Before I forget, there is Belgium & Italy. The Belgians have Fabrique Nationale makers of the now ubiquitous minimi Squad Automatic Weapon. This country also have companies liscenced to make most of Alvis companies designs of light tanks like the Scorpion. Then we have Italy's OTO Melara company liscenced to make the M113 and its variants. And of course the Berreta range of small arms. even Brazil exports its tanks.
But when/if our country borrows money from the U.S. to buy equipments then it is only tactful that we buy U.S. made equipments. Also, since we accept a lot of military aid/junk from the U.S. we are also obligated to have them first on our shopping list.
I know we are supposed to be just as good at jungle fighting as the Aussies are considering we have years of actuall fighting experience. But Australia's army expects that the wars it will fight will be in the jungle/tropics environmment and have trained themselve for such an eventuality.
Now about the quality of our soldiers. I can say for sure, having witnessed actual combat skirmishes while growing up in Mindanao, that our soldiers are so-so. Well that was in the late 80's and early 90's. Generally the morale was low that's why the numerous coup. Probably due to poor leadership and CORRUPTION. Our officers however are more of a disappointment. Does anybody remember what Stalin did with his officers? Hehe. I think you know what I mean.
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mondo
Member Since: July 04, 2003
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Posted: Friday, May 14, 2004 - 11:23 PM UTC
cardinal
Member Since: October 05, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 03:48 AM UTC
If I may add, regarding small arms/ assault rifles, didn't Armscor use to locally manufacture it in the Philippines? In my knowledge, Filipinos are good inventors so why don't the government capitalize on this trait? Just my 0.02 cents.
GIBeregovoy
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 03:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If I may add, regarding small arms/ assault rifles, didn't Armscor use to locally manufacture it in the Philippines? In my knowledge, Filipinos are good inventors so why don't the government capitalize on this trait? Just my 0.02 cents.
You mean the M16s? It was Elisco Tool MFG, a local company, which bought ArmaLite. Because of this, the M16 was produced here and eventually replaced the old rifles with this one. Hence, the urban legend that it was a Filipino named "Armando Lito" who "invented" the M16. They thought that ArmaLite stood for his name - Armando Lito. Another urban legend is that the inventor of the M16 - Eugene Stoner - was a Fil-Am. Sources: http://www.armalite.com/library/history/history.htm, http://pula.ph/?article=inventor_of_m16
The problem with some Filipino inventors is that some are really quirks and con-men. An example is Dingle who said that he can power his car with just plain water. When prodded to do a certain test, he withdrew. But the blame is on the government as well for not providing adequate subsidies for these inventors.
shonen_red
Member Since: February 20, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 05:33 PM UTC
I have come upclose with that Fil M-16. The one I've used, disassembled and assembled was the A1 version. Instead of the "Colt M-16" blah blah blah, I saw it was "used by permission from Colt blah blah blah" "made in the Philippines"
flex_cs
Member Since: December 03, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 12:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Now about the quality of our soldiers. I can say for sure, having witnessed actual combat skirmishes while growing up in Mindanao, that our soldiers are so-so
i have to agree with this statement i mean i think i have seen videos of soldiers fighting in Mindanao and they where just in the bushes or in trenches and shooting at nothing....they appear to be shooting at rebels but if u look closely its like they are just shooting in all directions and bahala na kung may matamaan. Our soldiers and officers need a lot of re-training
i know its hard and scary knowing u might be hit on your next step but in my thoughts jungle warfare is not that kind of warfare
does anyone know the real account of the rescue of the burnhams? from what i know the scout rangers were on high ground and we all know that high ground is an advantage point when engaging the enemy right so they should have killed all the rebels but despite that they have possibly hit the burnhams during the rescue....la lng dont take me as seeing our soldiers as lousy fighters but thats just my opinion
MONDO: do u have a link about Aussies and Koreans being good in jungle warfare?
buck
Member Since: November 12, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 03:12 AM UTC
I'll have to play devil's advocate on this one, guys.
I believe we have very good soldiers. True, some are corrupt, but we shouldnt consider all as such. The problem, really, is that the few corrupt ones affect the fighting capabilities of the majority. Remember that young officer who fought and died in Lamitan trying to rescue the Abu hostages?
Lets consider the equipment. Most of the M-16s you see in the field are quite old. In an account in SOF several years ago our Marines resorted to painting their rifles to cover up the rust. The quality of Fil-manufactured M-16s is questionable at best. I have soldier friends who told me they fired a standard 5.56 round through a local M-16 and it gouged a hole in a coconut. They loaded up the same type of round onto an FN FAL and it blew up the coconut.
Our Air Force without a doubt has nothing but old and obsolete equipment. They are still basically aiming bombs and rockets optically. We are essentially devoid of recon aircraft as the OV-10s are being used as strike aircraft. Our planes are old and worn, but our pilots still fly them. It seems the reason why crashes almost always end up in fatalities is that the crew try their best to save the aircraft right up to the bitter end.
Our Navy is even worse. If I were the head of MARINA Id probably ground 90% of our fleet for being unsafe for passage.
And our fighting men have to use these equipment to fight rebels. In the 80s a soldier in my dad's hometown told me they felt uneasy everytime they get in a skirmish with leftist rebels. He told me some of the rebels were armed with AKs, and their M-16s were outclassed. Still, somehow, they were able to drive away the rebels.
Perhaps what we need is an honest to goodness procurement policy that would equip our soldiers with the best arms that our meager money could buy.
I believe we have very good soldiers. True, some are corrupt, but we shouldnt consider all as such. The problem, really, is that the few corrupt ones affect the fighting capabilities of the majority. Remember that young officer who fought and died in Lamitan trying to rescue the Abu hostages?
Lets consider the equipment. Most of the M-16s you see in the field are quite old. In an account in SOF several years ago our Marines resorted to painting their rifles to cover up the rust. The quality of Fil-manufactured M-16s is questionable at best. I have soldier friends who told me they fired a standard 5.56 round through a local M-16 and it gouged a hole in a coconut. They loaded up the same type of round onto an FN FAL and it blew up the coconut.
Our Air Force without a doubt has nothing but old and obsolete equipment. They are still basically aiming bombs and rockets optically. We are essentially devoid of recon aircraft as the OV-10s are being used as strike aircraft. Our planes are old and worn, but our pilots still fly them. It seems the reason why crashes almost always end up in fatalities is that the crew try their best to save the aircraft right up to the bitter end.
Our Navy is even worse. If I were the head of MARINA Id probably ground 90% of our fleet for being unsafe for passage.
And our fighting men have to use these equipment to fight rebels. In the 80s a soldier in my dad's hometown told me they felt uneasy everytime they get in a skirmish with leftist rebels. He told me some of the rebels were armed with AKs, and their M-16s were outclassed. Still, somehow, they were able to drive away the rebels.
Perhaps what we need is an honest to goodness procurement policy that would equip our soldiers with the best arms that our meager money could buy.
mondo
Member Since: July 04, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 06:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextNow about the quality of our soldiers. I can say for sure, having witnessed actual combat skirmishes while growing up in Mindanao, that our soldiers are so-so
the rescue....la lng dont take me as seeing our soldiers as lousy fighters but thats just my opinion
MONDO: do u have a link about Aussies and Koreans being good in jungle warfare?
Surprisingly I can't/haven't find one.I have 3 books about vietnam, two of them is in the picture in of my posts. The one titled simply Vietnam War mentions a lot about other foreign forces fighting along side Armericans like the Thai's air force group, Korea's Capital Division and a handful of Aussies spec ops.
The Koreans were really ferocious and if they'd have invested as much personel as the Americans have, then I think we would have a different Vietnam. There was also a funny qoute about the Aussies there. If I remember correctly it goes something like this, "They were so good and so quite in the jungle that the VC's can't find them and they can't find the VC's". The Koreans enemey kills were very high and even POW's survivability rate was also tenuous at best. Aussies never estimate kills, rather "a kill is your boot on top of a body". So if they got into a fight and withdrew and not able to walk over the body, then it wasn't counted as a kill.
mondo
Member Since: July 04, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 07:05 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'll have to play devil's advocate on this one, guys.
I believe we have very good soldiers. True, some are corrupt, but we shouldnt consider all as such. The problem, really, is that the few corrupt ones affect the fighting capabilities of the majority. Remember that young officer who fought and died in Lamitan trying to rescue the Abu hostages?
Lets consider the equipment. Most of the M-16s you see in the field are quite old. In an account in SOF several years ago our Marines resorted to painting their rifles to cover up the rust. The quality of Fil-manufactured M-16s is questionable at best. I have soldier friends who told me they fired a standard 5.56 round through a local M-16 and it gouged a hole in a coconut. They loaded up the same type of round onto an FN FAL and it blew up the coconut.
Our Air Force without a doubt has nothing but old and obsolete equipment. They are still basically aiming bombs and rockets optically. We are essentially devoid of recon aircraft as the OV-10s are being used as strike aircraft. Our planes are old and worn, but our pilots still fly them. It seems the reason why crashes almost always end up in fatalities is that the crew try their best to save the aircraft right up to the bitter end.
Our Navy is even worse. If I were the head of MARINA Id probably ground 90% of our fleet for being unsafe for passage.
And our fighting men have to use these equipment to fight rebels. In the 80s a soldier in my dad's hometown told me they felt uneasy everytime they get in a skirmish with leftist rebels. He told me some of the rebels were armed with AKs, and their M-16s were outclassed. Still, somehow, they were able to drive away the rebels.
Perhaps what we need is an honest to goodness procurement policy that would equip our soldiers with the best arms that our meager money could buy.
Not that I'm putting them down so much. I've got two cousins who fought and died in the 70's. One in Cotabato and the other somewhere in Lanao. My mom told me about it. The one in Lanao died on a helicopter the other one on some "encounter".
I've got two schoolmates KIA in 2000. Estradas time. So far the last time I talked to one of them he was having a great time despite the hardship.
I have a good dissertation about our AFP I posted in another website's forum but I wouldn't want this forum to be political.
GIBeregovoy
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 10:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have a good dissertation about our AFP I posted in another website's forum but I wouldn't want this forum to be political.
We've had a political thread before which went OT in a few posts hehehe.
Post the link to your dissertation. Will be interesting reading.
And don't worry about it being political - as long as the posts don't become sh1t-flinging exercises, everything is cool.
buck
Member Since: November 12, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:49 AM UTC
Mondo,
GI's right. Please post it here. Its a friendly debate and we listen to what everyone has to say. Talagang fascinated tayo sa sarili nating Armed Forces, so any and all information/study is most welcome.
GI's right. Please post it here. Its a friendly debate and we listen to what everyone has to say. Talagang fascinated tayo sa sarili nating Armed Forces, so any and all information/study is most welcome.
riversphynxz
Member Since: May 15, 2004
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Posted: Friday, May 21, 2004 - 05:02 AM UTC
pano kung si fpj ang presedente? what can he do to upgarade our miltary? :-) :-) :-)
CSMeekai
Member Since: February 18, 2004
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Posted: Friday, May 21, 2004 - 01:32 PM UTC
what can he do? NADA! let's face it, people claim he is a good man... he may be one... but those people around him are voltures waiting for the kill.
GIBeregovoy
Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 21, 2004 - 01:58 PM UTC
Well, if Ef Fiji becomes prez, the military will be armed with the Mk. 2 PEB (Panday Expanding Bolo) [TM].
CSMeekai
Member Since: February 18, 2004
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Posted: Friday, May 21, 2004 - 02:09 PM UTC
with matching agimat, sir?
Tanker25
Member Since: January 20, 2003
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Posted: Friday, May 21, 2004 - 03:31 PM UTC
astig ang armory natin nun!
Imagine Colt 45 na di na kailangan i-reload? tapos meron pang kasamang Panday Sword!
oh well....
Imagine Colt 45 na di na kailangan i-reload? tapos meron pang kasamang Panday Sword!
oh well....
mondo
Member Since: July 04, 2003
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Posted: Friday, May 21, 2004 - 04:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
astig ang armory natin nun!
Imagine Colt 45 na di na kailangan i-reload? tapos meron pang kasamang Panday Sword!
oh well....
Yo! Yan nga ang sandata ng mga Christian vigilante (Pulahan, Verdehan, Sagrado Corazon, Puti-an ... ...) sa amin eh. Sundang (kris), pusil (mga paltik lang), anting-anting gawa sa tuhod or ugat ng halaman na babad sa lana (oil) at wag kalilimutan ang Latin version ng Apostles Creed (Credo Apsotolum) o Our Father (Pater Noster) nakasulat sa isang panyo at gawing bandana.
Madalas nga mas matapang pa ang mga ito. HeHe.
riversphynxz
Member Since: May 15, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 10:54 AM UTC
tapus, lahat ng mga sundalo natin sisigaw ng "SA KAPANYARIHAN NG PANDAY!!!!!!!!" bago sila sumugod sa kalaban. :-) :-) :-)
riversphynxz
Member Since: May 15, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 10:56 AM UTC
at lahat ng mga sundalo natin ay high ranking sa boxing, ituturo sa kanila ni FPJ kung panung sumuntok, makinilya stayle!!! :-) :-) :-)
riversphynxz
Member Since: May 15, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 10:58 AM UTC
at pag tinamad na sila makipagbarilan sa kalaban, sasabihin nila "LUMABAS ANG MATAPANG, SUNTUKAN NA LANG TAYO!!!!" :-) :-) :-)
Fritz
Member Since: March 17, 2003
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Posted: Monday, May 24, 2004 - 06:07 PM UTC
Syempre bukod sa pagiging Presidente si FPJ din ang magiging director ng PMA dahil siya ang ........................DALUBHASA 
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