Howdy Viper,

Many thx for the 'insider' input. Helps to understand it a little better. But unfortunately the words 'smart' and 'business' form an oxymoron of their own the majority of the time. I used to think that most people in business for themselves would have to be, by necessity, smart in business. Unfortunately, the opposite tends to be the trend in practice.

Tread.

Here in Barrie Ontario we effectively have 3 hobby shops, only two which carry any selection of plastic kits. Toronto is only 1 hr south and has some excellent shops. But there is something so nice about walking into the local store (Ideal Hobbies) and talking models with Dave. The store will order things you want and if you can't wait a short trip south to Toronto and its delights will normally put your bank account into free fall !!

Darryl

Yes you would think that most people would have to be this way in order to be in business for themsleves....and some people are only in it for the money...and will take you for all your pennies.

I find myself in the middle....yes I want to make money....other wise I would be just pouring my savings down a hole, but at the same time I want to create an environment that people will be happy to come to...cause they know that they are going to get a fair deal, and not taken for their wallets. For the time being when I first get open, I will probably follow somewhat closely to MSRP...until I get a feel for things...but I know that even following MSRP...I will probably be a little cheaper than the other LSH here in town, which I am sure no one will mind.

I am lucky in that we have a great LHS here in Houston: Hobby Island. David the owner runs a friendly shop and prices most of his kits a little below the MSRP. Plus he gives the members of the local armor club and the local IPMS, a 10% discount. This puts his prices into the same general range as the internet shops so that I find it isn't generally worth it to order on line. In addition I want to support him as he provides a meeting place for the armor club and runs a friendly shop focused on customer service: he'll get what you want if it is available.

my local shops the same I think you can do a fine blance between supporting your local shop and buying off the net I think my dragon/Tamiya kits will come from the far east if I need them but the likes of trumpeter italeri ect its cheaper for me to buy at the shoip they will also get me stuffin from hannants ect and give me 10% off eveything aprt from 2nd hand kits it's because they are friendly ect that I go back if it was just some annoying little fart behind the counter in a retail park I'd feel no loyalty to them my model shop just won
model shop of the year by http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk they have fitted a room so kids can play leaving you in peace to look at kits if you have kids. hope you do well viper29_ca from what I've read you know what your doing and if I ever get the chance to pop over I'll pay you a vist

We should all remember to go home with who brought us to the dance. I'll spend extra bucks at the local hobby store so there's a place I can hop to when I need this or that in a hurry.
As to the complaints about them charging top dollar, ther's two sides to that. One, as a business owner I know the cost of retail rent, insurance, etc., etc. No matter how much you charge, if you run an efficient business and you don't make a profit, you're not charging enough. On the other hand, in a free market ,if the retail store charges too much, market forces take over and another Mom and Pop bites the dust.
Only women can tell what it is like to have a baby. Only people that have owned a small business can really tell you what it like to do that. Employee issues, "shrinkage" (theft by inside people or customers), zoning related costs...on and on.
Do what your wallet and conscience dictates regarding patronizing your local stores. I will get off my soap box now. Thank you.

Sealhead (Kansas Sinflower) AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNER!!

We only have two shops of any real size here, and one seems to be on the way into a down-hill slide. A lot of business,ergo money, lost to customers buying on internet.

Howdy fellas,

to viper:
From your comments it really sounds like you're starting this thing with the proper atttude (just wish I was one of your patrons ). So I DO wish you the very best. And if I may be so bold, maybe the participants in this thread should also think about giving you suggestions for success as well as venting on the pro's and con's of the modeling world. (myself included ).

to Sealhead:
I believe through both practice and investment of my hard-earned dollars I have shown I support my LHS, even when that HS shows me no gratitude for my patronage.
And as far as understanding what it's like to own your own business. I have owned my 'own' business in different forms for the past (almost) 30 years!! And no, this wasn't through some over inflated idea of the use of an MBA, it was through the school of 'hard-knocks'. In the first place, 'business' interaction between people is easy, it's a natural extension of communal behaviour. Where it requires any synapse's is in the marketing and accounting end of interchange. Again, to my mind, not hard. To address the former, just listen to what the people want, and for the latter, get a calculator and read the results! (and that means NO fudging ).

To expand further on my LHS's failure to address the 'people' and what they have to say to them as a Retailer. They used to have meetings there for both the armour guys and the ship modeler's, as well as the sci-fi builders. Once a month for each, people would show up and show off what they were working on at the time, get pointers, share tips and techniques, and generally BS about modeling and 'life' in general. They even used that time to welcome both re-entering and new modelers to the fold........No longer. They used to sponsor several modeling contest's each year, for the different genre's of modelers out there. Prizes (inexpensive ribbons) were given out to the winners and overall 'fun' was had by everone!...........No longer. Every year (and twice a year at that) they would participate in a 'modeling seminar' at the local twice yearly Star Con Convention (the Trekkie thing). where they would give pointers, show different modeling techniques or products and answer questions from the crowd. It was a fun weekend for all...........No longer. They used to offer a 10% discount to those armour, ship, etc clubs that participated in the meetings during normal business days...................No longer.(now it's JUST for IPMS membership) And, finally, they used to have a great Yearly Sale where everything in the store (just about) was marked down 30%. It was a decent sized event for most patrons of the store. In fact I learned early on to arrive at the store prior to it's opening that weekend to make sure I got the 'goodies' I had my eye on because other's who had been attending the sale previous years before me did that very same thing (ya live, ya learn)...............No longer is it 30%. This past year it was only 20% for the first time. (and I noticed a decent decline in the numbers of attendees)

So I don't 'ramble on' anymore, I'll just say this: I think they're shooting themselves in the foot!


Tread.
(I'll shut-up now.)

I try to support my local shops, however, they rarely carry ANY of the kits I'm looking for or interested in. The cement and paints are overpriced as well. Unfortunately my best bet is to order over the net and be patient for everything to arrive.

Dear General,
You outrank me and out-talent me. But, I was only trying to help other modelers get a "gut" feeling of how hard it is for the Mom's and Pop's today. My concern is not just having a local place to zip to when I need something in a hurry. Fortunately, I have several model stores, Hobby Lobbys and Michaels and art stores all around me as I live in the county with the highest shopping center per capita in the country.
My concern is what happens when Office Max and Office Depot have run every small office supply place out of business. Same for Lowe's and Home Depot for tools and hardware, etc. etc. Then the prices go up.
Free enterprise and the Internet were made for each other. It allows the little guy a "niche" for their modeling accessories or things like that. I buy from the Internet as well. I was just referring to some balance. Retail has higher fixed costs and sees the squeeze between the giant retail box stores and the low overhead Internet sources. So, I spread it around.
Good topic.

Sealhead (Kansas Sunflower)

Howdy Sealhead,

No worries mate! I agree with you. I am in the HomeBuilding/Construction business, and the almost complete domination of the material supply industry by Home Depot, and the ousting of Payless Cashways, Hugh M. Woods, Builder's Square, Home Base, etc. has caused an increase in the price of goods, and non-existent competitive pricing!
So, we see eye-to-eye on that matter.
Your input is well thought out, and obviously heartfelt.

Tread.

hi all
i support my LHS for the same reasons that most of you do plus I enjoy the abuse i get when i walk in the door.They're a helpful bunch in there and will get almost anything for you if they can.I only use Ebay for oop kits etc.
All the best
Pete

In reality...the Interent model companies probably don't have it easier, or cheaper, when you start to think that they need a larger warehouse to store a larger inventory, and all this is going to cost more for rent, insurance, extra stock on hand, more employees, etc, etc

The only thing they have going for them is that they would buy in larger quantities, which they would probably get deals from the wholesalers...thus they can offer a lower retail than a hobby shop could.

I've got to drive 40+ miles down out of the mountains to go the BIG CITY to the ONE HobbyTown USA shop there if I want to actually see what I'm thinking about buying.

And that big city is almost 500,000 folks.......with only ONE decent hobbyshop!?!

So I try to support HobbyTown, as they have a pretty good stock of all types and scales of kits as well as paint, glue and air brush stuff.

The problem is, it becomes a jam packed day trying to fit in all errands AND the hobbyshop!

So I order stuff online fairly often, UPS and FEDEX know how to find me and Home Depot and Lowes deliver!!

500000????? and they only have one hobby shop? LOL...we have like 1/10th that population, and I will be opening the 2nd hobby shop in my home town....mind you there is probably another 50000 people within a 20min drive of here. That and the guy that runs the other shop never brings anything new in, and all the model guys that I know, and the train guys, and the RC guys...have pretty much had it with him. So the market is ripe for the picking.

I have to admit - I buy all of my kits off of Ebay. The only hobby shop within 40 miles of me has only had 1 armor kit sitting on the shelf for the last 6 months and the owner has no intentions of getting any others. I do, however, buy all of my paints, brushes, etc... from him. I have been bookmarking some websites for future purchases, right now I'm looking for the cheapest place to buy a M88A1 kit, to me that is the Holy Grail of armor!

Dear Viper,

Just check the price per 1000 square feet for prime retail space per year versus 1000 square feet of warehouse space anywhere in your town, or your backyard or outside the city limits, where regulations are less stringent.. In retail, its location, location, location. When Walgreens came to Kansas City, they set records for buying key corner, retail lots. If they had a store in mid-block and the corner became available, they would spend $1,000,000 to buy out their existing lease. That's how important location is in retail. You would freak at the prices.
So, before you add in additional costs that the retailer has over a warehouse operation, everything from cleaning big windows, to (urggh) insurance, to taxes, they are already at a big disadvantage to the warehouse.
Many smallbusiness owners do not always have the talent and creativity to do the right thing. Offering token discounts to local modeling clubs, having show and tell, having workshops, etc. are all "good" things. But, also remember, the Mom and Pop is just that. They are already working 70-80 hours a week and exhaustion may over-ride their enthusiasm more activities that take more hours.
A warehouse, or Internet, operation can " batch" their orders in the evening, after the owner comes home from his day job. They don't have to cater to the hours that retail customers want, like 7 days a week and open every evening. They don't need display square footage or wide aisles and bright lighting.
No knock on them. I believe in opportunitiy. But, when I and others have gone into our own businesses, we are usually flabergasted at costs we never expected. Good luck to the LHS's and good luck to the Internet providers.

Sealhead (Kansas Sunflower)