thanks
DJ
History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Hosted by Frank Amato
What do we now do with Saddam?
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 01:43 PM UTC
Glorious news for the Nation and the world in the capture of Saddam Hussein. Question who should do what with him?
thanks
DJ
thanks
DJ
sniper
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 1,065 Posts
KitMaker Network: 497 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 02:10 PM UTC
After much 'questioning' he has to be turned over to the Iraqis and then taken care of by Iraqi justice. After all, it was hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that he killed.
If he were to be tried like our friend in Kosovo, there would be no death penalty available. I don't think that would be a wise idea.
When we get Osama, I'd like to see him here. Maybe in New York...
Steve
If he were to be tried like our friend in Kosovo, there would be no death penalty available. I don't think that would be a wise idea.
When we get Osama, I'd like to see him here. Maybe in New York...
Steve
blaster76
Member Since: September 15, 2002
entire network: 8,985 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,270 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 04:42 PM UTC
I think he should be tried by the Iraqi people. His worst crimes are against them. Oh, I hope someone doesn't pull your posting about this occurence as they did mine. Some events are too momentous and should transcend the current events restrictions.
chip250
Member Since: September 01, 2002
entire network: 1,864 Posts
KitMaker Network: 606 Posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 06:12 PM UTC
Throw him a homecoming party at the U.S. Supreme courthouse.
~Chip :-)
~Chip :-)
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 15, 2003 - 12:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
After much 'questioning' he has to be turned over to the Iraqis and then taken care of by Iraqi justice. After all, it was hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that he killed.
If he were to be tried like our friend in Kosovo, there would be no death penalty available. I don't think that would be a wise idea.
When we get Osama, I'd like to see him here. Maybe in New York...
Steve
Right at Ground Zero.
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 15, 2003 - 12:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think he should be tried by the Iraqi people. His worst crimes are against them. Oh, I hope someone doesn't pull your posting about this occurence as they did mine. Some events are too momentous and should transcend the current events restrictions.
Totally agree. Lord Blaster.
This IS HISTORY! 
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 15, 2003 - 07:36 AM UTC
Friends--- I did not see anyone suggest/recommend that we did a Nurenburg style trial (ie International Courts)? Is this an option?
DJ
DJ
matt
Campaigns AdministratorMember Since: February 28, 2002
entire network: 5,957 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,626 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 15, 2003 - 08:00 AM UTC
I keep Hearing Military Tribunal............
sniper
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 1,065 Posts
KitMaker Network: 497 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 15, 2003 - 08:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Friends--- I did not see anyone suggest/recommend that we did a Nurenburg style trial (ie International Courts)? Is this an option?
DJ
I don't see this as an option due to the way the war was conducted. We all know that major players 'opposed' the war, so it is hard for me to imagine Saddam being turned over to the UN for some sort of international tribunal.
Personally, I don't think either the U.S. or the Iraqis want to see a 'life' sentance. I'm sure the Iraqis want his blood.
The UN does not have a death penalty.
Remember, he is also accused of trying to assasinate a U.S. President. Because of politics, this may not be mentioned. I'm sure it is on the current President's mind though...
Steve
mlb63
Member Since: October 22, 2003
entire network: 355 Posts
KitMaker Network: 199 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 15, 2003 - 09:05 AM UTC
let the Kurds try him as for Osama simple double tap dont waste money on a trial. 
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 12:24 AM UTC
Does anyone have any thoughts about bringing him before a military tribunal?
jimbrae
Member Since: April 23, 2003
entire network: 12,927 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,060 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 12:38 AM UTC
Military tribunals are rarely used. In this case, it would not be correct either. Usually a military tribunal would be convened if the security situation dictated it, in this case, the Coalition are more than capable of keeping him secure until a proper civilian court can be convened. There is simply no doubt in my mind, he has to be tried by a tribunal in Iraq, primarily the victims of his genocide were Iraqi citizens, an international court would not be correct in this case. It would also be useful to remind some on this thread, that there is a Coalition operating. The majority of troops are certainly U.S. however other countries are participating in an active manner. Primarily the fate of Saddam will be decided by Iraqis, symbolically this is important to demonstrate to the rest of the world that his trial will not be construed as simply 'revenge'....Jim 
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 01:18 AM UTC
Just another thought, would the trial be aired globally? Would it be turned into a media frenzy? Not by the State's fault, but rather the Medias.
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 03:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just another thought, would the trial be aired globally? Would it be turned into a media frenzy? Not by the State's fault, but rather the Medias.
Dave--it will make the "OJ" Trial look like small potatoes. Unless they conduct the trial on the polar ice cap, I can not envision this being anything but the trial of the century......with a predictable outcome. How do you ensure safety regardless of venue?
SS-74
Member Since: May 13, 2002
entire network: 3,271 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 04:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextJust another thought, would the trial be aired globally? Would it be turned into a media frenzy? Not by the State's fault, but rather the Medias.
Dave--it will make the "OJ" Trial look like small potatoes. Unless they conduct the trial on the polar ice cap, I can not envision this being anything but the trial of the century......with a predictable outcome. How do you ensure safety regardless of venue?
Lord DJ,
You are WRONG.
The soon to be trial of Laden will be the trial of the century, this is just a warm up. 
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 06:31 AM UTC
Dave--brings up a good point. Here's a follow-up, will we capture Bin Laden alive? If so, what will we do withn him? Ship him to Gitmo?
DJ
DJ
keenan
Member Since: October 16, 2002
entire network: 5,272 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,192 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 06:40 AM UTC
Military historian John Keegan has some thoughts on the subject over at the Daily Telegraph, if anyone is interested. Highly recommended for the historical perspective.
Link below,
Shaun
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/12/15/do1591.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/12/15/ixopinion.html
Link below,
Shaun
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/12/15/do1591.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/12/15/ixopinion.html
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 08:25 AM UTC
Shaun--- very interesting piece which I commend to each of our fellow participants. Waht about Bin Laden? Is he going to be caught? What do we do with him?
DJ
DJ
sniper
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 1,065 Posts
KitMaker Network: 497 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 08:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Shaun--- very interesting piece which I commend to each of our fellow participants. Waht about Bin Laden? Is he going to be caught? What do we do with him?
DJ
Are we 100% certain he is alive?
If he is captured, unlike Saddam he has no real country that he is identified with. I mean he's a Saudi, fought in Afghanistan, maybe is now in Pakistan...
I think he'd have to be brought on U.S. soil and then delt with.
Steve
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 12:38 AM UTC
Steve--there is a truly interesting point -- "bring him to US soil." Where would you try him?
DJ
DJ
Ranger74
Member Since: April 04, 2002
entire network: 1,290 Posts
KitMaker Network: 480 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 11:35 AM UTC
I would bring neither Saddam not bin Laden to US soil - it invites terrorist acts on our soil more than any other act. I would give Saddam to the Iraqi people and let them do as they wish. Personally, I say nail his feet to a pedestal and let the Iraqi people beat him with teh soles of their shoes!!!!
Shaun - Thanks for the history lesson
Shaun - Thanks for the history lesson
warlock0322
Member Since: January 13, 2003
entire network: 1,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 152 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 11:12 PM UTC
The question is a very very ticky one. My first reaction would be to give him to the Iraqi People and let them deal with him. Which would more than likely produce a Death Sentence which I am saying now is what he deserves, but here is the rub.
If that is done will this not make him a Martyr in his country and to his diehard faithful followers. If he is kept alive and shown living in the west with "The infidels" accepting our food, medical care, and giving us information may have a more significant message to his followers and others out there. I.E Bin Laden.
I think they should put him on trial with the Iraqi Counsel as the lead with members of the coalition sitting on the board with them. Allow the Iraqi counsel to run the procedings and the other members be there for guidance or advice. Let's face it his crimes are against the Iraqi People primarily , but also the Kuwatis (which the country was ravaged) and Isreali's.( Afterall he did take pop shots at them) during GW1.
I think the best ones to pass sentence on him are the ones in the region. They would know how to punish him in such a way that it would not Martyr him but shame him in the eyes of his followers.
As for Bin Laden. I think he is a diiferent animal. His crimes are mainly aimed at the American people. WTC, Uss Cole et.al. He should be given to us to deal with as we see fit, but the same problems would exist about being a Martyr as with Saddam.
If that is done will this not make him a Martyr in his country and to his diehard faithful followers. If he is kept alive and shown living in the west with "The infidels" accepting our food, medical care, and giving us information may have a more significant message to his followers and others out there. I.E Bin Laden.
I think they should put him on trial with the Iraqi Counsel as the lead with members of the coalition sitting on the board with them. Allow the Iraqi counsel to run the procedings and the other members be there for guidance or advice. Let's face it his crimes are against the Iraqi People primarily , but also the Kuwatis (which the country was ravaged) and Isreali's.( Afterall he did take pop shots at them) during GW1.
I think the best ones to pass sentence on him are the ones in the region. They would know how to punish him in such a way that it would not Martyr him but shame him in the eyes of his followers.
As for Bin Laden. I think he is a diiferent animal. His crimes are mainly aimed at the American people. WTC, Uss Cole et.al. He should be given to us to deal with as we see fit, but the same problems would exist about being a Martyr as with Saddam.
210cav
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 01:00 AM UTC
War-- there is the dilemma! We have to be very careful not to create an heroic figure in death out of a criminal in life. If you throw him in jail for life then everytime one of his followers wants something they will hold something/someone hostage until he gets released. So, you try him under the laws of the region, by the people in the region to suffer any fate they assign to him. I think inevitably this will end with only one conclusion.
DJ.
DJ.
blaster76
Member Since: September 15, 2002
entire network: 8,985 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,270 Posts
Posted: Friday, December 19, 2003 - 06:07 PM UTC
I think if his own people try him and assuming he is executed, he is far less likely to be a martyr. If the "infidels" do it, it is guarenteed he will become a martyr. As to Osama...don't think he'll make it out alive. He's probably got a small entourage with him and they all will fight to the death.
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 KitMaker Network and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.