Quoted Text
Well that was way off topic... Sorry guys!
Sorry, I just gotta do it...
Actually an entertaining tale...
History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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Blood & Guts
m60a3
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 778 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:39 AM UTC
Sorry, I just gotta do it...
Actually an entertaining tale...
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:51 AM UTC
Tom-- the Japanese tested an atomic bomb in Korea? What exactly did they do?
thanks
DJ
thanks
DJ
Savage
Member Since: June 04, 2003
entire network: 1,405 Posts
KitMaker Network: 592 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 08:33 AM UTC
As I said in another post Bill Mauldin in his ‘The Brass Ring’ (1971) summed Patton up nicely:
“If you're a leader, you don't push wet spaghetti, you pull it. The U.S. Army still has to learn that. The British understand it. Patton understood it. I always admired Patton. Oh, sure, the stupid bastard was crazy. He was insane. He thought he was living in the Dark Ages. Soldiers were peasants to him. I didn't like that attitude, but I certainly respected his theories and the techniques he used to get his men out of their foxholes.”
von Rundstedt actually scares me more than almost any other General during WW2. He planned- and was Commander-in-Chief, Army Group South during the Polish campaign.
With Barbarossa he warned Hitler of attacking Russia during the winter.
He started the fortifications of the Atlantic wall.
He continually pops up and spoils the Allies plans e.g. Market Garden, Ardennes / Battle of the Bulge this all at the age of 64 to 70 and having suffered IIRC two heart attacks and suffering from chronic heart disease.
“If you're a leader, you don't push wet spaghetti, you pull it. The U.S. Army still has to learn that. The British understand it. Patton understood it. I always admired Patton. Oh, sure, the stupid bastard was crazy. He was insane. He thought he was living in the Dark Ages. Soldiers were peasants to him. I didn't like that attitude, but I certainly respected his theories and the techniques he used to get his men out of their foxholes.”
von Rundstedt actually scares me more than almost any other General during WW2. He planned- and was Commander-in-Chief, Army Group South during the Polish campaign.
With Barbarossa he warned Hitler of attacking Russia during the winter.
He started the fortifications of the Atlantic wall.
He continually pops up and spoils the Allies plans e.g. Market Garden, Ardennes / Battle of the Bulge this all at the age of 64 to 70 and having suffered IIRC two heart attacks and suffering from chronic heart disease.
Halfyank
Member Since: February 01, 2003
entire network: 5,221 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,983 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 06:13 AM UTC
I've been AWOL here for a while but I thought I'd jump in here, on the question of if Patton is over rated. I'm not sure over rated would be how I'd put it. I think that historians and military people probably have a pretty good handle on Patton's abilities, and failings. I think the issue is if he's over publicized. Because of Patton's colorful nature, and his love of publicity, and especially because of the movie, Patton is probably the single most recognized figure in American military history, with the possible exception of Robert E Lee.
I think Patton was a great Army commander, but I'm not sure I'd want him commanding an Army Group, and certainly not a Theater. If you believe that Patton lived before, and was a Napoleonic Marshal, he was very much like Marshal Ney, good at one level but not good any higher than that.
I truly wonder how much of what everybody seems to think of Patton comes from the movie, and how much was that the man was a military genius, if flawed.
I think Patton was a great Army commander, but I'm not sure I'd want him commanding an Army Group, and certainly not a Theater. If you believe that Patton lived before, and was a Napoleonic Marshal, he was very much like Marshal Ney, good at one level but not good any higher than that.
I truly wonder how much of what everybody seems to think of Patton comes from the movie, and how much was that the man was a military genius, if flawed.
Gunny
Member Since: July 13, 2004
entire network: 6,705 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,084 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 06:10 PM UTC
Rodger:
I can only speak for myself and my own opinions about Patton, which are sincerely formed by my own personal research on the man myself. I feel that if anyone bases their opinions about a subject from a hollywood production is completely ridiculous...Granted, movies can be based on true to life stories and experiences, but there will always be a large amount of glamoritization in movies. My opinions are based on research of said subjects, this one being Gen. Patton, from writings and reports about the man himself, and personal interviews with the soldiers that were directly involved with George's campaigns.
Sincerely,
Gunny
I can only speak for myself and my own opinions about Patton, which are sincerely formed by my own personal research on the man myself. I feel that if anyone bases their opinions about a subject from a hollywood production is completely ridiculous...Granted, movies can be based on true to life stories and experiences, but there will always be a large amount of glamoritization in movies. My opinions are based on research of said subjects, this one being Gen. Patton, from writings and reports about the man himself, and personal interviews with the soldiers that were directly involved with George's campaigns.
Sincerely,
Gunny
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I've been AWOL here for a while but I thought I'd jump in here, on the question of if Patton is over rated. I'm not sure over rated would be how I'd put it. I think that historians and military people probably have a pretty good handle on Patton's abilities, and failings. I think the issue is if he's over publicized. Because of Patton's colorful nature, and his love of publicity, and especially because of the movie, Patton is probably the single most recognized figure in American military history, with the possible exception of Robert E Lee.
I think Patton was a great Army commander, but I'm not sure I'd want him commanding an Army Group, and certainly not a Theater. If you believe that Patton lived before, and was a Napoleonic Marshal, he was very much like Marshal Ney, good at one level but not good any higher than that.
I truly wonder how much of what everybody seems to think of Patton comes from the movie, and how much was that the man was a military genius, if flawed.
Rodger-- I think you raise some very valid points. As I stated earlier, I attend several WW II vet reunions and seldom hear anything else but "I served with Patton.." One could get the feeling that apparently there were no other general officers in the ETO. I think he is over rated and certainly popoular public knowledge because of the film. I also believe that Custer is a well known figure because of the popular books that arise from his defeat. My point is that perception management leads our all too media based society to "believe" whatever we are bombarded with through the entertainment industry. As we read more about these historical figures we can appreciate that they were talented individuals who put on their pants one leg at a time. Just like the rest of us.
DJ
PS-- we'll let you off this time, but no more AWOL excuses.
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