in the film as a boy working at the space port but in the end it was deleted

hope this helps



Ahhh - sharp eyes Jedi Master!

I was hoping to see Han in the movie too, perhaps still in his Imperial Uniform - but then I realized that he would have been really young...

At the time of SW: Episode III, Han would have been either four or five years old at the most. I think Han is older than the novels/references cite by a few years. He doesn't know his parents - and from a very young age he had been taken into "slavery" by the felon Garris Shrike when he found Han lost and wandering alone on Corellia. Shrike kept a lot of children to aid him in thievery onboard his freighter Trader's Luck. Trader's Luck orbited Corellia, but also visited many worlds - could have visited Coruscant at the time of Episode III. Han finally escaped from Garris Shrike when he was 19.

Han enlisted in Imperial Navy at age 19 - after a relationship soured. He spent four years at the Imperial Academy on Cardia. And then spent 8 months in Imperial Service before rescuing a Wookie Slave who was being mistreated by a superior Imperial Officer.

Han was drummed out of the Imperial Navy (TIE Fighter Pilot) five years before the Battle of Yavin - as result of refusing to kill and saving the life of the Wookie Chewbacca. So, Han would have been around the age of five at the time of Episode III - and in captivity on the Trader's Luck.

The Trader's Luck vessel type and class isn't mentioned in the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels - so it is fun to imagine her being the same type of Corellian Freighter - and maybe even a partial explanation for Han's attachment to the Millenium Falcon.

Perhaps Lucas did shoot the scene (or may in the future) and it will appear in a future "Director's Cut" edition of this movie.

I was looking for other things in the background of the movie and trying not to miss the action. Did anyone see the "ET" Senators in the chambers or at the Opera? I didn't in this movie - but could have missed them. I thought that was cool when they appeared in the prior movie,,,

Gunnie
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Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 04:00 AM UTC
I agree with you Phantom. An extra 5 minutes added to the movie might have been a big help with some of these things. I think my favorite part of the movie was the very end and how it tied into part IV. Could this be a future TV show?

Now that there was finally a good movie I'm really bummed and kinda sad. I and II wasted so much time compared to Episode III - so much worthless cute stuff.

You guys that spotted the falcon - you must have good eyes because with all that was going on I tried to focus on the actors. Way too much to take in all at once!

Steve

PS - I think the destruction of the Jedi was done very well.
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Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 05:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think my favorite part of the movie was the very end and how it tied into part IV. Could this be a future TV show?


Steve, ask and you shall receive. In the latest issue of Entertainment weekly magazine, Lucas said he is working on a "live-action series that proceeds out of Sith focusing on peripheral characters".
I too missed the Falcon, but now that will be one of the things to look for when I go back and see it again.

Cheers,
Mike