hey guys, i was channel surfing last night, then on IBC 13 i saw this tribute hosted by Joel Torre (not bad as a host).
Have you guys seen this before? Its kinda great coz they also have video clippings and reenactment. They also have interviews with the USAFFE veterans. Well, I dont know how accurate they are. But I remember what El-Jefe is discussing last IPMS meet, about the Filipino Scout and how valuable they are during the battle of the pockets. The show also featured it.
Community Forum: Filipino Modelers PhorumWant to meet up with modelers in your country or region? This is the place.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
The Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor
Tanker25

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Posted: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 06:48 PM UTC
flex_cs

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Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 04:05 AM UTC
yep seen em many times nice show btw i hope dey feature more shows regarding our history....i was pissed off while watching that show one time coz they interrupted the show because they had to feature GMA's ad campaign!
i was thinking these guys fought more for their country compared to what she's done for the past 3 years...
la lng im not anti gma or something just that these guys are worth more than any politician in our country ryt now
i was thinking these guys fought more for their country compared to what she's done for the past 3 years...
la lng im not anti gma or something just that these guys are worth more than any politician in our country ryt now
4-Eyes71

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Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 12:20 PM UTC
To complement that, there's this book written by renowned military historian Uldarico Baclagon. I used this book when I did a paper on Bataan and Corregidor as part of my coursework in grad school. He mentioned that we did win several battles there. Pay close attention to the Battle of the Points and Pockets. A decisive victory on the part of the USAFFE forces over the IJA.
El-Jefe

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Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 01:47 PM UTC
The M-3 tank was scratchbuilt by Mel "Webster" Silvestre (1:1). Its made out of wood. The exploding Japanese tanks (if there were any) were scratchbuilt by his students. The 75mm gun that Sgt. Jose Calugas used was also scratchbuilt and the plans came from me. The gun and the M-3 tank can still be seen in UP today (fine arts building) during IPMS Meets.
cardinal

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Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 03:04 PM UTC
Some time ago, or was it last month, that raid on the Japanese POW prison in Cabanatuan, Nueva Ecija, was featured on the History Channel here. The raid was planned by US Army Rangers but they also gave credit to the Filipino Guerillas for their help. There were some actual footage shown in the program. There's even a book written about it but I forgot the title, I think it's "Ghost Soldiers".
Tanker25

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Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 06:24 PM UTC
el-Jefe,
Im about to ask you that, coz somehow i know ur involve he he he.
Kelan ba ginawa yung tribute na yun?
i agree with flex dapat talaga mas maraming ginagawang historical shows sa atin.
anyway...
Im about to ask you that, coz somehow i know ur involve he he he.
Kelan ba ginawa yung tribute na yun?
i agree with flex dapat talaga mas maraming ginagawang historical shows sa atin.
anyway...
GIBeregovoy

Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 11:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Some time ago, or was it last month, that raid on the Japanese POW prison in Cabanatuan, Nueva Ecija, was featured on the History Channel here. The raid was planned by US Army Rangers but they also gave credit to the Filipino Guerillas for their help. There were some actual footage shown in the program. There's even a book written about it but I forgot the title, I think it's "Ghost Soldiers".![]()
Yup. "Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides. Great book. Wonderful read. Got my (now missing) copy at then Page One (forgot the store's new name) at Rockwell. They also made a movie/tele-movie/mini-series in the USA starring that same local Filipino actor who played Jose Rizal and that fishing movie (name escapes me) who plays Juan Pajota. I want to see that production - especially the part where the deaf (or blind?) Brit POW was crapping in a shed all the while the rescue was being done. He was left behind hehehe but was later retreived.
Re: Bataan, USAFFE forces actually won several battles. Had it not been for lack of medicines, USAFFE would've lasted probably into May or even June, rather than April. IIRC, they had lots of ammunition, but what they really lacked was medicines (in the run to Bataan, I heard that they left behind or burned a convoy carrying lots of medicines). Homma was said to have been a bit depressed when he could not punch through the line at Bataan. His troops were weary. I remember a bit of a discussion on this at TankNet a few years ago and IIRC, it was possible that Homma would've actually withdrew (and probably even might've been relieved from command) from Bataan had USAFFE counter-attacked at a particular time. But without air support and transports, the conclusion was still the same - defeat. Still, the stand could've been longer with enough medicines to combat the usual jungle diseases. AFAIK, several amphib assaults by the Japanese were conducted to outflank the USAFFE MLR but these were chopped up by the defenders.
As for the Philippine Army, in general, it was good on paper, but just that - on paper. The really good Filipino soldiers were the Filipino Scouts, but they were IIRC not under the Philippine Army but the US Army. Still, they did very well against Japanese light tanks in the early battles.
Wanze

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 04:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSome time ago, or was it last month, that raid on the Japanese POW prison in Cabanatuan, Nueva Ecija, was featured on the History Channel here. The raid was planned by US Army Rangers but they also gave credit to the Filipino Guerillas for their help. There were some actual footage shown in the program. There's even a book written about it but I forgot the title, I think it's "Ghost Soldiers".![]()
Yup. "Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides. Great book. Wonderful read. Got my (now missing) copy at then Page One (forgot the store's new name) at Rockwell. They also made a movie/tele-movie/mini-series in the USA starring that same local Filipino actor who played Jose Rizal and that fishing movie (name escapes me) who plays Juan Pajota. I want to see that production - especially the part where the deaf (or blind?) Brit POW was crapping in a shed all the while the rescue was being done. He was left behind hehehe but was later retreived.
Re: Bataan, USAFFE forces actually won several battles. Had it not been for lack of medicines, USAFFE would've lasted probably into May or even June, rather than April. IIRC, they had lots of ammunition, but what they really lacked was medicines (in the run to Bataan, I heard that they left behind or burned a convoy carrying lots of medicines). Homma was said to have been a bit depressed when he could not punch through the line at Bataan. His troops were weary. I remember a bit of a discussion on this at TankNet a few years ago and IIRC, it was possible that Homma would've actually withdrew (and probably even might've been relieved from command) from Bataan had USAFFE counter-attacked at a particular time. But without air support and transports, the conclusion was still the same - defeat. Still, the stand could've been longer with enough medicines to combat the usual jungle diseases. AFAIK, several amphib assaults by the Japanese were conducted to outflank the USAFFE MLR but these were chopped up by the defenders.
As for the Philippine Army, in general, it was good on paper, but just that - on paper. The really good Filipino soldiers were the Filipino Scouts, but they were IIRC not under the Philippine Army but the US Army. Still, they did very well against Japanese light tanks in the early battles.
Hey GI,
The American's did not do very well in the whole battle of Bataan. According to El Jefe, some US marine units actually ran away from their positions till the whole was plugged by Filipino soldiers. May they be Philippine Scouts or PA, they still died for their country and it does take quite a lot of courage to do what they did. The PA was under equipped and not ready for the japanese when WW2 started. Once again, you can blame this on the politicians and American policies to the Philippines. Despite lacking material and proper training, they fought with raw courage and better than the Americans in some point.
They are still good soldiers in my book. I think a lot of the families of PA veterans would disagree with what you said above. My grandfather was a reserve officer and was given a 1st louie commision in the PA when WW2 started. He lived and fought in Surigao with his men and later went to the mountains with them to fight a guerilla action. He later fetch his family to hide in the mountains because the japanese were looking for him and might use them as hostages. This was a man who could have shed his uniform and gone back to his lucrative timber, hardware, and automotive dealership in Placer, Suriago. Instead he lived in mountain caves and fought against the japanese. Moreover, my mother was born in a cave in March 22, 1942. Also, none of his remaining men chose to go back to civilian life when he asked them the choice of fighting on or going back home. They were supplied by the americans with all sorts of equipment and stuff. Actually when WW2 ended, he kept all of the guns and buried them for safekeeping. When my grandmother came back to her hometown, their place was in shambles and they were pretty much bankrupt and had to start all over again. My grandfather only came back home after six months because he brought every single man of his guerilla group back home in requesitioned trucks. By this time, he contracted TB.
He only surrendered the buried guns during the Martial law years. According to my uncle, there was enough to material to equip a light company. There were even .50 caliber machineguns.
My grandfather was not a filipino scout but a PA reservist. The Philippine scouts were very good soldiers because of their proper training and experience. Experience and training is their advantage. I think after the PA units were bloodied, they rose to the occasion. Still all of them were Filipinos, who suffered, fought and died for what they believed in. Some of us, including me, still have to prove our worth as Filipinos.
Wanze
Tanker25

Member Since: January 20, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 05:29 AM UTC
i agree with wanze. and thanks for sharing ur story.
blitz

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 05:57 AM UTC
Rumours has it that they're planning to make a movie base on Hampton's novel "Ghost Soldiers" starring Tom Cruise and directed by Steven Speilberg.
GIBeregovoy

Member Since: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 09:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
They are still good soldiers in my book. I think a lot of the families of PA veterans would disagree with what you said above.
That's why I said "The Philippine Army was good on paper" - meaning equipment-wise and size-wise, it was supposed to be a good fighting defensive force at the time. On paper, equipment-wise, it had lots of planes, guns. On paper, size-wise, we had tens upon thousands of well trained men. Of course, once the sh1t hit the fan on December 8, all of that was apparent. I wasn't doubting the bravery and valor of our veterans, but merely the state they were in at the start of the war. Modernization of the Philippine Islands came too late at the time, and when it started, it was too little, with a lot of foot dragging on governments of both sides of the Pacific. And by saying "The really good Filipino soldiers were the Scouts", I meant the best of the best at the time - equipment, training, etc. Please re-read my post again, I guess you (and others) misunderstood the context of it. Besides, we were talking about Bataan and Corregidor, not the whole of WW2 (where you can input the guerilla actions). In Bataan, it was still fairly conventional, and though there would've been some rear-guard actions or behind-enemy-lines operations that would qualify as guerilla actions, it was still a battle involving MLRs and flanking attempts with the artillery duels and such - conventional in other words. Widespread guerilla warfare would come later.
Quoted Text
The Philippine scouts were very good soldiers because of their proper training and experience. Experience and training is their advantage. I think after the PA units were bloodied, they rose to the occasion. Still all of them were Filipinos, who suffered, fought and died for what they believed in.
Didn't I mention that already?
Like I said, USAFFE (ok - US forces AND Philippine Army units combined - the PA, since it was under the command structure of the US, by force of events it was part of USAFFE) fought well in Bataan and had they had enough medicines - it was disease that could to be the achilles heel of the defenders - they could've lasted a month or two longer.
Blitz: It's done AFAIK, since Cesar Montano (I think it was him) was back since two years ago after filming. See previous post above. (unless you're talking about a whole different movie from the one produced already)
Wanze

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 11:36 AM UTC
Hey GI,
I thought you meant that the quality of the men in the PA was in doubt when you said that "The Philippine Army was good on paper" and the PS was a better becasue they were under the Americans. OK, I can admit when I misread something.
I thought you meant that the quality of the men in the PA was in doubt when you said that "The Philippine Army was good on paper" and the PS was a better becasue they were under the Americans. OK, I can admit when I misread something.
4-Eyes71

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 11:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Rumours has it that they're planning to make a movie base on Hampton's novel "Ghost Soldiers" starring Tom Cruise and directed by Steven Speilberg.
Actually it was done. It stars Benjamin Bratt as the Ranger commander who led the raid. Our very own Cesar Montano plays Juan Pajota, the guerilla leader. The movie was done entirely in Australia.
The big question now is, when will be released in theatres? Or would we catch it on HBO in the future?
Jeepney

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 01:47 PM UTC
Hey Wanze! You actually have roots in Placer? I was born in Surigao City and stayed there the first 12 years of my life. My parents still live there. My grandpa was a scout during WWII and his area was the northern mountains of Cebu. He was awarded the Purple Heart and was in the infirmary when we declared victory against the Japanese. He moved to Surigao City after the war and met my grandmother at Surigao High. Sadly most of his mementos were lost in a big fire. He had a lot of stories about wrecks around the islands of Surigao. Someday I hope to see some of them.
blitz

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 04:08 PM UTC
#:-) oopss. sorry huli na ako sa balita sa sine.
Hey I might be off topic here.. or can somebody post a thread on the Phil. Army in the Korean War. Especially the Battle of Yultong.
Hey I might be off topic here.. or can somebody post a thread on the Phil. Army in the Korean War. Especially the Battle of Yultong.
Wanze

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 06:02 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Wanze! You actually have roots in Placer? I was born in Surigao City and stayed there the first 12 years of my life. My parents still live there. My grandpa was a scout during WWII and his area was the northern mountains of Cebu. He was awarded the Purple Heart and was in the infirmary when we declared victory against the Japanese. He moved to Surigao City after the war and met my grandmother at Surigao High. Sadly most of his mementos were lost in a big fire. He had a lot of stories about wrecks around the islands of Surigao. Someday I hope to see some of them.
Hi Jeep,
Yes, my chinese grandmother settled there with her father in the mid 20's. They had a hardware/ general mechandise store and timber trading concern. My lolo (from Bulacan) was a civil engineer, with the national road building project, assigned in the area. According to my lola, she was so much impressed with the tall and UP educated guy that she chose him over the other rich chinese suitors. They eventually married and settled in Placer. All of my uncle and aunts from the mother side was born in Surigao. After the war, they tried to re-establish themselves there but migrated to Manila in the 50's. Main reasons where most of my uncles and aunts won scholarships to study in the U.P. and lolo's TB worsened and needed the medical facilities in Manila. They had a grocery in Mindanao Ave. Lolo died and was buried with military honours in 1971. Lola always had facinating stories of the war and how they moved around a lot. Moreover, she fondly recalls how lolo looked so handsome with his uniform and Sam Brown belt on.
As for me, I was born in ABM Sison hospital (now Medical City). My family moved a lot and grew up mostly in Baguio (1975-79). Imagine before I came back in 1995, I lived no longer than four years in a particular province and country.
Whew, sorry for the long winded story.
Wanze
Jeepney

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Posted: Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 07:17 PM UTC
Placer was and still is a small town. I've been there a few times and I must say the national road is one of the best
The road disappears a few kilometers from Placer though and it's a wild ride all the way to Claver and Cantilan. If it weren't for the dust, the view from that coastal road would be breathtaking. The Japs had quite a few outposts there too. Will try to dig up some of my grandpa's old books and files when I go home to Surigao.
The road disappears a few kilometers from Placer though and it's a wild ride all the way to Claver and Cantilan. If it weren't for the dust, the view from that coastal road would be breathtaking. The Japs had quite a few outposts there too. Will try to dig up some of my grandpa's old books and files when I go home to Surigao.4-Eyes71

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Posted: Friday, March 12, 2004 - 12:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The American's did not do very well in the whole battle of Bataan. According to El Jefe, some US marine units actually ran away from their positions till the whole was plugged by Filipino soldiers. May they be Philippine Scouts or PA, they still died for their country and it does take quite a lot of courage to do what they did. The PA was under equipped and not ready for the japanese when WW2 started. Once again, you can blame this on the politicians and American policies to the Philippines. Despite lacking material and proper training, they fought with raw courage and better than the Americans in some point.
The problem with the US units in the Philippines was they were ill-prepared for war despite having better equipment. They regard the Philippines more as an R&R station (like Hawaii) that was why they were caught unawares.
MacArthur was aware of the situation which was why he came up with WPO-5. He was hoping they could hold out until reinforcements could arrive but it later turned out it's not forthcoming due to Washington's Europe First policy.
No doubt that the only US unit that performed well were the Philippine Scouts. If the American politicians hadn't pased that Recission Act in 1946, these vets would have been well off and happy now.
Bull

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Posted: Friday, March 12, 2004 - 03:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually it was done. It stars Benjamin Bratt as the Ranger commander who led the raid. Our very own Cesar Montano plays Juan Pajota, the guerilla leader. The movie was done entirely in Australia.
The big question now is, when will be released in theatres? Or would we catch it on HBO in the future?
Actually, the title is "The Great Raid." It does star Benjamin Bratt, even Joseph Fiennes and Connie Nielsen but it is not directed/produced by Spielberg(all accdg to IMDB.Com). Its status is post production and probably has a screening date for this year. But I doubt if the movie will showcase Filipinos and their role. Even the Filipino commander isn't played by a Filipino.
lonewolf

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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 02:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually, the title is "The Great Raid." It does star Benjamin Bratt, even Joseph Fiennes and Connie Nielsen but it is not directed/produced by Spielberg(all accdg to IMDB.Com). Its status is post production and probably has a screening date for this year. But I doubt if the movie will showcase Filipinos and their role. Even the Filipino commander isn't played by a Filipino.
Joseph Fiennes? Isn't that the guy who played Vassili Zaitsev in "Enemy at the Gates"?
Wish I could see that...Wala kse akong nakikitang movies masyado sa Pacific Theatre.....Lalo na sa Pilipinas.....
Bull

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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 03:32 AM UTC
Lonewolf,
Joseph Fiennes played the political officer Danilov, while Jude Law played Vassily the sniper. Fiennes also played "Romeo" in Shakespeare In Love. It's true that there are few movies regarding the Philippines' role in WW2. There have been attempts to make one but they all fail in getting producers/sponsors. IPMS-BAC has been approached at least twice to provide the models for digitalization in battle scenes, along with some technical assistance with regards to history(there was an attempt to make Villamor's life into a movie) but funding was always a problem. Maybe someday......
BTW, Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg are working on a "Band of Brothers" type of project, but this time on the Pacific Theater of Operations. Should be something to look out for.
Joseph Fiennes played the political officer Danilov, while Jude Law played Vassily the sniper. Fiennes also played "Romeo" in Shakespeare In Love. It's true that there are few movies regarding the Philippines' role in WW2. There have been attempts to make one but they all fail in getting producers/sponsors. IPMS-BAC has been approached at least twice to provide the models for digitalization in battle scenes, along with some technical assistance with regards to history(there was an attempt to make Villamor's life into a movie) but funding was always a problem. Maybe someday......
BTW, Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg are working on a "Band of Brothers" type of project, but this time on the Pacific Theater of Operations. Should be something to look out for.
lonewolf

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Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 06:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Lonewolf,
Joseph Fiennes played the political officer Danilov, while Jude Law played Vassily the sniper. Fiennes also played "Romeo" in Shakespeare In Love. It's true that there are few movies regarding the Philippines' role in WW2. There have been attempts to make one but they all fail in getting producers/sponsors. IPMS-BAC has been approached at least twice to provide the models for digitalization in battle scenes, along with some technical assistance with regards to history(there was an attempt to make Villamor's life into a movie) but funding was always a problem. Maybe someday......
BTW, Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg are working on a "Band of Brothers" type of project, but this time on the Pacific Theater of Operations. Should be something to look out for.![]()
WAA! Sorry! Nalito kse ako.... Jude Law...Jude Law...OK...Storing to database....
Then si...Ed Harris ng Apollo 13 yung German sniper, tama ba?
Hmm...BOB in the Pacific? I wish that'd be the 503d on Corregidor....^_^ That'll be nice....Can't wait to see it...
Bull

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Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 12:16 AM UTC
Yup that's Ed Harris. And I don't think they could have gotten a better actor to play the German sniper. Sya rin yung renegade general sa "The Rock". Another good role for him.
El-Jefe

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Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 06:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The problem with the US units in the Philippines was they were ill-prepared for war despite having better equipment. They regard the Philippines more as an R&R station (like Hawaii) that was why they were caught unawares.
MacArthur was aware of the situation which was why he came up with WPO-5. He was hoping they could hold out until reinforcements could arrive but it later turned out it's not forthcoming due to Washington's Europe First policy.
No doubt that the only US unit that performed well were the Philippine Scouts. If the American politicians hadn't pased that Recission Act in 1946, these vets would have been well off and happy now.
If you guys want to take this debate further... I suggest you attend one of the IPMS meetings and I will be glad to address the facts and dispell the myths about this topic.
By the way 4-eyes, the Philippines was not considered an R&R place. It was more than what you think....
El Jefe
lonewolf

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Posted: Monday, March 15, 2004 - 10:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Yup that's Ed Harris. And I don't think they could have gotten a better actor to play the German sniper. Sya rin yung renegade general sa "The Rock". Another good role for him.
I couldn't agree more....He was best suited for that German sniper role...
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