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The John Wayne problem
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 03:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A LITTLE ON THE LIGHTER SIDE, BUT STILL A WAR MOVIE.....AND ONE OF MY FAVORITES..ALSO A CLASSIC....DR STRANGELOVE !!!!!

DAGGER-1



Hear Hear - Dr. Strangelove is a kick!

Gunnie
Chief
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 04:01 AM UTC
Gallipoli, Lighthorsemen, Yup I forgot those..... How about the full length ANZACS and maybe Destroyer with Edward G. Robinson. Bridges of Toko Ri and Away All Boats too!
Folgore
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 04:51 AM UTC

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Gallipoli,Aces High,Light Horse,The Trench.All World War1
Arthur.



Light Horse is a good one. I saw it on History Television (a Canadian channel) once. Kind of like Gallipoli, except the Brits and Aussies actually win.

Nic
ladymodelbuilder
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 05:07 AM UTC
I gotta go for "Battle of Britian" with Micheal Caine....... #:-) #:-)
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 05:15 AM UTC

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...Not that critics know much either as they didn't even like Star Wars.




Jim,
Just imagine how boring life would be if critics would write 'SW is a great movie" or "you really should go see LOTR" or "Spiderman is superb" ! We would not be able to call them "critics" anymore, would we ?
Jan

penpen
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 05:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A LITTLE ON THE LIGHTER SIDE, BUT STILL A WAR MOVIE.....AND ONE OF MY FAVORITES..ALSO A CLASSIC....DR STRANGELOVE !!!!!



Hey dagger, great minds have just met ! Dr Lovamour is the french title of Dr Strangelove...
Eagle
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 05:35 AM UTC
You should see the movies with You Know Ho on any German Channell.......they translate the whole damn thing in German.........Have you ever heard him say:


Quoted Text

Hey Johny who is dein Kanone.....Ich liebe mein Gun.....



No.......they should have shot him far before WWII even started.

#:-)
ukgeoff
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 05:47 AM UTC
Here's a few of my favorite war moves

Ice Cold in Alex
Dunkirk
Guns of Navarone
Olangi120
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 05:56 AM UTC
These are some of my favorites Force ten from Navarone,Saving Private Ryan,The Normanydy landing part had awesome FX.Cross of Iron with James Coburn,Attack Force Z an Aussie Film and An Odd Angry Shot.
staff_Jim
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 07:36 AM UTC
Duh! I just realized without doubt what my favorite war movie is....

S T A R W A R S ! ! !

Hmm....you don't think John Wayne was secretly dressed up as a Stormtrooper do you?

JIM
Envar
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 07:45 AM UTC

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Hmm....you don't think John Wayne was secretly dressed up as a Stormtrooper do you?


Stormtrooper? Heck no! He was playing the floating little black ball torture droidy thingy! Who´s claiming that´s not great acting?????

Toni
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 09:38 AM UTC

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I guess Keanu Reeves will fall into the John Wayne category once he is dead too. The Matrix is still a kick but movie though. But then again I never really had a problem watching movies with John Wayne. What is so bad about them exactly?

Also for the record "They Were Expendible" is generally near the top of most Best War Movie critics lists.

Jim

PS: Not that critics know much either as they didn't even like Star Wars.

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Quote:
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I guess Keanu Reeves will fall into the John Wayne category once he is dead too.

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Gawd - only one can hope - Keanu Reeves can't act his way outta a wet paper bag...


Jim, well said! The Matrix is one of the best movies ever, IMHO!
Gunnie, did you ever even watch The Matrix?

YodaMan
TreadHead
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 12:10 PM UTC
LOL.....O.K., I'll throw a stinger out there. Keanu was an acceptable actor in 'The Matrix' because everything was slooooooowed down enough so that he could keep up!

Tread. #:-)
TreadHead
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 12:12 PM UTC
It's not his fault if they always made him ride on the 'short' bus when he was a kid!

::::::::muffled laughter::::::::::::::
Spike9077
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 12:25 PM UTC
Does the John Wayne factor fall into true war movies? Either way Black Hawk Down is a great war movie. I don't even think that it really has a lead role. It didn't have just one guy saving the day but many differnet soldiers stepping up to the occasion to be heroes. There's even a line at the end of the movie: "Nobody asks to be a hero, it just sometimes turns out that way." I wish more war movies displayed this.

Mark
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 10:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jim, well said! The Matrix is one of the best movies ever, IMHO!
Gunnie, did you ever even watch The Matrix?



Of course I watched "The Matrix" - but it wasn't great because of Keanu Reeves' sterling (cough) acting ability. Heck - not even Carrie Ann Moss and Larry Fishburn could out act the SFX. SFX is what made "The Matrix" great.

Gunnie
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 10:26 PM UTC

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LOL.....O.K., I'll throw a stinger out there. Keanu was an acceptable actor in 'The Matrix' because everything was slooooooowed down enough so that he could keep up!

Tread. #:-)



See! At least someone else here actually watched "The Matrix"

Gunnie
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 10:44 PM UTC
there are also too many john waynes in reenacting,mostly on the allied side
staff_Jim
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:02 AM UTC
Hmm....well I am no fan of Keanu. I still laugh watching scenes from Speed. But...I thought the Matrix was one of his exception movies. Or better to say that the character was well written for his "style" of acting. Kind of like how Conan was a perfect role for Arnold. Or the terminator for that matter.

By the way since I started this I guess I am saying that sometimes I think we are overly critical of actors just because a.) they can't act as well as Al Pacino or Anthony Hopkins, or b.) because of this they have probably ruined many a movie that could have been much better. Which is kind of how I felt about Star Wars Episode I and II. If only a better Anakin had filed the role.

My point above being that even though Arnold, John, and Keanu have starred in some stinkers, they have also starred in some of the most popular movies of all time. And for that they deserve some credit and respect.

Jim
penpen
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:19 AM UTC
As Jim has already started with SF, I'll start with anime SF : "Macross" (also called robotech).
The person were not talking about certainly ain't in that one !
GunTruck
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:54 AM UTC

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As Jim has already started with SF, I'll start with anime SF : "Macross" (also called robotech).
The person were not talking about certainly ain't in that one !



Thank goodness! I really like Robotech/Macross too - even through all the odd convolutions the story takes in different releases. I'm a fan of Macross Plus...

Gunnie
GunTruck
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 01:14 AM UTC

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Hmm....well I am no fan of Keanu. I still laugh watching scenes from Speed. But...I thought the Matrix was one of his exception movies. Or better to say that the character was well written for his "style" of acting. Kind of like how Conan was a perfect role for Arnold. Or the terminator for that matter.

By the way since I started this I guess I am saying that sometimes I think we are overly critical of actors just because a.) they can't act as well as Al Pacino or Anthony Hopkins, or b.) because of this they have probably ruined many a movie that could have been much better. Which is kind of how I felt about Star Wars Episode I and II. If only a better Anakin had filed the role.

My point above being that even though Arnold, John, and Keanu have starred in some stinkers, they have also starred in some of the most popular movies of all time. And for that they deserve some credit and respect.

Jim



Agreed there - but I don't think I'm overly critical of Keanu - I could get considerably worse critizing him. It isn't a respect factor problem - he is respected for his work - though not lauded. I've watched his movies - and I do have "Speed" on video at home. I liked him in "The Devil's Advocate" and will always like "Bill & Ted".

However, just because a movie is commercially popular - a great actor it does not make. A great actor is a persona that is believable and enjoyable regardless of the vehicle put around them in a movie. An actor like Jack Nicholson can walk out on a stage and simply lift his eyebrow - that gesture carries the same weight as 1000 words. Al Pacino is in that class too, and so is Sir Anthony Hopkins, Morgan Freeman, and Sean Connery to name a precious few. Denzel Washington is not. As popular as Samuel L. Jackson is - he's not in that class either - yet.

Sylvester Stallone was massively successful commercially with great movies like "Rocky" and "Rambo", but had stinkers like "Driven" - he can act, but he's not in the above class either. "The Matrix" and it's sequels will be great for Keanu - and great for the fans to watch too - but I'm certainly not waiting impatiently for their release. If a different lead was cast, however like you pointed out with the role of Anakin Skywalker, I'm sure I'd feel differently. It is a cool part to play.

As wild as the original "Batman" was - notice how Jack Nicholson's portayal of "The Joker" rose above the visuals, SFX, music, and everything else including the rest of the cast?

"Alien" as groundbreaking a movie that it was (and still is after all this time) had a cast that was stronger and more compelling than the amazing creature SFX - that was the star. That brilliant casting continued on into "Aliens" - and even the Colonial Marines held their own against bigger alien SFX. None of these actors are considered in the same light as an Al Pacino, but were solid character actors and performers.

With all the money and SFX backing "The Matrix" - I don't feel it compares with these three examples - regardless of the commercial results. Heck - I like "Ghostbusters" better!

Gunnie
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 01:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As Jim has already started with SF, I'll start with anime SF : "Macross" (also called robotech).
The person were not talking about certainly ain't in that one !


YEAH BUT YOU CANT FIND ANYTHING MUCH ELSE THAT IS EQUILVILENT TO ROBOTECH IN THE VIDEO DEPTS UNLESS YOIU COUNT GUNDAM, WHICH I DONT
I''VE SEEN OTHERS ON LATE NIGHT T.V. THAT ARE FAR BETTER THAN GUNDAM WING, LIKE BATTLE FOR MOON BASE ALPHA, ETC, ETC, BUT CANT SEEM TO FIND ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN THE VIDEO STORES. MUST I GO TO JAPAN TO GET SOME SATISFACTION??
DAGGER-1
GunTruck
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 02:16 AM UTC
Dagger-1 - have you seen "Final Fantasy"? I think you'll like that one - stunning CG work!

Gunnie
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 03:23 AM UTC
Gunnie: I'm not certain, It sounds familiar, Can you give a few more details??

DAGGER-1