Me 262 ...Would it have made a difference?

Hi all,
There are two main reasons why the fighter version of the Me262(Schalbe) didn’t go into full production much earlier than it did...1. Engine delivery was later than expected, and 2. Hitler’s insistance a bomber version be given priority untill much later when he agreed the fighter version should be made.

I ask if the fighter version was produced rather than the bomber version and it was on-time would it have made a difference?

Cheers
Peter
:-)

Yes, it would have been an initial shocker, but I do believe that the quality of the German pilots was seriously in question by that stage of war as were they factories where it could be built. The P-51 (someone correct me, if I am wrong) could shoot them down, the ME 262 had limited fuel for sustained flight and they nailed them as they came into land as I recall. I guess what I am driving towards is that it would not have swept the Allies from the air. We had an experimental jet in the works and the Brits had a flying one, so the German advantage while dramatic would have been temporary IMHO.
DJ

i agree with dj,

whilst it would have been a shock to begin with, most allied fighters were far better armed, and nearly as fast, they had limited range and used a lot of precious fuel,

if gloster meteors ever fought them, i think the meteor would come out on top, as according to what ive read, the meteor was far more manuverable.

they may have done some damage to bomber formations initially, but would have been useless against night attacks, also the factories that produced them would be targeted and eradicated quickly.

i think they may (like most late war german arms projects) have just slightly delayed the inevitable

cheers

joe

Although the 262 was shock it was way too late to be effective. Had the plane shown up in 1942-43 it might have devastated allied bomber groups. Can you imagine several dozen flying though a flight of B-17's in '43, without fighter cover?

But like the Tiger II, MAUS, etc. the 262 was too late to take great effect...

DJ hit it on the head with the Achilles Heal of the Me 262 - too few experienced pilots and the need for the Germans to provide fighter cover for the Me 262 airfields. The Me 262 was a sitting duck during return to its airfield. The Americans would sit on their airfields and nail them when they returned to base.

If they had arrived in 1943, they would have raised casualties, but remember, the USAAF lost 60 bombers to flak and prop planes on raids like Schweinfurt. They comsumed too many strategic materials for their engines that could have been put to better use on propr planes, at that stage in the war. The Me 262 engines were good for only a few flights.

I think the ultimate outcome of the war would have been the same, but if the pure fighter version had been given priority at the beginning of production, it would have made a difference, if only a temporary one. The one thing it might have done was that in answer the Allies might have put more impetus on their own jets and accelerated development and production.
Although late, the Swalbe version of the Me262 was accreditted with over 700 kills in a short period of time. But as mentioned already they were vulnerable during take-off and landing. Plus the lack of proficient pilots and fuel shortages had their effect also.

It would have been very interesting if the Meteor and the 262 had confronted each other.

Cheers
Peter
:-)

The challenge we always face in assessing the Germans during WW II is that of mirror imaging our (sane,logical) thought process on a totally corrupt and illogical collection of human beings. Any sane government would have set production quotas, organized strategic resources, built stock piles and mobilized their population to support the war aims of the nation. You find bits and pieces of this in Hitler's Germany but no coherent sustaining policy emerges. The war pproduction goes from Maus to ME 262 to V-2 rockets and then finds out it does not have enough oil for the ground forces or food for the population. It subjugates to the point of barbarism the people of the conquered nations and then has to fight a guerrilla war besides the conventional force war. So, dumb folks do dumb things. The ME 262 is a perfect example of a good idea brought forth by people who had no earthly idea on how or what to use to do whatever they were trying to do.
My two cents
DJ

Hi cav21,
2 cents? ...a bargain...more than a hundred dollars worth there.
Sage words.

Cheers
Peter
:-)

Just be thankful that Hilter and the NAZI Party were so corrupt!!

I believe correct use of the 262 at the right time would have been devastating to the 8th AF. They were already loosing too many aircrews and morale was waning, at the front and at home. Consider how long it took for the Memphis Belle's forst succesful 25 crew mission to happen. A super fighter, whicch is what the 262 would have been early one, would have forced a reduction of daylight attacks.

Another of the fortuitious stupid moves on the part of Hitler.

AJ-- I believe you are combining disparate events. Memphis Belle flew in 1942-43 as I recall. The 8th USAF was suffering some ungodly loss rate during that time. With the arrival of the P-51 and the B-17G losses went down substantially. The Brits flew at night, but as I recollect, they flew singularly and not in formations. So, you have the ME -262 and other wonder weapons coming on the scene when the Russians and the Allies are closing in on Germany. The attacking forces are at the peak of performance and the Germans have shot their wad. Fine advanced aircraft it might have been but Germany was hit by an aerial Kursk. As to the lessening of allied morale, I question that in 1944-45 the victors were demoralized. True, they wanted it to be over, but they sensed the light at the end of the tunnel.
MHO
DJ

One point not covered so far is the fact that the Me-262 had to be used as an interceptor only, speaks for the problem the Germans were in!!! (I know poor English)

The Me-262 was never tested as an offensive fighter. I believe that the limited range of the Me-262 would have severely limited its effectiveness as an escort.

My 2 cents:

I concur with what everyone said that the Me262 would have given the Germans an edge, albeit momentarily. But then again the Allies would have wised up and come up with technologies and strategies that would counter it. IIRC, a Tuskegee Airman (flying a P-51) shot down a 262.

Some would say, this pilot was lucky...(he either caught the plane unawares or the 262 pilot was not as good). You'd like to think that this incident proves that the Nazis, though they have the technology, it still does not make them invincible.

My Friend that is why nations win wars.....luck!

Just like any other late-war German gizmos the 262 was overwhelmed by the numbers of its foes. I agree that it will have the shock advantage but like the Blitz new tactics can be developed to counter it

Yari-- not only new tactics, but better and more reliable equipment flowed into the Allies hands at that stage of the war. Amazingly, the most effective weapon system (IMHO) to come on line was the V-2 rocket. It caused material and psychological damage that the Allies could only counter by moving faster into German and capturing the launch sites. Here we are some fifty years later and no has yet found a way to counter a ballistic missile threat. If he would have put his money and effort into those, well, he might have staved off defeat a long longer, but like bin Laden eventually the world gets tired of his antics and silences him.
DJ

The V-2 was indeed more like psycological weapon than a real tactical one. Much like the Kamikaze and to fast forward it to our times, the Jihadist suicide bombers

Back to WW2 while Japan were letting lose their Kamikazes on the US naval troops in the PTO, Germany also had a short-lived program of suicide pilots. They were not as effective as the Japanese though. Their primary targets were Allied Bombers.