We are again having some serious issues raised on the discussion of current events (see the War on Saddam topic in the junk drawer). I am trying to figure out ways to allow civil discussions like this but am getting closer and closer to throwing my hands up and imposing more stringent guidelines (ie: no current event/politcal rant topics). There is one alternative though I want to get your feedback on.
Rename the History Talk folder to the "History Club". Restrict access to only allow those who have signed off on the "club" rules. Only club members would be allowed access (works the same way the Contributor Roundtable works). The guidelines would spell out acceptable conduct (no hate speech, try to stay on topic, keep political rants to a minimum, etc). But the added advantange would be to sign-off that you are signing up for this forum with the advance knowledge that the discussions can get heated and you are ok with that. This way users who are not looking for this kind of subject here can avoid this forum completely. And if they do sign-up and then find some comment offensive (that isn't hateful or outside the guidelines) they can't really complain about it because they were forewarned in advance to have a "thick-skin".
I would have to figure out a way to automatically add people to the club using some kind of signup form...but should be possible.
What do you think?
Jim
History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Hosted by Frank Amato
History Forum: Restricted Access?
staff_Jim
Publisher
Member Since: December 15, 2001
entire network: 12,571 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 01:34 AM UTC
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 01:58 AM UTC
Jim---I totally agree and wish to support the club ideas in any way possible. I enjoy this forum and like the other regular contributors only want to make it better in the future. Let me know if I may be of any assistance.
DJ
DJ
m1garand
Member Since: February 08, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 01:58 AM UTC
I think that it sounds like a good idea.
Cob
Member Since: May 23, 2002
entire network: 275 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 02:04 AM UTC
I understand your frustration Jim,
Like several others, I too enjoy the history discussions. It is inevitable that in discussing the past we will try to relate to the present. Once that happens, I usually back out because the discussions often degenerate into emotional posturing(my opinion). There are plenty of other sites where this is not only normal but seems to be encouraged. I applaud your efforts to keep this site on track. I think this (posturing)happens because people discussing current events don't have the benefit of hindsight of history to temper what they say and because the internet is anonymous.
I suggest starting a new forum called current events and use the rules you outlined for entry. If a history discussion turns into a current events dialogue, the moderator can move it to the more restricted forum. Those who want to continue the discussion can log in there and those who don't care for that can stay in the history forum. It might even have the effect of "forcing" us to keep the discussion on topic so we don't "lose it".
thanks,
Cob
Like several others, I too enjoy the history discussions. It is inevitable that in discussing the past we will try to relate to the present. Once that happens, I usually back out because the discussions often degenerate into emotional posturing(my opinion). There are plenty of other sites where this is not only normal but seems to be encouraged. I applaud your efforts to keep this site on track. I think this (posturing)happens because people discussing current events don't have the benefit of hindsight of history to temper what they say and because the internet is anonymous.
I suggest starting a new forum called current events and use the rules you outlined for entry. If a history discussion turns into a current events dialogue, the moderator can move it to the more restricted forum. Those who want to continue the discussion can log in there and those who don't care for that can stay in the history forum. It might even have the effect of "forcing" us to keep the discussion on topic so we don't "lose it".
thanks,
Cob
matt
Campaigns AdministratorMember Since: February 28, 2002
entire network: 5,957 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,626 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 02:09 AM UTC
I agree w/ Cob ,A "Current events" Catagory may be more Appropriate. And have the "login" or warnings to this Category.
Matt
Matt
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 02:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I understand your frustration Jim,
Like several others, I too enjoy the history discussions. It is inevitable that in discussing the past we will try to relate to the present. Once that happens, I usually back out because the discussions often degenerate into emotional posturing(my opinion). There are plenty of other sites where this is not only normal but seems to be encouraged. I applaud your efforts to keep this site on track. I think this (posturing)happens because people discussing current events don't have the benefit of hindsight of history to temper what they say and because the internet is anonymous.
I suggest starting a new forum called current events and use the rules you outlined for entry. If a history discussion turns into a current events dialogue, the moderator can move it to the more restricted forum. Those who want to continue the discussion can log in there and those who don't care for that can stay in the history forum. It might even have the effect of "forcing" us to keep the discussion on topic so we don't "lose it".
thanks,
Cob
COB--I like that idea. Sounds like an easy and workable alteration. Obviously, I do not command Armorama so I do not have a full appreciation of the magnitude of the problem. However, we all want to ensure the history forum continues to attract users and assist in an increase of our knowledge (see for example Jeff Leiby's contribution on landing operations). I can assure you that I got hot under the collar about a commentary in the Armor section and as far as I am concerned it should have been moved to a current event forum (or dumped over board). But, I digress.
DJ
Folgore
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:07 AM UTC
I think it sounds like a great idea, Jim. I am a second year History major in university and find our discussions and debates really helpful, for the most part. Debate and analysis is what we're expected to do. I agree, though, that it becomes less useful to historical debate when people are just ranting. I will join the "club" if and when it goes into operation.
Nic
Nic
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think it sounds like a great idea, Jim. I am a second year History major in university and find our discussions and debates really helpful, for the most part. Debate and analysis is what we're expected to do. I agree, though, that it becomes less useful to historical debate when people are just ranting. I will join the "club" if and when it goes into operation.
Nic
Nic--how come you did not comment on the German Nerve Gas post?
DJ
BillyBishop
Member Since: March 20, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:12 AM UTC
I am not a big fan of the idea. I am disappointed that we need it.
MSW
MSW
Folgore
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nic--how come you did not comment on the German Nerve Gas post?
DJ--I think I did actually. Take another look.
Nic
Kencelot
Member Since: December 27, 2001
entire network: 4,268 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:23 AM UTC
Jim, I like the idea of having a "club" which must be joined in order to participate in such discussions. That's why I don't post much in those topics...I need a club...a big wooden one.
Just kidding on the wooden club but, a club in which all rules are laid down for all to agree upon before joining may work in keeping these "delicate" subjects matters civil.
Just kidding on the wooden club but, a club in which all rules are laid down for all to agree upon before joining may work in keeping these "delicate" subjects matters civil.
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextNic--how come you did not comment on the German Nerve Gas post?
DJ--I think I did actually. Take another look.
Nic
Nic--I read that one, I posted a response and it looks like no one wants to re engage.
DJ
sniper
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 1,065 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:02 AM UTC
Jim,
I had replied to the Saddam thread when it appeared first in the History forum. I only responded once. I hope my remarks were not inappropriate, though I did say I wasn't concerned about the U.N. opinion.
I haven't really read the posts that came after mine, but just glanced at them. I don't know if you have removed the more 'heated' ones.
I would be more than happy to follow any guidelines you come up with regarding a new History forum. But, I hope I still will be able to give an opinion if it is in good taste. And, I have lots of opinions!
Going back to my original post in the Saddam thread, I tried to raise other questions and speak to both sides of the issue. I did not make disparaging remarks to any one nation or group of people. I was hoping that some of you military types might get us started on the logistics of a possible conflict and this is mentioned in my response.
Steve
I had replied to the Saddam thread when it appeared first in the History forum. I only responded once. I hope my remarks were not inappropriate, though I did say I wasn't concerned about the U.N. opinion.
I haven't really read the posts that came after mine, but just glanced at them. I don't know if you have removed the more 'heated' ones.
I would be more than happy to follow any guidelines you come up with regarding a new History forum. But, I hope I still will be able to give an opinion if it is in good taste. And, I have lots of opinions!
Going back to my original post in the Saddam thread, I tried to raise other questions and speak to both sides of the issue. I did not make disparaging remarks to any one nation or group of people. I was hoping that some of you military types might get us started on the logistics of a possible conflict and this is mentioned in my response.
Steve
Greg
Member Since: April 12, 2002
entire network: 455 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:33 AM UTC
I'll chime in too, though I don't have as much time for responses as I once did. Usually a topic has run its course by the time I can get time to see it. But anyway, I support both courses of action proposed: A club with restricted entry (I'll join, naturally) and a current events folder to help keep the headlines where they belong and the proud pontificating on the past where it belongs. 
Greg
Greg
Cob
Member Since: May 23, 2002
entire network: 275 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:46 AM UTC
One of the reasons I am more comfortable with historic topics and what if's rather than current events is that I am active duty. I have an opinion, but I don't want to even appear to disagree with decisions that are being made by the administration. There is no official ban that I know of on expressing my opinion, just a personal choice on my part.
v/r,
Cob
v/r,
Cob
staff_Jim
PublisherMember Since: December 15, 2001
entire network: 12,571 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 05:20 AM UTC
Ok....I think I have formulated a plan. 
This may take some time to set up but here's the outline.
OT Forums
"Insert Catcy Name Here" Lounge - This will be the Junk Drawer renamed. The guidelines will indicate that all non-modeling/site related topics should go here unless they go in the 2 below. Warn against user harrassment, foul language, and hate speach.
History Club - Discuss all history related topics here. Disclaimer that since this topics deals with a lot of opinion that discussions may occasionally become heated. Warn user against the practice of user harrassment, foul language, and hate speach. Those actions will result in immediate deletion (when reported) and user removal (if user continues in future after repeated warnings).
Current Events Club - Discuss all current event related topics here. STRONGER disclaimer that discussions may get heated. No thin-skins please. Warn user against the practice of user harrassment, foul language, and hate speach. Those actions will result in immediate deletion (when reported) and user removal (if user continues in future after repeated warnings).
Each of these forums will require a user to "accept" the guidelines before they can even view the forum. This will be a fairly easy process though.
I will also block these topics from being displayed on the Latest Postings page UNLESS the user is a member of those forums. (this will be the tricky part from a code standpoint)
Thoughts?
Jim
This may take some time to set up but here's the outline.
OT Forums
"Insert Catcy Name Here" Lounge - This will be the Junk Drawer renamed. The guidelines will indicate that all non-modeling/site related topics should go here unless they go in the 2 below. Warn against user harrassment, foul language, and hate speach.
History Club - Discuss all history related topics here. Disclaimer that since this topics deals with a lot of opinion that discussions may occasionally become heated. Warn user against the practice of user harrassment, foul language, and hate speach. Those actions will result in immediate deletion (when reported) and user removal (if user continues in future after repeated warnings).
Current Events Club - Discuss all current event related topics here. STRONGER disclaimer that discussions may get heated. No thin-skins please. Warn user against the practice of user harrassment, foul language, and hate speach. Those actions will result in immediate deletion (when reported) and user removal (if user continues in future after repeated warnings).
Each of these forums will require a user to "accept" the guidelines before they can even view the forum. This will be a fairly easy process though.
I will also block these topics from being displayed on the Latest Postings page UNLESS the user is a member of those forums. (this will be the tricky part from a code standpoint)
Thoughts?
Jim
matt
Campaigns AdministratorMember Since: February 28, 2002
entire network: 5,957 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 05:36 AM UTC
Sounds Great!!!!!
Matt
Matt
Kaboom
Member Since: June 19, 2002
entire network: 69 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 07:51 AM UTC
Sounds like a good idea. Although I don't post much, I enjoy hearing other peoples opinions, especially with such a global community we have here. Count me in.
Mark
Mark
sgtreef
Member Since: March 01, 2002
entire network: 6,043 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 08:35 AM UTC
Where do I sign up at 
Good one Jim
Ps should of included I don't allways join in the history talks unless the post is something I really like to talk about to say I am not much into Pacific theater. Why is their no Nam related ones either or Korea?
Good one Jim
Ps should of included I don't allways join in the history talks unless the post is something I really like to talk about to say I am not much into Pacific theater. Why is their no Nam related ones either or Korea?
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 10:03 AM UTC
I want to sign up too, good thing I read this first, I was about to post a thread for memorizing 9.11.2001.
Cob
Member Since: May 23, 2002
entire network: 275 Posts
KitMaker Network: 95 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 11:32 AM UTC
I think it's a good plan...and if it doesn't work, we can change it!
v/r,
Cob
v/r,
Cob
drewgimpy
Member Since: January 24, 2002
entire network: 835 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:32 PM UTC
I like your idea Jim. That way if your offended you where warned it would probably happen. It is great for you to offer extra places for socializing and discussions other than modeling. As you could probably guess I am for anything that is going to seperate the topic oriented modeling threads from the socail/joke oreitend stuff.
Folgore
Member Since: May 31, 2002
entire network: 1,109 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That way if your offended you where warned it would probably happen.
Have a little more faith in us....... I don't think we should warn people that they'll probably, as in more than likely, be offended.
Nic
Disclaimer: I can not be held responsible for any frivilous posts.
Folgore
Member Since: May 31, 2002
entire network: 1,109 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:40 PM UTC
Maybe I should keep the disclaimer as my signature.........
Nic
Disclaimer: I can not be held responsible for any frivilous posts.
Okay, okay......maybe not
Nic
Disclaimer: I can not be held responsible for any frivilous posts.
Okay, okay......maybe not
staff_Jim
PublisherMember Since: December 15, 2001
entire network: 12,571 Posts
KitMaker Network: 4,397 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:45 PM UTC
Thanks for the feedback guys. I will likely (meaning probably) do this soon to get it out of the way. I am working on a revision of the review section now and that will likely, er probably be up in a week or so.
Jim
Jim
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