_GOTOBOTTOM
Tools & Supplies
Discussions on the latest and greatest tools, glues, and gadgets.
Hosted by Matt Leese
Best Acrylics and Why
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:18 AM UTC
I'm currently using Tamiya acryls(yes I know they aren't true acrylics), but dislike the limitations on bottled colors. I'm hoping some of you can steer me towards acrylics, with a wider range of color that provide a nice even coat. This will be for running through my ab.
fhvn4d
#159
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Member Since: April 07, 2008
entire network: 803 Posts
KitMaker Network: 132 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:38 AM UTC
I just started messing around with Vallejo model color and model air and sofar I have nothing but positive things to say about them. I pick them up from http://www.scalehobbyist.com/
for about 2 dollars and change. one day shipping and good prices. The air goes on either straight from the bottle or thinned with some water. The model color goes straight on with a brush and leaves no brush marks. It can be thinned the same way. I used a hair drier to quick dry some items as a test and was able to repaint in an hour!
FAUST
#130
Visit this Community
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Member Since: June 07, 2002
entire network: 8,797 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,186 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:57 AM UTC
Well not really an answer that you are looking for since you are thinking of switching to other brands but for me Tamiya is still lonely at the top when it comes to airbrushable paint.
It mixes perfectly with their own thinner. add a few drops of X22 clear and you get a really smooth and even coat of paint. It cleans easily. And the lack of colors can be catched up by mixing your own color. I have never in my life sprayed a Tamiya color directly out of the bottle. It was Always a mix. Bought a bunch of small glass jars with a plastic screw on lid specially for that purpose. That way I have them premixed with thinner as well... suck up with eye dropper put in cup and spray away.

I will probably be a minority here when it comes to Vallejo since I think the stuff is utter Rubbish. Aside from the problems I had with thinning it and constantly clogging up my AB's. Even the model air isn't as fantastic as they say. I also don't like the fragility of the paintcoat.

With Tamiya I never had those problems... Literally never
russamotto
Visit this Community
Utah, United States
Member Since: December 14, 2007
entire network: 3,389 Posts
KitMaker Network: 625 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 11:17 AM UTC
I use Model Master acrylic paints because they have little to no odor. Not as easy to clean up as Tamiya, but still not too bad-isopropyl alcohol will remove any gunked up paint quickly. Badger Modelflex paints airbrush easily, but need their extender as they dry very quickly. They have a broad range of naval and railroad paints, but not as wide a range of armor. No odor at all, and they clean up with alcohol as well. Testors is available at the local Hobby Town. Badger is available online.
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
Visit this Community
Tennessee, United States
Member Since: December 21, 2002
entire network: 7,772 Posts
KitMaker Network: 802 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 12:05 PM UTC
My personal experience is that Polly Scale is the best, period! Coverage is excellent; adherence is excellent; airbrushing is outstanding; pigments are finely ground; no bad smell; cuts well with water; cleaning airbrushes is a snap with common household cleaners (Simple Green!); a bunch of colors and bigger bottles.

Here's a comparison I made between P.S., M.M. and Tamiya: https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/53417&page=1

Sadly, Testors - in a bad biased business mistake IMHO - threw P.S. under the bus and discontinued it for their own Model Master brand so get Polly Scale while you can.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 12:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well not really an answer that you are looking for since you are thinking of switching to other brands but for me Tamiya is still lonely at the top when it comes to airbrushable paint.
It mixes perfectly with their own thinner. add a few drops of X22 clear and you get a really smooth and even coat of paint. It cleans easily. And the lack of colors can be catched up by mixing your own color. I have never in my life sprayed a Tamiya color directly out of the bottle. It was Always a mix. Bought a bunch of small glass jars with a plastic screw on lid specially for that purpose. That way I have them premixed with thinner as well... suck up with eye dropper put in cup and spray away.

I will probably be a minority here when it comes to Vallejo since I think the stuff is utter Rubbish. Aside from the problems I had with thinning it and constantly clogging up my AB's. Even the model air isn't as fantastic as they say. I also don't like the fragility of the paintcoat.

With Tamiya I never had those problems... Literally never



My problem, with Tamiya, is that I can never achieve the same mix ratios. I have heard that Vallejo can be quite a mess. I've heard of paint cracking and serious problems with their clear coats.

[quote}My personal experience is that Polly Scale is the best, period! Coverage is excellent; adherence is excellent; airbrushing is outstanding; pigments are finely ground; no bad smell; cuts well with water; cleaning airbrushes is a snap with common household cleaners (Simple Green!); a bunch of colors and bigger bottles.

Sadly, Testors - in a bad biased business mistake IMHO - threw P.S. under the bus and discontinued it for their own Model Master brand so get Polly Scale while you can.[/quote]

I'm finding it difficult to source Polly Scale. I have a few sources, but they are running out fast.

Hoping for more opinions, on this one. I am also considering LifeColor, Citadel, and Italeri. The cost and paint matching are keeping me away from Citadel. I have heard good things about their line and have previous experience brush painting. But, I'm not sure that makes up for the cons I listed.
mmeier
Visit this Community
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Member Since: October 22, 2008
entire network: 1,280 Posts
KitMaker Network: 213 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 01:20 PM UTC
Revell Aqua have been a "hit and miss" when it comes to airbrushing. The same mix that works for one color fails for another. They are good, cheap and (in germany) easy to get brush paints but for airbrushing I recently came back to Tamiya. Price/Capability wise and useability wise (with XF-20 thinner) they are a charm to use with good tolerances in the mix ratio and all

Valleyo and their close siblings/OEM versions are nice for brushing but do not "bite" very well. Washing and a fine undercoat help but until they are sealed they scrub off easily.
russamotto
Visit this Community
Utah, United States
Member Since: December 14, 2007
entire network: 3,389 Posts
KitMaker Network: 625 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 02:39 PM UTC
Does PollyScale still have the railroad line? Many of the colors can be substituted for armor colors. It is just hard to find anyone who has it in stock.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 02:45 PM UTC
It is really hit and miss, with Polly Scale. I don't want to run up my shipping bill. I can find one or two colors, from one supplier but never all the colors. The railroad colors are easier to find.
Grauwolf
#084
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Member Since: September 14, 2005
entire network: 2,485 Posts
KitMaker Network: 480 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 02:59 PM UTC
Hi Russ,


Quoted Text

Does PollyScale still have the railroad line?



The whole Pollyscale line is out....RR, Military etc.

BIG MISTAKE on Testors' part as it is next to Tamiya, a top paint available.

Last I heard, the same paints are supposed to be available
under the Testor label....but what does this really mean?

Cheers,
Joe
Grauwolf
#084
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Member Since: September 14, 2005
entire network: 2,485 Posts
KitMaker Network: 480 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 03:05 PM UTC
Matt,

Quoted Text

My problem, with Tamiya, is that I can never achieve the same mix ratios.



I don't get this part?
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 11:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Matt,

Quoted Text

My problem, with Tamiya, is that I can never achieve the same mix ratios.



I don't get this part?



I can't match the color. I try to mix enough for two coats, but it is as likely to dry in the mixing bottle or color cup. I try not to leave paint in the color cup for obvious reasons.
FAUST
#130
Visit this Community
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Member Since: June 07, 2002
entire network: 8,797 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,186 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 02:39 AM UTC
I wonder how and with what you thin your paint then... I have glass jars with mixes that I made years ago and they are still as good as the day I mixed them. Got a jar with silver mix that I use every now and then mixed it years ago and I know that when I need it I just need to shake the jar and it is good to go.
Littorio
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Member Since: September 15, 2004
entire network: 4,728 Posts
KitMaker Network: 279 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 03:24 AM UTC
Lifecolor I find to be a good paint for brush and airbrush, thin down a bit with water for airbrushing but like Vallejo must be used over an undercoat/primer.
Also Vallejo as same reasons as Lifecolor.

Revell Aquacolor, best water based metallic paints I've found still need to thin some but great.

Lastly if you can find them like others have already said Polyscale.

As you can tell I don't stick to one brand I use what brand has the right colour for the job at hand, with all the above being water based if required they can be mixed.
viper29_ca
Visit this Community
New Brunswick, Canada
Member Since: October 18, 2002
entire network: 2,247 Posts
KitMaker Network: 718 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 04:23 AM UTC
Vallejo, easy to use, easy to clean up, a true acrylic unlike some others that only claim to be acrylic (Tamiya, Gunze, etc)

Having said that, there are some things you have to do when using Vallejo paint, but each paint line has their quirks that you have to get used to.

First off, your parts need to be clean and free of any release mold, oil from you hands, etc, etc.

Second, need to use a good primer, and Vallejo primer is very good, plus they have the colored primers so it saves you a step or 2 vs using grey, black or white and then having to put a color coat over it. Building a US Sherman, prime it with Vallejo US Olive Drab primer...

As far as thinning their paints, about a year or so ago, Vallejo reformulated their airbrush thinner. While the old stuff worked OK, there was a steep learning curve to it. The new stuff, 3 parts thinner to 1 part Model Color paint and Bob's your uncle. Ditto with the Model Air, while you don't need to thin it, mixing a small amount with it, will cut the surface tension of the paint, which will make it flow better, a well it has a retarder built in, so helps with tip dry, approx. 1 part AB thinner to 5 parts Model Air paint should do, maybe a hair more thinner if you are shooting their metallics, which I find are a hair thicker than the rest of their Model Air colors.

Pretty simple and easy to use!

retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 09:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I wonder how and with what you thin your paint then... I have glass jars with mixes that I made years ago and they are still as good as the day I mixed them. Got a jar with silver mix that I use every now and then mixed it years ago and I know that when I need it I just need to shake the jar and it is good to go.



I use a few different jars. The one that has kept the longest is in an old pill bottle. That has been a few years. Next, is an old Testors bottle. What I normally keep them in are paint mixing bottles. They are glass with a plastic lid and foam gasket. After a few days, the paint has eaten away the gasket. This is true of acrylic paints. I assume that it mixes with the paint, as the paint itself turns into a rubbery disc.
FAUST
#130
Visit this Community
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Member Since: June 07, 2002
entire network: 8,797 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,186 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 10:04 AM UTC
Hmmm Weird... Do you have the same problem when you use an empty Tamiya Acrylic bottle? And what is your thinning medium?
Tojo72
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2006
entire network: 4,691 Posts
KitMaker Network: 668 Posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 01:30 AM UTC
I have used Lifecolor a couple of times,they have a large line,thin with regular tap water,spray and cover nicely.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2013 - 03:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hmmm Weird... Do you have the same problem when you use an empty Tamiya Acrylic bottle? And what is your thinning medium?


I use Tamiya acryl thinner and ipa. The one that has lasted the longest is an enamel, thinned with basic paint thinner. I do not have this problem with empty Tamiya bottles. However, I don't have an abundance of those either.
chumpo
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: August 30, 2010
entire network: 749 Posts
KitMaker Network: 225 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2013 - 01:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Matt,

Quoted Text

My problem, with Tamiya, is that I can never achieve the same mix ratios.



I don't get this part?


You could try weighing the mix , there are those small digital scales .
chumpo
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: August 30, 2010
entire network: 749 Posts
KitMaker Network: 225 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2013 - 02:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hmmm Weird... Do you have the same problem when you use an empty Tamiya Acrylic bottle? And what is your thinning medium?


I use Tamiya acryl thinner and ipa. The one that has lasted the longest is an enamel, thinned with basic paint thinner. I do not have this problem with empty Tamiya bottles. However, I don't have an abundance of those either.


The Tamiya bottles , the 10 ml size are not cheap the run 2 bucks and tax , but if you buy the X20A thinner in that size it cost 2 .25 in a pinch when I need a bottle to mix some paint I go that route .
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2013 - 02:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hmmm Weird... Do you have the same problem when you use an empty Tamiya Acrylic bottle? And what is your thinning medium?


I use Tamiya acryl thinner and ipa. The one that has lasted the longest is an enamel, thinned with basic paint thinner. I do not have this problem with empty Tamiya bottles. However, I don't have an abundance of those either.


The Tamiya bottles , the 10 ml size are not cheap the run 2 bucks and tax , but if you buy the X20A thinner in that size it cost 2 .25 in a pinch when I need a bottle to mix some paint I go that route .


I try to buy all of my supplies from my LHS. They don't restock very often. I guess I'll look for some better bottles online.
Grauwolf
#084
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Member Since: September 14, 2005
entire network: 2,485 Posts
KitMaker Network: 480 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2013 - 05:46 PM UTC
Matt,

Get to a drug store and buy some syringes.
These are graduated very finely in CCs for the most part.

Measure out the required ratios you wish to use to achieve
your paint mix and added thinner.

Ex: 20cc of XF 60 + 10cc XF62 + 5cc of XF68 + 20 cc of thinner.

This measured ratio will today, tomorrow or in 1 month give
you the exact same color mix.

And if your paint is drying out in the bottle, cut a square of
Saran Wrap or kling wrap, larger than that mouth of the bottle and
lay it over the mouth of the bottle and then screw on the cap.

This will give you extra seal and prolong the life of the paint
mix that is in the bottle.

Some modelers swear by this method of saving paint. I don't
use it myself as I have no issues with paint drying out on me.

The above should resolve the issues you are having with paint.

Cheers,
Joe
Grauwolf
#084
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Member Since: September 14, 2005
entire network: 2,485 Posts
KitMaker Network: 480 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2013 - 07:54 PM UTC
Disregard the "kling wrap" as this is not what I meant.

Just plain "Saran Wrap"...the sandwich wrap stuff
or cling wrap.....

as "kling wrap" is completely something else.


Cheers,
Joe
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Member Since: June 29, 2009
entire network: 11,610 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3,657 Posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2013 - 09:51 PM UTC
I'm thinking that I will buy a few jars of the same MM acrylic color and empty them into a pill container. I will look into syringes.
 _GOTOTOP