WHO ARE the potential customers?
Just curious...
Toni
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Selling works?
Envar
Member Since: March 07, 2002
entire network: 1,088 Posts
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:30 PM UTC
If I wanted to sell my works or maybe build some specific model for somebody, what kind of possibilities do I have? How modelmakers and customers find each other without having a modeling studio and standard marketing? What kind forums are there, where are the collectors or other potential customers?
WHO ARE the potential customers?
Just curious...
Toni
WHO ARE the potential customers?
Just curious...
Toni
penpen
Member Since: April 11, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:48 PM UTC
Maybe you can ask in a hobby shop if they'd accept to display one or two of your works, advertising
them for sale. Then, the deal would depend on your relations with the shop...
them for sale. Then, the deal would depend on your relations with the shop...
armyfiremn
Member Since: June 14, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:56 AM UTC
toni i'm sure if you post some pics here on the web site you'll get some bites. there are a couple of us out here that don't mind buying other people's works to add to our own dioramas or what not.
lightningdon
Member Since: May 06, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:59 AM UTC
I would think corporations would be a possibility. If you model subjects relating to specific corporations, they may be interested in promos, displays for offices, etc. Examples may be manufacturers of machinery, vehicles, etc. Museums in your home town may welcome peices for display that are appropriate to their theme. For example, here in Western Maryland, tourism is tied to the C&O canal. Big part of our heritage. Models of canal boats or locks may be of interest to the curator of the museum. Remember, museums may not be able to pay for stuff, but you could get your work on display in a vary prominent place for others to see. That's where the potential for a commisioned work lays. If you do something for display in an office or museum, make a small ID tag to go with the display. My office regularly gives away promos related to our business. It just so happens that they are usually manufactured items rather than models. We give away many die cast collectable NASCAR cars relating to various manufacturers we represent.
Also, don't discount good old ads in modeling mags. A little personal ad won't cost much, but any replies will be from PAYING customers.Hope this helps a little.
Don
Also, don't discount good old ads in modeling mags. A little personal ad won't cost much, but any replies will be from PAYING customers.Hope this helps a little.
Don
KFMagee
Member Since: January 08, 2002
entire network: 1,586 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:19 AM UTC
I've been in the "professional" space for several years now. My way is NOT the "only way" but here is how I turned my hobby into a business.
First, I began writing a lot of articles... magazines, newsletters, websites.... notice how many submissions I have in Armorama (particularly the DIORAMAS and the FEATURES/SECTION- "digital diamond" areas)? It takes a lot of time, you often don't get paid a dime, but it has already brought me customers, and a book deal.
Second, donate a few of your completed works to organizations such as libraries, schools, and VFW Halls. You will find a few bites from people this way as well. I dontated some pieces to a VFW, and serveral guys began bringing me photos asking if I could recreate them in dioramas. This is a great resource!
Third, place business cards in your favorite hobby shops. You may even want to leave them a nice binder portfolio showing your work. Use a high end color laser or professional photos... the better your binder looks, the better your work will come across. Tell the sales people you will give them a referral fee on all closed deals (I give 7%). You may have to also donate samples to the hobby shop.
Fourth - word of mouth will bring you farthest! A happy customer will show his work to buddies that have a similar interest, and before you know it, you have a customer list!
I also sell individualized pieces that I cast myself at trade shows, club meetings, and soon on my own website. This will also bring you work from other vendors who may be interested in having you paint and build thier products for display.
Be prepared to give away your best work! Hard to do, i know - turning lose your favorite pieces that represent your best talent, but that is what it takes to make a living doing this.
You can make a nice living in this market, but you have to be FAR BETTER than just "real good"... otherwise, you will not generate longterm business and repeat customers. There are people who do better work than I do, i have no doubt, but they can't do it quickly and deliver multiple projects at that same caliber of quality. That comes into the equation as well. If you can only do one "great" work per month, and sell that piece for $1,000 - well, you do the math and you'll figure out it is pretty hard to make a living on $12K per year.
Hope this helps!
First, I began writing a lot of articles... magazines, newsletters, websites.... notice how many submissions I have in Armorama (particularly the DIORAMAS and the FEATURES/SECTION- "digital diamond" areas)? It takes a lot of time, you often don't get paid a dime, but it has already brought me customers, and a book deal.
Second, donate a few of your completed works to organizations such as libraries, schools, and VFW Halls. You will find a few bites from people this way as well. I dontated some pieces to a VFW, and serveral guys began bringing me photos asking if I could recreate them in dioramas. This is a great resource!
Third, place business cards in your favorite hobby shops. You may even want to leave them a nice binder portfolio showing your work. Use a high end color laser or professional photos... the better your binder looks, the better your work will come across. Tell the sales people you will give them a referral fee on all closed deals (I give 7%). You may have to also donate samples to the hobby shop.
Fourth - word of mouth will bring you farthest! A happy customer will show his work to buddies that have a similar interest, and before you know it, you have a customer list!
I also sell individualized pieces that I cast myself at trade shows, club meetings, and soon on my own website. This will also bring you work from other vendors who may be interested in having you paint and build thier products for display.
Be prepared to give away your best work! Hard to do, i know - turning lose your favorite pieces that represent your best talent, but that is what it takes to make a living doing this.
You can make a nice living in this market, but you have to be FAR BETTER than just "real good"... otherwise, you will not generate longterm business and repeat customers. There are people who do better work than I do, i have no doubt, but they can't do it quickly and deliver multiple projects at that same caliber of quality. That comes into the equation as well. If you can only do one "great" work per month, and sell that piece for $1,000 - well, you do the math and you'll figure out it is pretty hard to make a living on $12K per year.
Hope this helps!
Envar
Member Since: March 07, 2002
entire network: 1,088 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:46 AM UTC
Thanks for the replys! I asked this mainly because I have no clue whatsoever how this business actually works...
This cleared many things!
Cheers,
Toni
This cleared many things!
Cheers,
Toni
Stormbringer
Member Since: January 20, 2002
entire network: 1,667 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 04:13 AM UTC
Hi there
With regard to selling models,i lent my local model shop 4 aircraft models because they wanted to do a display for the Farnborough air show.I lent them 3 kits for the Battle of Britain memorial flight and a 1:48 AH64d apache.The Lancaster kit to my eyes looked terrible, it was not a good model, but to my amazement the shop rang me and said that a lady had gone into the shop and asked to buy it.I just thought i'd relate this tale to you because you never know what will happen.
All the best
Peter
With regard to selling models,i lent my local model shop 4 aircraft models because they wanted to do a display for the Farnborough air show.I lent them 3 kits for the Battle of Britain memorial flight and a 1:48 AH64d apache.The Lancaster kit to my eyes looked terrible, it was not a good model, but to my amazement the shop rang me and said that a lady had gone into the shop and asked to buy it.I just thought i'd relate this tale to you because you never know what will happen.
All the best
Peter
CRYPTO1
Member Since: April 09, 2002
entire network: 18 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 05:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
KF makes some GREAT points ! I got my start in this business 13yrs ago by working directly with Tamiya, from that came the movie industry, military,privatecustomers , various companies, etc. One key that i have found that works is you need to provide a service that separates you from the rest and in time incorperate. once you do this then you will not have to look for customers, they will find you! Cheers BruceI've been in the "professional" space for several years now. My way is NOT the "only way" but here is how I turned my hobby into a business.
First, I began writing a lot of articles... magazines, newsletters, websites.... notice how many submissions I have in Armorama (particularly the DIORAMAS and the FEATURES/SECTION- "digital diamond" areas)? It takes a lot of time, you often don't get paid a dime, but it has already brought me customers, and a book deal.
Second, donate a few of your completed works to organizations such as libraries, schools, and VFW Halls. You will find a few bites from people this way as well. I dontated some pieces to a VFW, and serveral guys began bringing me photos asking if I could recreate them in dioramas. This is a great resource!
Third, place business cards in your favorite hobby shops. You may even want to leave them a nice binder portfolio showing your work. Use a high end color laser or professional photos... the better your binder looks, the better your work will come across. Tell the sales people you will give them a referral fee on all closed deals (I give 7%). You may have to also donate samples to the hobby shop.
Fourth - word of mouth will bring you farthest! A happy customer will show his work to buddies that have a similar interest, and before you know it, you have a customer list!
I also sell individualized pieces that I cast myself at trade shows, club meetings, and soon on my own website. This will also bring you work from other vendors who may be interested in having you paint and build thier products for display.
Be prepared to give away your best work! Hard to do, i know - turning lose your favorite pieces that represent your best talent, but that is what it takes to make a living doing this.
You can make a nice living in this market, but you have to be FAR BETTER than just "real good"... otherwise, you will not generate longterm business and repeat customers. There are people who do better work than I do, i have no doubt, but they can't do it quickly and deliver multiple projects at that same caliber of quality. That comes into the equation as well. If you can only do one "great" work per month, and sell that piece for $1,000 - well, you do the math and you'll figure out it is pretty hard to make a living on $12K per year.
Hope this helps!
dencoarty12
Member Since: June 21, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:27 AM UTC
Greetings, I've been a "pro-builder for over a dozen years. I don't do military stuff, Railroad and industrial subjects are my speciality. I started doing armor subjects as a hobby away from railroading. I found that building professionally can do serious harm to the "love of the hobby". I find it tough to model for my personal enjoyment when I have a commission waiting in the workshop. There's also a "burn-out factor" that can take it's toll. Something to consider when thinking about builing 'pro'. I've seen several builders who sell their work on ebay, by the way. Scott
"The Main Thing is to Have a Good Time"
"The Main Thing is to Have a Good Time"
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Greetings, I've been a "pro-builder for over a dozen years. I don't do military stuff, Railroad and industrial subjects are my speciality. I started doing armor subjects as a hobby away from railroading. I found that building professionally can do serious harm to the "love of the hobby". I find it tough to model for my personal enjoyment when I have a commission waiting in the workshop. There's also a "burn-out factor" that can take it's toll. Something to consider when thinking about builing 'pro'. I've seen several builders who sell their work on ebay, by the way. Scott
"The Main Thing is to Have a Good Time"
Yeah, I agree with you Scott, of course I am not at the level that people will pay money to buy my stuff. But the way I see this is it's my hobby, and I am the kind of person that if I do it for a living then I won't be interested in it anymore. I mean making them 2 hours a day is one thing, and making them 12 hours a day is another. Besides I will hate to have a deadline to catch or someone calling me 3 times a day to ask me the progress. I wouldn't mind build one or two to give away as a present to some friends. But I guess it's not in me both skillwise and my view of this to turn it into a business.
Envar
Member Since: March 07, 2002
entire network: 1,088 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 02:09 PM UTC
When I did illustration graphics and drawings as a freelancer, I had a two-year period that drawing was not just a hobby for me anymore. The work kind of sucked it out of me and I even started to hate my own style of drawing.
It took some time to recover but now when I´m no longer dealing with too much drawing in my daily job I enjoy drawing in my spare time. I think there is always the same problem when you go pro from a hobby. In the worst case it can kill the spark once and for all, no matter what form of art we are dealing with.
For me there is always a much greater value in a good work I make for myself than a good work for the customer. Perhaps I´m not being paid for making things for myself but I believe the boost it gives me makes me a better performer in my job, whatever I do. Value is not always about money.
:-)
Toni
It took some time to recover but now when I´m no longer dealing with too much drawing in my daily job I enjoy drawing in my spare time. I think there is always the same problem when you go pro from a hobby. In the worst case it can kill the spark once and for all, no matter what form of art we are dealing with.
For me there is always a much greater value in a good work I make for myself than a good work for the customer. Perhaps I´m not being paid for making things for myself but I believe the boost it gives me makes me a better performer in my job, whatever I do. Value is not always about money.
:-)
Toni
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 02:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
When I did illustration graphics and drawings as a freelancer, I had a two-year period that drawing was not just a hobby for me anymore. The work kind of sucked it out of me and I even started to hate my own style of drawing.
It took some time to recover but now when I´m no longer dealing with too much drawing in my daily job I enjoy drawing in my spare time. I think there is always the same problem when you go pro from a hobby. In the worst case it can kill the spark once and for all, no matter what form of art we are dealing with.
For me there is always a much greater value in a good work I make for myself than a good work for the customer. Perhaps I´m not being paid for making things for myself but I believe the boost it gives me makes me a better performer in my job, whatever I do. Value is not always about money.
:-)
Toni
Hi Toni,
But IF someone would pay 1 million for my drawing, then I totally have no problem with that! :-) :-) I am always ready to have a new hobby, such as Porsche collection, or date with super models... :-)
Envar
Member Since: March 07, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
But IF someone would pay 1 million for my drawing, then I totally have no problem with that!
Me neither. I you know someone who pays a million for a drawing please let me know!
I would most certainly help the guy out!
#:-)
Toni
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextBut IF someone would pay 1 million for my drawing, then I totally have no problem with that!
Me neither. I you know someone who pays a million for a drawing please let me know!
I would most certainly help the guy out!
#:-)
Toni
And I am sure if I can introduce someone, you will also do the 7% thing with me, right? #:-)
Envar
Member Since: March 07, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 04:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
And I am sure if I can introduce someone, you will also do the 7% thing with me, right?
Well, that´s something you have to discuss with my manager...
Toni
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 04:45 PM UTC
Gee, I thought if I got you that 1 million dollar deal, I by default become your manager.... #:-)
Roadkill
Member Since: June 09, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 05:13 PM UTC
Hi,
something I always wondered about, how do you place a price on something? Not that I am interested to sell my work but recently at a hobby chop I have seen a Tiger up for sale for 200 Euro! It was nice but who pays that for a build kit?
something I always wondered about, how do you place a price on something? Not that I am interested to sell my work but recently at a hobby chop I have seen a Tiger up for sale for 200 Euro! It was nice but who pays that for a build kit?
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 05:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi,
something I always wondered about, how do you place a price on something? I mean you by am model for. Not that I am interested to sell my work but recently at a hobby chop I have seen a Tiger up for sale for 200 Euro! It was nice but who pays that for a build kit?
You be surprised how people will pay for finished model, what get me into modelling is because 1. I like german armor, 2. I go to the shop to ask them if they could sell me one of the Stug IV on display, the selling price is about USD 500.00. And that's too much for me, so I decided to learn modelling myself. Well, turns out I should just spent the 500 and get it over with, now I spend more than this every month to accumulate my kits...
But my point is, the shop is selling the built kit about 400 to 600 USD a piece, and I saw them being sold...
Envar
Member Since: March 07, 2002
entire network: 1,088 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 05:37 PM UTC
The pricing thing is always difficult. How can you really tell what the right price is for a unique piece of work?
It´s easier with illustrations for example, but even then the money you get for the same work depends on your customer. A magazine probably pays less than an advertising agency...
In modeling there are much more personal emotions involved as the projects take a long time to complete. And if it´s a piece of some special theme important to you, it gets even more difficult. It may be different, though, if the theme came from a customer to begin with.
But if someone wanted to buy my White Death vignette for example, I probably wouldn´t sell it at any price.
Toni
It´s easier with illustrations for example, but even then the money you get for the same work depends on your customer. A magazine probably pays less than an advertising agency...
In modeling there are much more personal emotions involved as the projects take a long time to complete. And if it´s a piece of some special theme important to you, it gets even more difficult. It may be different, though, if the theme came from a customer to begin with.
But if someone wanted to buy my White Death vignette for example, I probably wouldn´t sell it at any price.
Toni
TreadHead
Member Since: January 12, 2002
entire network: 5,000 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:05 AM UTC
Good thread. I hesistated in responding to this one though, since my input would be 'second-hand' at best. But, here it goes (the short version):
Many years ago, when I was a young lad, my 'Da' would build these incredibly well done aircraft models and hang them from my bedroom ceiling. (always thought there was some sort of sadistic plan involved in hanging such a tempting target in a child's room)
Anyway, he was an innately talented man when it came to modeling & painting. (he was the opposite as a father unfortunately). He would travel to New York, to a place called (I think) 'The War Chest'. This was a specialized military memorabelia store that was frequented (apparently) by well-to-do collectors. My father started his career by meeting a gentleman there who was looking for 'pieces/parts' for a display that was going to be built for the Museum of History in New York City. After much discussion on the subject, my father offered to show some of his work to this gentleman, which he did about a week and a half later. (trying to shorten the story still) My father got the job, but as a 'volunteer', not a paid position. He worked very hard on this project (he even laid off the whiskey for the most part) and got it done ahead of time and for less in materials than was originally thought (my father scratchbuilt a lot of items).
My father's diorama was prominently on display at the museum for almost six month's.
At this point, his work had been seen by many enthusiast's, as well as collector's. He was also able to add this to his modeling resume'. After this, people were contacting him to build dio's and such for them. He did a lot of single figures. Mostly metal military miniature's.
And mostly from the 1700 & 1800's. He made more money from this 'side job' than he did from his regular job. It was just a bit more sporadic. His 'Masterpiece' (IMHO) was a very large dio depicting Napolean's retreat from Moscow. He was paid (I believe) $10K for that one. And that was in the 60's....
My apologies for the rather 'jumbled' story, but I was trying to spit it out so you didn't have to read a long boring post.
Tread.
As a personal indulgence, I must say, it's a shame he wasn't as good a father as he was a modeler...
Many years ago, when I was a young lad, my 'Da' would build these incredibly well done aircraft models and hang them from my bedroom ceiling. (always thought there was some sort of sadistic plan involved in hanging such a tempting target in a child's room)
Anyway, he was an innately talented man when it came to modeling & painting. (he was the opposite as a father unfortunately). He would travel to New York, to a place called (I think) 'The War Chest'. This was a specialized military memorabelia store that was frequented (apparently) by well-to-do collectors. My father started his career by meeting a gentleman there who was looking for 'pieces/parts' for a display that was going to be built for the Museum of History in New York City. After much discussion on the subject, my father offered to show some of his work to this gentleman, which he did about a week and a half later. (trying to shorten the story still) My father got the job, but as a 'volunteer', not a paid position. He worked very hard on this project (he even laid off the whiskey for the most part) and got it done ahead of time and for less in materials than was originally thought (my father scratchbuilt a lot of items).
My father's diorama was prominently on display at the museum for almost six month's.
At this point, his work had been seen by many enthusiast's, as well as collector's. He was also able to add this to his modeling resume'. After this, people were contacting him to build dio's and such for them. He did a lot of single figures. Mostly metal military miniature's.
And mostly from the 1700 & 1800's. He made more money from this 'side job' than he did from his regular job. It was just a bit more sporadic. His 'Masterpiece' (IMHO) was a very large dio depicting Napolean's retreat from Moscow. He was paid (I believe) $10K for that one. And that was in the 60's....
My apologies for the rather 'jumbled' story, but I was trying to spit it out so you didn't have to read a long boring post.
Tread.
As a personal indulgence, I must say, it's a shame he wasn't as good a father as he was a modeler...
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
entire network: 5,885 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 01:19 AM UTC
Wow, thanks for sharing Tread. That wasn't a long and boring post at all.
I refrained from commenting in this thread at first, but your post drew me in. I think it's admirable to want to enter into a professional building arena, but it isn't all that it's cracked up to be. I've been a professional builder for some time too. However, my style - like my modeling - is different. I don't feel the need for banners and sig lines and such to advertise that I am in business other than my little logo link - I like that. Jim created one for me that's really cool. Other than that, I wouldn't have one at all. I got into the professional side via word of mouth, national level competition, my website, and blind luck.
One year I really got heavy into it and almost matched my salary - but that was a practice in lunacy! My career suffered, my family suffered, and I suffered. I got away from that mentality quickly. I do get burned-out and sometimes the commissioned side of the "hobby" becomes a real drag on inspiration and freedom that got me into the hobby in the first place.
I created a balance for myself in which I will not take on too much anymore to preserve the fun and keep it a hobby. I turn down three times as much as I used to entertain doing, so that I can enjoy life - even participate here on the Forum. That's a challenge for me sometimes. I've found a little niche that is comfortable for me. Selling your works is fine, but personally, it's a drain too...
Gunnie
I refrained from commenting in this thread at first, but your post drew me in. I think it's admirable to want to enter into a professional building arena, but it isn't all that it's cracked up to be. I've been a professional builder for some time too. However, my style - like my modeling - is different. I don't feel the need for banners and sig lines and such to advertise that I am in business other than my little logo link - I like that. Jim created one for me that's really cool. Other than that, I wouldn't have one at all
. I got into the professional side via word of mouth, national level competition, my website, and blind luck.One year I really got heavy into it and almost matched my salary - but that was a practice in lunacy! My career suffered, my family suffered, and I suffered. I got away from that mentality quickly. I do get burned-out and sometimes the commissioned side of the "hobby" becomes a real drag on inspiration and freedom that got me into the hobby in the first place.
I created a balance for myself in which I will not take on too much anymore to preserve the fun and keep it a hobby. I turn down three times as much as I used to entertain doing, so that I can enjoy life - even participate here on the Forum. That's a challenge for me sometimes. I've found a little niche that is comfortable for me. Selling your works is fine, but personally, it's a drain too...
Gunnie
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
entire network: 1,561 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:22 AM UTC
Selling my built models.... now that's something I'll never have to think about! 
Would I ever buy an expensive, built model? Yes. But, it would have to be a skillfully built model of something that has meaning to me. i.e. related to Star Wars, or just something I find cool.
YodaMan
Would I ever buy an expensive, built model? Yes. But, it would have to be a skillfully built model of something that has meaning to me. i.e. related to Star Wars, or just something I find cool.
YodaMan
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