do anyone think its important to superdetail models.
one thing most modellers never do is show what at times could be excessive wear on heavy tank sprockets please view my photos and please respond.
thanks dennis
linkname http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=267680098

I think you need to get reasonabe hear. Lets say that you got 10mm of wear on a sprocket tooth - In 1/35th scale that 0.28mm or just over a 5th of a mm. IMHO your time would be better spent on other ways. No one is ever gonna notice that.

With that said if you want to do it - go for it - who am I to stop you?

sticky. I was refering to excessive wear which could happen on tanks that had been in the field for a long period, not average wear regards dennis

Dennis, Sorry but I agree with John (Sticky) here. I don't understand why you are posting this on every armor modeling site around. Keep in mind the Tiger II at Saumur has been around quite a while and it's not like they can run to the warehouse and get a replacement sprocket when they need one. These tanks did get maintenance and when it reached a point when they couldn't they were many times abandoned and/or destroyed. I have quite a collection of Tiger refs which includes many pics and on none that I can remember are the sprockets as badly worn as you keep talking about. Even on those that are shown after being abandoned by the crews. But again if you want to model your tanks that way feel free, and I will build mine the way I see fit.

Cheers,
Mike

Tank sprockets have a wear groove. Similar in concept to a car tire wear mark. When the wear starts to get to the bottom of the groove, the sprocket is reversed so the opposite side will take the brunt of wear. When both sides have worn to the groove, the sprocket is replaced.

While it is a PITA to reverse a sprocket, it is a task that can be done in the field by the crew.

mike I DONT KNOW WHY SOME OF YOU MODELLERS GET SO UPTIGHT WHEN A DIFFERENT SUBJECT COMES ALONG mine was only a suggestion ,I see you model most prestine condition tanks, may this subject was not your liking sorry for that , the reason I have taken this to other forums was to get some feed back

Sprocket wear from one of the tanks in the movie Kelly's Heros.

Dennis, I'm not getting uptight, but it seems that after seeing this same topic on other sites that you are trying to "thrust" your views upon others. That we are all doing things wrong unless we do it your way. Once again, I'm sorry, but I disagree with you on this subject. I think to portray your model like you are saying would be first, incorrect, and second, as John said above, the wear in 1/35 would be so miniscule as to be unnoticable.
The crews of these vehicles had to depend on them for their lives and they were trained to do general maintenance, just as todays tank crews are. I have read many Tiger unit histories, and after battle diaries. There are many instances of crews doing repairs, even under battlefield conditions. I have read they could change from the transport tracks to the battle tracks in only 30-45 minutes. Knowing this I have no doubt they could change out sprocket rings if so needed, so I doubt you would see the kind of wear you speak of in battlefield conditions. (which is how many of us try to portray our models) Again I have seen no photographic evidence to support what you're trying to put forth. (pics taken during the war) But as before this is just my opinion, and you are entitled to yours as well. Oh and by the way, no I don't model tanks in pristene condition. If you're referring to the pics in my gallery they are all "in progress" builds. I don't like to "beat the heck" out of them, but I do dirty them up and "chunk up" the roadwheels at times.

Mike

The road wheel and sprocket of a Sherman which is still 'used' occasionally, although this does off course not show 'battle wear', it does show that the road wheels (rubber tyre) wear a lot quicker than the sprocket. Also, the way the sprocket fits the tracks, you would only have a 'widening' of the gap between the teeth, not a thinning of the teeth themselfs. To show that accuractly, you would have to file out the gap between the teeth. I have to agree with the above opionions, that in a scale of 1:35 this would be negligible.



I just drybrush a 'silvery/metal' color along the edges, to simulate chipped paint. But no to shiny, as the sprockets are seldom made of polished Alloy..

Cheers
Henk

Has anyone here tried to "reverse a sprocket"?

A 113 can be done by the crew. I know. A tank would need a maintance crew with a jib of some sort. Just a little more than an easy crew maintance job for a tank.

Oh and btw, I can see the wear on the sprocket in Henk's post.

The amount of wear will depend on how long the vehicle has been in service. From what I've read the Germans did not road march thier vehicles as much as the US did. I guess we need to have a book on German AFV sprocket wear. :-)


SB

I have changed the sprockets over on M1A1's "back in the day". It wasn't easy and it was done as crew level maintenance. We got very little help from our maintenance section . We did all the tanks in our platoon and every tank crew helped do the work on each others tank. As I recall, the worst part was breaking loose the bolts that held the sprocket to the rim. They were definately set at a high rate of torque.

Same experience here. I've reversed sprockets in the motor pool on M60A3TTS tanks. The platoon did a gang tackle on each vehicle, but not every sprocket on every vehicle needed to be done. I've also sheared a sprocket on an M1A1 Abrams in the field. We got towed back to the UMCP, the mechanics tapped out the broken bolts and we (the crew) put the new sprocket on the hub. Pain in the butt as I stated earlier, but not an unsurmountable task.

mike. you seem to be getting me all wrong I would never thrust my ideals on anyone, my all aim has to get modellers away the
same old subjects and talk about something new.
the photos I put on webshots have been viewed 700 times so there must have been some justification for posting.
and I apologise if you thought my intensions were anything other than getting modellers to talk
regards dennis

Would like to see the photos....
but this is the message I keep getting:


An error has occurred.

You do not appear to be the owner of this album.
Make sure you are logged in.

dave try this linkname http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=267680098

Nope Still not working

Now I`m really curious about the pics. That caused this conversation.

yep, still not working, one tells me no such url, the other gives me the error message.

try this linkname http://community.webshots.com/user/jtrowbridge5

That works now.

Maybe I am just being dense, but I am not seeing what can be categorically called "wear" on these images. Weathered yes. Worn down? No.

Jim

Hi All

Very good question. Which if i can explain why i do it on certain vehicles I model.

On Centurions and even on Chieftains, the wear on the sprockets is VERY visible. It is because they are what is called a Dry pin track & not a live track i.e. with end connectors or run on the out side of the track.

On a Centurion AVRE once the bottom edge of the tooth which catches the track was normally about 2 inches wide; it actually was half that at the base of the tooth and curved.
Now at this point you either as already said take the sprockets off & changed the rings , but this would caused the tracks to sprag (jump). So in this case we would put over pitched sprockets and try & re-pin the track and even add a link. Now you ask why re-pin. Well the pins come out like miniature crank shafts where they are so worn.
Normally to change both sets of sprocket rings & re-pin a track a days work for a crew of 5 on an AVRE.

Some where I do have a picture of a sprocket which is so visible it is unreal to the state where one tooth broke at the base because it had worn so much.

Now I see what he means on the King Tiger but that is just normal wear to me and I would not add it to a model but the Centurion I am building (when I finish the M55) I will because of the way I am modelling the model, but more over because I have seen it for real but only on British tanks.

Hope this explains some of it.

Ossie

ossie. thanks very much you have sumed up my ideal

jim. can you not see the sprocket on the nearside of tiger picture on top row and bottom right also, looking straight on the tracks hardley any teeth protuding, all other photos are just showing what they should look like under normal conditions
regards dennis