Nah, I don't want to get anyone mad. The whole situation is too messed up to comment. I would like to see some more WWII historical discussion from the European theatre, if you can come up with something, DJ.
Nic
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Declaration of War
Folgore
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 09:09 AM UTC
REMEARMR
Member Since: August 17, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 09:25 AM UTC
[quote]
I can tell you that there was no declaration of war for the Falklands War, but that doesn't help much.
[/quote
This is correct, we considered this to be a conflict as we did with the Gulf. I'm sure that if any action is taken against Iraq that we will be there as well. It seems to me that the same few countries are taking on the role of policing the world with little or no thanks. And even fewer of these countries are among the first to step up and take on the most difficult task of any action like this which is the intial stage of insertion, stabilization and establishing order.
We will be there when it happens, I can't speak for all my European colleagues who seem to have had their spine removed in a surgical procedure ( I won't say for not wanting to offend but check your history, it's the same as always).Besides we like it when you come to play as well as your guys are alot better looked after than we are!
Robbo
I can tell you that there was no declaration of war for the Falklands War, but that doesn't help much.
[/quote
This is correct, we considered this to be a conflict as we did with the Gulf. I'm sure that if any action is taken against Iraq that we will be there as well. It seems to me that the same few countries are taking on the role of policing the world with little or no thanks. And even fewer of these countries are among the first to step up and take on the most difficult task of any action like this which is the intial stage of insertion, stabilization and establishing order.
We will be there when it happens, I can't speak for all my European colleagues who seem to have had their spine removed in a surgical procedure ( I won't say for not wanting to offend but check your history, it's the same as always).Besides we like it when you come to play as well as your guys are alot better looked after than we are!
Robbo
Whiskey
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Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:20 AM UTC
Actually sgtreef the first US military action was against Japan and not Germany.It was a little event called Doolittle's Raid.
Folgore
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Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:33 AM UTC
I think Jeff was refering to how the Allies decided to concentrate on Germany first and then Japan. That doesn't mean nothing happened in the Pacific.
Nic
Nic
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:23 PM UTC
[quote]Actually sgtreef the first US military action was against Japan and not Germany.It was a little event called Doolittle's Raid.[/quote
Zach---I was going to question your statement, but I believe you are correct. The first offensive action of the war in the Pacific was probably the Doolittle Raid of April 1942, the Battle of the Coral Sea is in May and the Battle of Midway is in June, we go into Guadalcanal in August. Can someone (hopefully my good friend Ranger 74) cross check me here?
DJ
Zach---I was going to question your statement, but I believe you are correct. The first offensive action of the war in the Pacific was probably the Doolittle Raid of April 1942, the Battle of the Coral Sea is in May and the Battle of Midway is in June, we go into Guadalcanal in August. Can someone (hopefully my good friend Ranger 74) cross check me here?
DJ
Whiskey
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2002 - 06:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think Jeff was refering to how the Allies decided to concentrate on Germany first and then Japan. That doesn't mean nothing happened in the Pacific.
Nic
Well in reality the Pacific was left to the US Marines, Navy and our Aussie friends down south. The Army had ground troops in the Pacific but it was no where near the amount the Marines had. Im not quite sure where it was but I read a article in recent issue of WWII and it was interesting to hear that the Marine that was interviewed said that he had never been happier when he saw US Army troops coming to thier position to relive them after they had been fighting for like a week or two.
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2002 - 06:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI think Jeff was refering to how the Allies decided to concentrate on Germany first and then Japan. That doesn't mean nothing happened in the Pacific.
Nic
Well in reality the Pacific was left to the US Marines, Navy and our Aussie friends down south. The Army had ground troops in the Pacific but it was no where near the amount the Marines had. Im not quite sure where it was but I read a article in recent issue of WWII and it was interesting to hear that the Marine that was interviewed said that he had never been happier when he saw US Army troops coming to thier position to relive them after they had been fighting for like a week or two.
Sir--please re check your figures. The Army presence dwarfed the USMC involvement.
DJ
Ps--count the Army Air Force!
Whiskey
Member Since: May 30, 2002
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2002 - 09:38 AM UTC
But Im not counting the Army Air Force
clovis899
#155
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2002 - 11:30 AM UTC
IIRC the US Army carried out more opposed amphibious assaults than the Marine Corps did in the Pacific alone. Not meant to denigrate the tremendous and decisive effort of the Marines, but the only area that the US Army could never match them in was the PR department! 
Coop
Coop
Whiskey
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Posted: Friday, October 11, 2002 - 02:05 PM UTC
Yeah I dunno wth I was thinking when I said the Marines had more troops.The marines had 4 divisions and the Army had like 30 something I think.
Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 02:13 AM UTC
I have been away from this forum for a while. Never made it past the model forums, and couldn't get on the home computer - too many computer literate kids at home.
1. I have a couple items: Yes the Army conducted more amphibious ops in the Pacific, a lot were New Guinea, Solomons, and Philipines. The Marines had 6 divisions, but the Army had less than 30 committed to the Pacific. The Army had bigger and more numerous targets in the SW Pacific thus requiring more landings. This is not a statement to dinegrate the Marines , it just shows that the Army too can land on a hostile beach.
2. First offensive action by US in WW!!? Do anti-sub patrols count as offensive or defensive
missions? US had the Neutrality patrols starting in 1939 along the Atlantic coast. Doolittle raid was in April. The Pacific fleet conducted a serious of carrier raids on some the Pacific Islands very early in the war. Will have to research
3. Declaration of War? Several of the previous entries were correct in that Article 1 of the Constitution says only Congress can declare war. It does not state how Congress must do that. So the recent resolutions passed by the Congress should suffice. I do not recall Clinton getting permission from Congress to attack Yugoslavia (Serbia).
Jeff
Never made it past the model forums, and couldn't get on the home computer - too many computer literate kids at home.1. I have a couple items: Yes the Army conducted more amphibious ops in the Pacific, a lot were New Guinea, Solomons, and Philipines. The Marines had 6 divisions, but the Army had less than 30 committed to the Pacific. The Army had bigger and more numerous targets in the SW Pacific thus requiring more landings. This is not a statement to dinegrate the Marines
, it just shows that the Army too can land on a hostile beach.2. First offensive action by US in WW!!? Do anti-sub patrols count as offensive or defensive
missions? US had the Neutrality patrols starting in 1939 along the Atlantic coast. Doolittle raid was in April. The Pacific fleet conducted a serious of carrier raids on some the Pacific Islands very early in the war. Will have to research
3. Declaration of War? Several of the previous entries were correct in that Article 1 of the Constitution says only Congress can declare war. It does not state how Congress must do that. So the recent resolutions passed by the Congress should suffice. I do not recall Clinton getting permission from Congress to attack Yugoslavia (Serbia).
Jeff
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 02:56 AM UTC
Jeff--good to have you back. The Marcus Island raids took place very early in the war. I think you will find they pre dated the Doolittle raid. Absolutely correct on the Army participation in the Pacific. As I recall, of the six Marine divisions involved in the Pacific, the 5th only fought at Iwo Jima and the 6th only at Okinawa. The 1st Cavalry Division, for example, engaged in more combat than that once it hit the Pacific.
DJ
Ps--Jim should be posting us shortly....thanks for getting back with me.
DJ
Ps--Jim should be posting us shortly....thanks for getting back with me.
Whiskey
Member Since: May 30, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 06:32 AM UTC
1st Cav was there?Sheesh I need to do more reading lol.My old man was in 1st Cav and those were some fun times.
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 07:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
1st Cav was there?Sheesh I need to do more reading lol.My old man was in 1st Cav and those were some fun times.
The 1st Cavalry was most assuredly an active Pacific participant. Admiralty Island, Manus Islands, Philippines. We proudly proclaim ourselves "First in Tokyo." We would have been the first in Hanoi, if anyone gave us the chance.
DJ
Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 12:36 PM UTC
1st CAV DIV was one unit in which I never had the privilege to have served.
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2002 - 01:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
1st CAV DIV was one unit in which I never had the privilege to have served.
Sir--you missed an opportunity to serve with one of the best!
m60a3
Member Since: March 08, 2002
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2002 - 11:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
3. Declaration of War? Several of the previous entries were correct in that Article 1 of the Constitution says only Congress can declare war. It does not state how Congress must do that. So the recent resolutions passed by the Congress should suffice. I do not recall Clinton getting permission from Congress to attack Yugoslavia (Serbia).
Jeff
I don't think that Clinton needed permission from Congress. He got it from "The Media". Funny, I don't remember electing those scuzzbags either! #:-)
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2002 - 12:39 PM UTC
Tonight's ABC News highlighted the anti-war demonstrations in California (how unique). I believe the old anti-Vietnam crowd is looking for another media feeding on their views before they see the pearly white gates. Their exercise of free speech is based on the President not making the case that Iraq is a clear and present threat to the US. I wonder what their reaction will be if something happens on the West Coast.....Hmmm
DJ
DJ
Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 05:32 AM UTC
Sorry Jim, but if Saddam wants to start on the LEFT coast, I won't miss it Lived there in the '60s and mid-'80s, and was glad to leave the second time. Teh Californians will probably think a NUC explosion was a nuclear power station going critical due to a quake #:-)
CNN has mase a big deal out of the referendum ongoing in Irag to determine if Hussein will stay for another 7-year term. They must be hurting for real news stories
Lived there in the '60s and mid-'80s, and was glad to leave the second time. Teh Californians will probably think a NUC explosion was a nuclear power station going critical due to a quake #:-) CNN has mase a big deal out of the referendum ongoing in Irag to determine if Hussein will stay for another 7-year term. They must be hurting for real news stories
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 06:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry Jim, but if Saddam wants to start on the LEFT coast, I won't miss it
CNN has mase a big deal out of the referendum ongoing in Irag to determine if Hussein will stay for another 7-year term. They must be hurting for real news stories
Jeff-- I second the emotion. Dock workers making $100K a year, taxes up the ying-yang, and anti-war protest ....slow day for the news boys
DJ
Bodeen
#026
Member Since: June 08, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:57 AM UTC
I guess I'll have to go back to the Mid-30s to when Hitler was rearming and re-occupying the Rheinland,etc.....people knew then that he posed a threat and did nothing to stop him. What would have happened if France and England had declared war on Germany..a few years before before the invaision of Poland or even before the Munich agreements...Would they have been considered heroes or just big bullys interfering in the right of another nation to rule itself. Hindsight is indeed 20/20. We are facing EXACTLY the same situation as in 1939. I think that a declaration of war is necessary...with or WITHOUT UN approval. I don't take this lightly. My stepdaughter is ready to ship out to Kuwait. This something that really needs to be done. SADDAM is a ticking timebomb who could go off at any time. I don't want to see any of our young men or women killed...or any innocent Iraqis for that matter. We all know that Saddam will never agree to in-depth arms inspections in his palaces. Get rid of him now before millions of lives are at stake!
Bodeen
#026
Member Since: June 08, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:14 AM UTC
Sorry guys...I guess I goofed by mixing current events with the history site. You can see, though, how our current world situation parallels the events of over 60 years ago! Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it! Jeff 210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:24 AM UTC
Bo--you make an excellent point by way of historical comparison. If you believe what you see and hear from the news, we are embaking donw and long and slippery slope. I take a different view and say we are embarking on a preventive mission which will save countless lives. If someone places bombs in Bali there is no limit to there devious designs. Stop them now and move on with life.
DJ
DJ
Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:06 AM UTC
Bodeen,
I agree with DJ in that you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Both Germany and Iraq sign armistice papers that placed limits on their military activiry and both countries violated those agreements. One lead to the start of WW2 in Europe and the other is capable of expanding into a major war in the Middle East.
Another parallel is the failure of the western world to come to the aid of China against Japan in the 1930s. If Japan had been challenged by more than an oil & steel embargo by the US, England and France then WW2 in the Pacific might have been avoided. The US had it head in the sand then.
If you find termites in your yard, you hopefully don't wait thill they enter your house before you take action.
Jeff
Jeff
I agree with DJ in that you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Both Germany and Iraq sign armistice papers that placed limits on their military activiry and both countries violated those agreements. One lead to the start of WW2 in Europe and the other is capable of expanding into a major war in the Middle East.
Another parallel is the failure of the western world to come to the aid of China against Japan in the 1930s. If Japan had been challenged by more than an oil & steel embargo by the US, England and France then WW2 in the Pacific might have been avoided. The US had it head in the sand then.
If you find termites in your yard, you hopefully don't wait thill they enter your house before you take action.
Jeff
Jeff
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Bodeen,
I agree with DJ in that you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Both Germany and Iraq sign armistice papers that placed limits on their military activiry and both countries violated those agreements. One lead to the start of WW2 in Europe and the other is capable of expanding into a major war in the Middle East.
Another parallel is the failure of the western world to come to the aid of China against Japan in the 1930s. If Japan had been challenged by more than an oil & steel embargo by the US, England and France then WW2 in the Pacific might have been avoided. The US had it head in the sand then.
If you find termites in your yard, you hopefully don't wait thill they enter your house before you take action.
Jeff
Jeff
Jeff--which leads me to branch off of this discussion by asking is "the media reflecting the mood and temperment of the people?" Are there a significant number of people who say we should not go to war with Iraq?
DJ
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