which historical figures do you think have won false aclaim?

i would nominate;
Montgomery for alemain and Michael Wittman.

monty gets all the praise for the battle of el alemain, when all the planning of the alemain defensive line was devised by Auchinlech. Auchinlech often gets branded for the retreat across the desert, but this was in order to fall back on the alemain line. after his dismissal by churchill, monty comes in giving out a few 'stiring' memos(there shall be no more retreat etc) and carries out someone elses plan resulting in victory.

Michael Wittman wins acclaim for making a poor tactical decision, sending the bulk of his tanks away, then continues on his own into villiers bocage. where british tank crews have stopped, gotten out of their tanks and started making cups of tea. Wittman destroys the tanks(rather easy as the crews arent in them) and withdraws. later when he faces british tanks that actually have soldiers in them, he gets nailed by a firefly.

thoughts anyone?

cheers

joe

Howdy greatbrit,

As far as 'Monty' goes, in an attempt to remain P.C. (and hopefully avoid any flames), I will simply state that I feel the same way about 'Monty' as Patton did.

Now, as to Herr Whittman. I have long haboured the personal belief (a leaning really), that his decision, in a war that was lost, and in a command position that, in the end would allow him no honour, did in fact, chose to end his life in battle with his opponents.
His command history showed that his decisions were generally shrewd, and well thought out. He was never one to put himself or his subordinate's at a known disadvantage.
And his decision that morning to send his entire Regiment in the opposite direction he decided to take alone is completely (IMHO) contrary to his already evidenced command style. Almost the entire area was known to be under a historically fast-moving Allied offensive, and the idea that the town of Villers Bocage would either be empty or unoccupied to some degree is ludicrious.
Hence, I believe he decided to end his military career in what he felt was the closest attempt at personal 'honour' he could create for himself, while still maintaining his oath of allegiance to his Fuhrer, and obedience to his orders of 'defense to the end'.

Tread.

Oh, and I'm quite sure he had no way of knowing that we British were 'toodling' at the time. Nor, even given that information, would he be expected to wait until we'd put our 'kit' away......


...sorry for the wee tirade, but you did ask for opinions.......

hi thread,

well thats an opinion ive never heard before, and i think there may be a lot of sense there too.

as for monty, im no fan, and i dont hold patton in any high regard either!

oh yeah, as for the 'toodling' you should know that all brits need large ammounts of tea to function correctly! :-)

cheers

joe

Whilst I wouldn't say that this guy had false aclaim from what I've read Lord Beaverbrook seems to have gotten more plaudits than he should. The story is that he was single handedly responsible for the vast increase in fighter production that ensured the RAF squadrons in the Battle of Britain could defeat the Luftwaffe. But from what I've read many of the changes to aircraft production which produced such an increase were already being introduced as a result of the government prioritising fighter production before Beaverbrook was appointed. True Beaverbrook did help by doing away with much of the "red tape" burocracy but he was a known self publicist and certainly gave little of the credit where it was really due. When Churchill told Bevan that Beaverbrook "was a magician" Bevan replied, "Yes, I was always told that magicians are 90% illusion".

Tough question. I think MacArthur would fall into this category.....

greatbrit you are right on the mark about monty, but what you forgot to mention is that your actually talking about the second battle of el alamein.auchinleck fought rommel to a standsill in the first battle.but was sacked by churchill when he said he would'nt be ready to attack for a few weeks.i never cared much for monty or patton or macarthur(not that i knew them )i think macarthur only liked YES men.and yes we brits need our tea to function sort of like americans and coffee.

You mean like Clark’s ‘Liberation’ of Rome, contrary to Alexander’s wishes!

Who said Monty and Patton didn't get along? (At least for the camera)



I gotta agree about MacArthur. What a prima donna putz.

yes my apologies, MLB is correct i was refering to the second battle of alemain.

cheers

joe

GEN Clark is one of those figure who leaves you wondering. He is a brilliant, dedicated staff officer. He leaves WWI a highly decorated Officer. When WWII approaches he skips the rank of colonel and is appointed as a general. So, in my view, he is highly capable. Eisenhower is a close personal friend and he despises Patton. When he leads Fifth Army ashore at Salerno, it is an operation that almost fails. His planning is faulty, but he definitely comes ashore to motivate his commanders. The push up the Liri River Valley is a tough campaign. The bombing of Monte Cassino is still highly questionable. The landing at Anzio is another near disaster. But, his flagrant disobedience to Allexander's directive to cut the German withdrawal from the Gustav Line and move instead into Rome defies all laws of common sense. So, I am left saying his negative points are high, but he did command and they did win.
DJ

All MacArthur did out of the call of duty was say a few lines while he pulled his men off of an invaded island.