Well,

They can stamp my meal card " no dessert"

There is a tremendous need for MP's in the Army.

We just don't need them riding around on post in white mice doing what are effectively meter maid jobs. I applaud the effort to get soldiers of any MOS out of admin support details & back into their units doing wartime task training. Those Div MP Co need to be working on their battlefield control tasks, etc.

I've also had MP Bn (EPW/CI), EG Co, the POW LNO Teams, etc, under me. Annual training comes & they get sent to Camp Swampy to do post patrol -- not their MOS.

800th MP Bde had Something-Sword, a waste of time because the compound guys never got decent training. My few experiences, they only didn't have the "prisoners' 24/7 and most the training went to the admin/processing section. I fought attendance at that every year and regularly got hammered in YTB/QTB for referring to it as an "MP Love-In".

Only time we ever got good training was one year, I got our EPW/CI Bn sent to Ft Leavenworth to work in the Disciplinary Barracks. That was great. Couldn't get a long term, steady rotation through for subsequent years.

OTOH, the Army (all of it) never had an appreciation for what constituted training for MP's. My POW LNO Team was supposed to go to Korea -- you know how much training in Korean environment I could get in Omaha ?? Two weeks in Korea every few years isn't enough, they need it all year long. I had an MI Language Company with same problem, until the MI reorganized again & they went away. Unless we solve this problem in peacetime, we'll just keep having it in wartime.

As far as I'm concerned much of the Abu Ghareb (sic) problem is directly attributable to two things -- MP's not trained to do their job IN A NON-ENGLISH HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT (not the individuals fault), and the 800th MP Bde. (And yes, I read the investigation).

John, who is not MP

I agree with you in regards to training. Depending upon what type of company you were assigned determined how much of the combat training aspect you would receive. As an example. when assigned to 5th MP, 5th Div (Mech), we lived in the field! the 258th (and they were suppose to be a part of the Rapid Deployment Force) had more road time than us. On the other hand, when I arrived at the 218th...I wasn't issued TA-50!..well..I had a sleeping bag. The only time we had seen field gear was when we had "junk on the bunks " and if we were supporting REFORGER. Yes, that's right..otherwise it was kept in supply and was always painted, as well as mud and chip free. Alerts, we were out in the boonies for maybe a couple of hours (longer if we had to tow jeeps back). Beyond that, we had our A and B bags which I'm pretty sure contained our "real" TA-50. Which justifies my thoughts that back then we were a speed bump for the Red Army.

Steve

Great comments. When I was in the 300th MP (at that time Command, and now, just like the 800th a Brigade), we would do an every other year Silver Sword/Gold Sword EPW Exercise, with one or the other HQ in charge. Several comments. There seemed to be a difference in how the two units approached things. (Forrest Gump)

John's comments about training are right on the money, and I complained about it as did every other commander. It is easy to create an "OPFOR" for a TOE combat unit, because the "OPFOR" units are also working on their METL tasks while they are in the exercise. But the "OPFOR" for an EPW unit is "prisoners", and there is no one whose METL includes BEING a POW. John is exactly right. The only section which got much of a work out was the processing section. Compound control teams, to get a value added exercise, would have had to be in charge of hostile prisoners 24/7 for several days to get any REAL training. Our only source of "prisoners" was either "borrowing" some other unit's soldiers to run them through the experience. But commanders were reluctant to give them up for more than a few hours, because they were not receiving THEIR METL training during AT. And doctrine said a compound control team of about 4-5 would be responsible for in excess of FIVE HUNDRED prisoners. (Reality would be MUCH more)

IRR soldiers, called up for AT???? I don't think so. The best we came up with was, "Today I'm in the box, tomorrow you're in the box." , which obviously cuts everyone's time to train in half.

We even tried to get our soldiers sent to work in military detention facilities, but there were issues, and besides, those are not EPWs and there are some different requirements in handling US Military Prisoners, that made that not a good idea.

Handling prisoners is ALWAYS an afterthought to the combat, and it isn't a surprise that there is little effective training to prepare soldiers how to do it.

It is my understanding that the US Army/Marine Corps are the ONLY military forces in the world who even have units constituted specifically for the mission, and there are obvious reasons they'd be allocated to the Reserve Components.

To DarkTrooper's comments, when I commanded the 785th MP battalion, one of my subordinate companies was the 79th MP Company, which happened to be Combat Support. They were mobilized to support operations in the Balkans. Perfect call.

Except, they back filled for an Active Duty MP company in Germany, which was split up into multiple detachments all over the country, and doing "white hat" Law and Order Operations. Yes, it's the SAME 95B MOS, but the Active Duty unit was not constitued, trained nor EQUIPPED to do Combat Support. But off they went to the Balkans, and a perfectly capable CS unit was split up to do LE work.

Stupid.

Tom

If I didn't know better, I would have sworn you were speaking of the 218th. That was our mission. LE in Augsburg, Munich, Bad Tolz, Garmisch, Berchtesgaden, and Chiemsee...........What? I earned it!

Two years in Ft. Polk...It was a nice "Thanks Steve you did a good job...now enjoy the rest of your enlistment"...and I did..and I would do it again in a heart beat.

I don't know how you managed to survive having been assigned to such challenging places.

I believe the expression, is "It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it."

Having been to every one of those places, I can truly say there are not many places on the planet I would enjoy being in more than ANY of those spots.

(We won't mention that Munich is my "home town".)
Tom

ooohhh....it was brutal. Not finding a good table at Oktoberfest, being forced to go to the Lowenbrau tent rather than the Hofbrau.. an understocked refrigerator at the Ibsee...all those Bavarian farm girls and that 5:1 ratio... shift running overtime and missing the last lift to the slopes...all those company trips to France, Italy, and England....it was hell! ( we had a 1st Sgt who hated "barracks rats"..thus the trips.)

The worst part, going to check out a raft for a float trip down the Isar and not having one large enough to include the beer and the binos for sunbathers......I think that alone justified hardship pay.

When my tour was over, I wanted to go back to the 21st Repo Depot and kiss the female E-6 who assigned me to the 218th....I thought I'd died and went to heaven.

Steve, this is just great !!!!: :-) :-)
"ooohhh....it was brutal. Not finding a good table at Oktoberfest, being forced to go to the Lowenbrau tent rather than the Hofbrau.. an understocked refrigerator at the Ibsee...all those Bavarian farm girls and that 5:1 ratio... shift running overtime and missing the last lift to the slopes...all those company trips to France, Italy, and England....it was hell! ( we had a 1st Sgt who hated "barracks rats"..thus the trips.)"

makes me happy to have spent all my days in the field, scaring off Russkies & the like, so you could do that :-)

Break:
My biggest issue with the garrison MPs, especially in FRG, was their instance that they do nothing until the chain of command was present.

I've got a 200+ lb troop beating his wife in quarters (or maybe vice versa) on one side of the door and a couple of 200+ lb MP's all starched up on the other side & no one is doing squat till the 140-lb platoon leader shows up ????

I've got some troops in jail 100 miles away & they want me to get out of bed & come get 'em at 0100 ??? Sorry, you coming thru broken & distorted ....

Tom:
That example you gave about the unqualified AC unit being given the mission and the perfectly qualified RC unit being something else, is a something that I just got tired of fighting everytime we went somewhere. I really enjoyed getting to O6 with a command, because that carried a lot of weight even AC-wise when I went to see how my units were being treated .... Payback was hell ....

John

John,

I understand what you're saying in regards to garrison duty, but in some defense to MPs (in my frame of reference), we were told on a daily basis how many ways it was possible to find ourselves doing the IDF shuffle. We were also told and expected to act on our own intiative, yet the minute you did, it didn't take long before you found yourself being jacked up by a Duty Officer and Patrol Supervisor. And if there was an officer involved...forget it.

It took very little to end up on the carpet in front of the Provost Marshal explaining your actions the following day, always praying to God that you'd be spared an Article 15 for some ridiculous transgression...like not getting the lanyard pulled to fire the post cannon at the precise nano-second before the music began. (trust me, it happened.)

It was fine line. One that forced you to CYA at all times, even from those within your own unit. It was almost a sport to see if anyone could burn an MP and get him or her reclassed or sent to jail. At that time, you could be reclassed at the drop of hat and it happened often.
I don't know, maybe it was just during that time period...maybe it was isolated to those places I was assigned (though I doubt it, because I've heard the same from others)..maybe it's different now, I don't know.

If it helps, I did live in the field with the 5th.
NTC, Golden Sabre, REFORGER, FTX's everytime you turned around. Plus, the armored cav unit I finished my last bit of reserve obligation. When I arrived in FRG, I just got to see how the other half lived. I was just thankful I wasn't sent to a nuke site.

Take care
Steve

I was and still am, proud of serving in both MP worlds. Like I've said before, if given the chance I'd do it again...either one.

We used them in Iraqi Freedom to gaurd POWs. The reasoning was if the POW attempted something you stick him in a non-vital spot before using deadly force. It is also a good scare tactic to have a 12 inch knife 6 inches from your face. It also prevented friendly casualties. If you shot a round close range, it could easily exit the enemy body and hit a friendly. Fortunately I think that no POWs had to be stuck, a quick blow with your fist or buttstock made them rethink trying to run or grab a weapon. The Bayonet idea was thought up when a Hagi grabbed an M16 during his surgery and he was shot. When the bullet exited his body it clipped a doctor (Only a flesh wound).

I thought the blade on the m-16 was only around 7 inches or so, maybe smaller. Did they enlarge it from the 70's. I have an old WW 2 Japanese Arisaka rifle and bayonet. The blade on that puppy alone is over 15" long.

The M-16 assault rifle and the M-7 Bayonet that comes with it are still in use in Singapore Armed Forces. We have develop our next generation assault rifle the SAR-21, eventhough the sar-21 does not complement the M-7, (it was not design with bayonet fighiting in mind) the M-7 is still issued out with the rifle.
I strongly believe that the bayonet should be part of the standard equipment. In current days, section commanders or Sergeants and officers are issued P-226 as side arms, the bayonet can still play its role. I badly wanted to keep my M-7 but i wasnt allowed. So i only get to keep my scabard.
Say you guys know anybody who might sell them online?

Depends on Division and unit SOPs. All units have Bayonets on their property books and available to issue, one for each Soldier in the unit. Some commander's feel there is no need to issue them. They are wrong. I issued them out for every field problem and definitely when we deployed to OIF. They are very usefull and the M9 is much more than just a bayonet. It is a full spectrum fighting knife and can even be configured as a wire cutter (using the sheath and knife).




The old M-7 bayonet had a blade length of 6.5 inches. M9 has a 7 inch blade and an overall length of 12 inches.

Here they are side by side.

Check out eBay... I've seen a few people selling them.
Together with the scabbard.