HI
If ya'll go to MLM's reference page you will see a neat what if by JP. This has got me thinking about something I could do. Hmm a Leo 2A6 w/srtv 122 armour ..... I know some bemoan what ifs but if you have a kits started that you lost interest in, what better way to finish it off.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Cdn What if...
Logan
Member Since: September 30, 2004
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Posted: Friday, October 01, 2004 - 10:06 PM UTC
Copper
Member Since: December 26, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:40 AM UTC
Have a look at my Leo 2 in the gallery under 'copper". I did it one weekend when thinking "what if?" 
I'm sure its not accurate but was fun to build and paint )
Darryl
Barrie Ontario
I'm sure its not accurate but was fun to build and paint )Darryl
Barrie Ontario
Trackjam
Member Since: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 07:27 AM UTC
I did an M1A1 for a colleague back in the late 80s just before the bubble burst. (same white paper as the nuclear subs) Looks nice with a black maple leaf on it.
gcdavidson
Member Since: August 05, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 08:47 AM UTC
I've always wanted to some Cdn wiffers from the Corps '86 Orbat. Was the assault gun / StuG vehcile based on a Leopard chassis called the Chimera or something?
Trackjam
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Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 05:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've always wanted to some Cdn wiffers from the Corps '86 Orbat. Was the assault gun / StuG vehcile based on a Leopard chassis called the Chimera or something?
You mean this wee beastie?
gcdavidson
Member Since: August 05, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 05:23 AM UTC
Haha! YES! That's it exactly, apart from the Cr1 running gear, it's virtually 100% how I envisioned it! Good stuff!
Trackjam
Member Since: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 05:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Haha! YES! That's it exactly, apart from the Cr1 running gear, it's virtually 100% how I envisioned it! Good stuff!
Cr 1 running gear? I'll have you know the vehicle is equipped with a genuine hydropneumatic suspension purpose built for this vehicle! in 1988 this was known as a Category 3 weapon system.
Category 1 was what we had in service, which was obsolete and in too few numbers to make a difference.
Category 2 was stuff we would like to have but the government wouldn't pay for it.
Category 3 was stuff we would like to have but nobody had invented it yet.
I found a technical paper on it while doing my tech staff course at Shrivenham in 1993.
gcdavidson
Member Since: August 05, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 08:19 AM UTC
I take it back.... is that Centurion running gear 
? So that's waht happened to all those Mk 11's and ARV's that didn't make it to gate-guards!
Ahh, 1988, could the 87 White Paper have got it any more wrong?
? So that's waht happened to all those Mk 11's and ARV's that didn't make it to gate-guards!Ahh, 1988, could the 87 White Paper have got it any more wrong?
Trackjam
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Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 07:48 PM UTC
Actually they are wheels from a Cheiftain, but the suspension was scratchbuilt. I also used the Chieftain engine deck and gun barrel. The rest is scratchbuilt. I still have the plans somewhere. The original designers are lucky the MPs didn't get hold of them. In those days they didn't need a lot of evidence that you were smoking dope to make the charges stick.
tankmodeler
#417
Member Since: March 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 09:53 PM UTC
Paul,
Is that 1/35 or 1/76?
You should enter it in the Sci Fi campaign as they are doing Ground Vehicles and nothing could define fiction better than imagining that the Canadian Gov't would ever fund that! :-)
If you still have it you should bring it out to Ajax. That would be kinda cool.
Paul Roberts
President
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Is that 1/35 or 1/76?
You should enter it in the Sci Fi campaign as they are doing Ground Vehicles and nothing could define fiction better than imagining that the Canadian Gov't would ever fund that! :-)
If you still have it you should bring it out to Ajax. That would be kinda cool.
Paul Roberts
President
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Trackjam
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Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 11:23 PM UTC
Paul,
I'll bring it to AJAX but it's not fit to show. Lots of damage in previous moves, and I was still a relative novice modeller when I built it.
I'll bring it to AJAX but it's not fit to show. Lots of damage in previous moves, and I was still a relative novice modeller when I built it.
cdnkit
Member Since: July 02, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 02:18 PM UTC
Hey !!! That's a very nice looking "futuristic" tank. I like the idea !! I'm actually working on the same kind of project: Building some kind of sci-fi military armour. I have already married the upper hull of a LAV-25 to the lower hull of a LEO 2. This kind of modeling subject is fun to build since you don't have to deal with accuracy. Just make your imagination running !!
Will post some pics when it will start to look like a vehicle.
Will post some pics when it will start to look like a vehicle.
merkava8
Member Since: September 25, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 05, 2004 - 06:51 AM UTC
Any Canadian tank that is going to be a what if and still have a semblance of "reality" it will have to be a wheeled vehicle. Can you believe they are still going with that?!?!? Paul your high up there, we had a Capt try to explain the whole reasoning to us but it didn't make much sense. We're losing the whole shock value of the tank! Well, I'm just ranting....and not even as bad as the Strats. I'm still getting over 1 TOW company for the entire Army.... Well I should stop before I get myself in trouble. :-)
PEIRECCE
Member Since: August 14, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 05, 2004 - 08:02 AM UTC
I hear ya Mike!! Nobody can explain anything anymore. I never heard the one Tow Coy thing? I thought they were going to put the Tow Turret on the LAV III in order for the batts to maintain the TOW Capabilities? IN fact with the removal of the tanks and the movement to the FSV I though we needed more tow to deal with the armour threat. Makes me want to shake my head. On another note I hope things are good out west. And thanks for the offer of the pics. Have a good one, have a look at my gallery as I crossed over to the other side and built a Patricia M113! 
merkava8
Member Since: September 25, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 05, 2004 - 02:07 PM UTC
That looks great! It'll have to be a 2 VP track or 1 VP's 9 comd track or 79 track. Looking forward to seeing the completed project.
Trackjam
Member Since: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 12:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Any Canadian tank that is going to be a what if and still have a semblance of "reality" it will have to be a wheeled vehicle. Can you believe they are still going with that?!?!? Paul your high up there, we had a Capt try to explain the whole reasoning to us but it didn't make much sense. We're losing the whole shock value of the tank! Well, I'm just ranting....and not even as bad as the Strats. I'm still getting over 1 TOW company for the entire Army.... Well I should stop before I get myself in trouble. :-)
I'm afraid the TOW/ADATS/MGS 'system of systems' falls in the same category as the new subs. Its what we can afford not necesarilly what we need. The tank will be taken out of serve and repalced with the MGS for economic and political reasons. The economic reason is that it is diffficult and expensive to get them to theatre, not because we don't need them. the political reason is that to the Loiberal party, 'tank' is a four letter word.
The Army's take on this is thatt we must transsform ourselve's into a new medium weight force with an increased sensor and command function using the new Command and control information system. the sad part about this is that it is not expandible, uses obsolete computers and has difficulty taking to our allies.
I read an artcle inTechnology Review yesterday that sums it all up. Speaking about the meeting engagement of the 3rd Infantry Division at a bridge on the Euphrates River on 02 Apr 03, they report a battalion commander of the 69th Armour saying of the sensing and command function " we got nothing until they slammed into us", Speaking of the armour he had (30 tanks and 14 Bradleys) when faced by a force of 25 to 30 tanks and 70 to 80 APCs, "Whereas US tanks could take direct hits from Iraqi shells, Iraqi vehicles would go up like a Roman Candle. If the army had had Strykers at the front, a lot of guys would have been killed. What protected the US soldiers was not information but Armour.
gcdavidson
Member Since: August 05, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 01:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Any Canadian tank that is going to be a what if and still have a semblance of "reality" it will have to be a wheeled vehicle.
Well, were are buying MTV series, so our A echelons will have better tactical mobility than the F!
I think a good wiffer can be made on a Leo hull, and an M-109 hull. Remember - all it takes is one key politician to change his mind and we have tanks. If the US backs out of MGS, who knows what we'll have
Quoted Text
I'm still getting over 1 TOW company for the entire Army....
we are purchasing 33 LAV-TUA.... I think 3-6 will go to the School for trg, but that still leaves a lot left over for the armour defence coy.
merkava8
Member Since: September 25, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 06:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
we are purchasing 33 LAV-TUA.... I think 3-6 will go to the School for trg, but that still leaves a lot left over for the armour defence coy.
But just remeber, before this all happened, we had 48 TUAs and at least 12 - 24 BV 206/ Iltis TOW. 33 is very little to support an entire army. Yes I know they plan on adding the ADATS and the MGS to the matrix but still I think they will find themselves over stretch quite soon.
I've also heard talk that 1 CMBG will become the "Heavy" brigade and that 2 and 5 will become "peacekeeping" with the battalions in the "heavy" having only one LAV coy, with the rest being one truck mounted and one on foot. I'd like to try and see them do a 2 up 1 in depth tactic! This is a classic case of us having to make do with what we got. We'll manage to pull it off....somehow :-)
Trackjam
Member Since: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 07:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've also heard talk that 1 CMBG will become the "Heavy" brigade and that 2 and 5 will become "peacekeeping" with the battalions in the "heavy" having only one LAV coy, with the rest being one truck mounted and one on foot. I'd like to try and see them do a 2 up 1 in depth tactic! This is a classic case of us having to make do with what we got. We'll manage to pull it off....somehow :-)
The numbers nd mix are based on affordability not tactics or doctrine. There is no 'heavy" capability in the Canadian Army. 1 CMBG is at best a medium weight force. the rest is light to medium.
merkava8
Member Since: September 25, 2002
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2004 - 05:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
based on affordability not tactics or doctrine
Imagine what we could do with an american budget :-)
ex-royal
Member Since: May 03, 2003
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2004 - 06:00 AM UTC
Or even half ....hmmmm
Trackjam
Member Since: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2004 - 08:43 AM UTC
10% would be nice!
PEIRECCE
Member Since: August 14, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 12:59 AM UTC
The US Army is spending more every year for the next few years buying combats for the troops than the Canadian government is spending on the whole canadian army. So it stands to reason that I would be happy with the clothing budget! And as I drive along looking at the road through the holes in the floor of my iltis this weekend I can always hope that it will break down so I can go dismounted!!!!!!
Trackjam
Member Since: April 12, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 04:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The US Army is spending more every year for the next few years buying combats for the troops than the Canadian government is spending on the whole canadian army. So it stands to reason that I would be happy with the clothing budget! And as I drive along looking at the road through the holes in the floor of my iltis this weekend I can always hope that it will break down so I can go dismounted!!!!!!
You still have a floor in your Iltis? Consider yourself lucky.
merkava8
Member Since: September 25, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 03:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You still have a floor in your Iltis? Consider yourself lucky.
Well I saw a G Wagon a few weeks ago, so I think I'm doing the best. They keep waving a conversion course in front of our faces to make us behave! I'm doing an HL course right now so at least I got HEAT!
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