Hey all, I just went to radio shack and picked up some PCB Etchant Solution for around $3.
I then took a sharpie permanent felt pen and drew out a simple pattern, following the directions on the bottle made my home photo etch. It was fast(20-30 min.)and easy, but most important it dosnt make a mess! Try it for yourself and see. Best of all it is cheap. (:-)
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E-Z home photo etch....And Cheap too
Matrix
Member Since: October 24, 2002
entire network: 528 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 12:24 PM UTC
BroAbrams
Member Since: October 02, 2002
entire network: 1,546 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 02:42 PM UTC
what did you use it on? Brass sheet? How thick, we want details! Inquiring minds want to know.:-)
Rob
Rob
Matrix
Member Since: October 24, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 05:17 PM UTC
Sorry about that I ment to put that in my post. I used brass sheet, I dont know the thickness but you can use any thickness you want....the thicker the material the longer etch time. The stuff i used was fairly thin. It shoould work on copper sheeting as well because the eching stuff for circit boards which are a wafer board overlayed with copper sheet.
RotorHead67
Member Since: May 07, 2003
entire network: 1,174 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 06:23 PM UTC
TO ALL<
Yes this is an easy @ home task. The materials you need can be purchased at Radio Shack or your local photo shop. As to the thickness of sheet.....It is recommended
that you not exceed .015 . The reason for this is that the thicker the sheet the less defined the finished edge becomes. But you do need thicker material for double sided or 2D image
etching. Below are the products you need.
#1 PCB Etch solution
#2 Developer solution
#3 Photo neuytalizer or fixative
#4 Clear Mylar for the image negative
#5 Brass sheet multi pack from K&S
#6 1" high cookie sheet (for dunking the brass in solution)
And this item makes this process 10X easier.
#7 An overhead photo layout machine.
Then you can do all kinds of pieces and detail sets till your hearts content. All you need to do is prodeuce your own Dwgs or images.
Yes this is an easy @ home task. The materials you need can be purchased at Radio Shack or your local photo shop. As to the thickness of sheet.....It is recommended
that you not exceed .015 . The reason for this is that the thicker the sheet the less defined the finished edge becomes. But you do need thicker material for double sided or 2D image
etching. Below are the products you need.
#1 PCB Etch solution
#2 Developer solution
#3 Photo neuytalizer or fixative
#4 Clear Mylar for the image negative
#5 Brass sheet multi pack from K&S
#6 1" high cookie sheet (for dunking the brass in solution)
And this item makes this process 10X easier.
#7 An overhead photo layout machine.
Then you can do all kinds of pieces and detail sets till your hearts content. All you need to do is prodeuce your own Dwgs or images.
firemann816
Member Since: September 14, 2003
entire network: 790 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 06:23 PM UTC
Can you print a pattern to the sheet?
Like scan an image of a design, an insgnia for instance.
Print it to a clear laminate and "transfer" it to the sheet for those of us that cant draw very well?
Or you had a photo of something, and you want that shape
so the reference photo is scaled, printed, and somehow turned into the pattern on the sheet to be etched???
Anyway thanks for sharing the wisdom, clever.
Like scan an image of a design, an insgnia for instance.
Print it to a clear laminate and "transfer" it to the sheet for those of us that cant draw very well?
Or you had a photo of something, and you want that shape
so the reference photo is scaled, printed, and somehow turned into the pattern on the sheet to be etched???
Anyway thanks for sharing the wisdom, clever.
TrooperD
Member Since: November 04, 2003
entire network: 31 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 07:09 PM UTC
Very interesting,but can you get this stuff in the UK.There used to be an equivilant to Radio Shack that was called Tandy in Britain,but they closed shop.TIA...Dave 
GeneralFailure
Member Since: February 15, 2002
entire network: 2,289 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Very interesting,but can you get this stuff in the UK.There used to be an equivilant to Radio Shack that was called Tandy in Britain,but they closed shop.TIA...Dave
Same here in Belgium
But I'm sure this stuff is available in electronics specialist shops, worldwide.
Could someone who succesfully made his/her own PE's please post an illustrated article on this subject ? This is a hot issue that would interest plenty of scratchbuilders here ! I'm thinking of a step-by-step explanation on how to do it. "PE for dummies" ?
crossbow
Member Since: April 11, 2003
entire network: 1,387 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 02:31 AM UTC
This is weird 
.
For a couple of weeks now I've been fiddeling around with this. Since I used to make my own Pcb's for electronics projects, I tought to give it a try for plate trough etching.
So far I did tests with direct application of the design on the plate and by means of photosensitive laquer.
Also I've tests two types of metal: brass and copper plates.
I am testing different kinds of etching solutions.
Eventually I hope to find out the best/cheapest/easiest method for a modeller.
So far I've found that the photosensitive laquer gives the best defined design (and reproducible for both sides) on to the plate, and that copper plate gives a better result than brass.
Depending on the time I find to experiment, I will keep you all posted.
Kris
.For a couple of weeks now I've been fiddeling around with this. Since I used to make my own Pcb's for electronics projects, I tought to give it a try for plate trough etching.
So far I did tests with direct application of the design on the plate and by means of photosensitive laquer.
Also I've tests two types of metal: brass and copper plates.
I am testing different kinds of etching solutions.
Eventually I hope to find out the best/cheapest/easiest method for a modeller.
So far I've found that the photosensitive laquer gives the best defined design (and reproducible for both sides) on to the plate, and that copper plate gives a better result than brass.
Depending on the time I find to experiment, I will keep you all posted.
Kris
BroAbrams
Member Since: October 02, 2002
entire network: 1,546 Posts
KitMaker Network: 494 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 03:02 AM UTC
This Rocks!!! I have needed some PE stuff that doesn't come in the eduard set for the Abrams and now I might have a realistic way to do it.
Rob
Rob
crossbow
Member Since: April 11, 2003
entire network: 1,387 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 03:57 AM UTC
Rob,
What are the parts you are thinking of? maybe I can use as a base for my test and use it to make an article.
Kris
What are the parts you are thinking of? maybe I can use as a base for my test and use it to make an article.
Kris
BroAbrams
Member Since: October 02, 2002
entire network: 1,546 Posts
KitMaker Network: 494 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 06:27 AM UTC
Actually there are a number of brackets I will be needing in my abrams project. They wouldn't be anything easily described, since no one has ever done what I am doing. It is more like stuff I will have to come up with as I go along. (FYI I am doing a complete interior for an Abrams in 1/35th scale, only one or two othe modelers have even come close, but no one has done a complete interior)
Rob
Rob
RotorHead67
Member Since: May 07, 2003
entire network: 1,174 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 02:36 PM UTC
TO ALL,
Fine Scale Modeler magazine has published (3) articles on this topic thru the years.
They even included an article in one of Kalmbach's books.
There are (2) postings on Missing links web. and (2) on Track links
I would be more than willing to do an article on this topic,,,,,,,but someone else has got to be the one to take my article and reformat and do the "get on the web" thing, because I am
DUMBER than a bag of ROCKS when it comes to that. ANYONE welcome to this CO/publishing posting thing.........please send me a PM. Thanx Todd
Fine Scale Modeler magazine has published (3) articles on this topic thru the years.
They even included an article in one of Kalmbach's books.
There are (2) postings on Missing links web. and (2) on Track links
I would be more than willing to do an article on this topic,,,,,,,but someone else has got to be the one to take my article and reformat and do the "get on the web" thing, because I am
DUMBER than a bag of ROCKS when it comes to that. ANYONE welcome to this CO/publishing posting thing.........please send me a PM. Thanx Todd
Sealhead
Member Since: May 18, 2003
entire network: 427 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 03:10 AM UTC
Hey Modelers,
If I can do it, anybody can. I got the etchant from Radio Shack and cleaned a piece of brass with steel wool. Just to practice, before I tried the p-n-p paper, I used a Sharpie to make some random lines, etc. Popped it in a glass tray and sloshed it ocassionally and it ate thru the unmarked areas perfectly.
I even bought a rock tumbler so it would tumble the solution and part for me, but it dissolved the part. So, I retuned the tumbler.
It is better to do it in a glass jar with a lid so you can see if the material removed is where you want it and no more than that. I am now looking for a simple drawing program so I can make exact masters for the p-n-p paper method. (Any ideas?)
I cannot understate that this stuff stains everything. Protect the area around where you are working and wear all the clothes you hate anyway.
Sealhead
(Kansas Sunflower)
If I can do it, anybody can. I got the etchant from Radio Shack and cleaned a piece of brass with steel wool. Just to practice, before I tried the p-n-p paper, I used a Sharpie to make some random lines, etc. Popped it in a glass tray and sloshed it ocassionally and it ate thru the unmarked areas perfectly.
I even bought a rock tumbler so it would tumble the solution and part for me, but it dissolved the part. So, I retuned the tumbler.
It is better to do it in a glass jar with a lid so you can see if the material removed is where you want it and no more than that. I am now looking for a simple drawing program so I can make exact masters for the p-n-p paper method. (Any ideas?)
I cannot understate that this stuff stains everything. Protect the area around where you are working and wear all the clothes you hate anyway.
Sealhead
(Kansas Sunflower)crossbow
Member Since: April 11, 2003
entire network: 1,387 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 03:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Modelers,
I am now looking for a simple drawing program so I can make exact masters for the p-n-p paper method. (Any ideas?)
I cannot understate that this stuff stains everything. Protect the area around where you are working and wear all the clothes you hate anyway.
a) use Paint (standard in all versions of windows), and print out your design if possible on an inktjet printer. The black covering on a transparent sheet is better than on a laser printer.
b)See if you can buy "fine etch crystals", these don't stain so hard, are less damaging to your clothes and best of all they give better etch results.
Kris
Grumpyoldman
ConsigliereMember Since: October 17, 2003
entire network: 15,338 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 04:44 AM UTC
Been doing this a while.
I usually do the drawing with the sharpie
on the brass
cut away as much excess as I can, and mount the piece of brass
to a piece of electrical tape.
I then mount the tape to a piece of Tee shaped sprue,
then put this into the container vertically,
with the top of the T resting on the lip of the container
glently rocking the sprue back and forth occasionally.
as the acid desolves the brass the brass drop off,
the parts protected by the sharpie, remain attached to the tape.
then when finished a bath with water and baking powder, neturializes
the acid, and you have you part still on the tape.
when you want to remove it, a drop of liguid cement will loosen it.
I've never tried using anything thicker than .05 brass.
I THINK the sercet is to cut away as much of the excess brass.
The less excess brass the acid has to eat away, the stronger the acid will remain.
And NO, not all have turned out perfect.
I usually do the drawing with the sharpie
on the brass
cut away as much excess as I can, and mount the piece of brass
to a piece of electrical tape.
I then mount the tape to a piece of Tee shaped sprue,
then put this into the container vertically,
with the top of the T resting on the lip of the container
glently rocking the sprue back and forth occasionally.
as the acid desolves the brass the brass drop off,
the parts protected by the sharpie, remain attached to the tape.
then when finished a bath with water and baking powder, neturializes
the acid, and you have you part still on the tape.
when you want to remove it, a drop of liguid cement will loosen it.
I've never tried using anything thicker than .05 brass.
I THINK the sercet is to cut away as much of the excess brass.
The less excess brass the acid has to eat away, the stronger the acid will remain.
And NO, not all have turned out perfect.
Trackjam
Member Since: April 12, 2002
entire network: 831 Posts
KitMaker Network: 210 Posts
Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 02:05 PM UTC
I've also had some success with this. I do my artwork on drafting paper and make it four times the required size. then I take the artwork to a graphic arts shop and get them to photgraphically reduce it onto clear mylar at at redcution to the correst size. It provides all the detail you need.
RotorHead67
Member Since: May 07, 2003
entire network: 1,174 Posts
KitMaker Network: 161 Posts
Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 05:44 PM UTC
Very interesting,but can you get this stuff in the UK.There used to be an equivilant to Radio Shack that was called Tandy in Britain,but they closed shop.TIA...Dave [/quote]
WE MUST ALL KEEP ONE thing in mind. Reguardless where we live these solutions are a HAZARDOUS material. So availabilaty may be hard to come by. The PCB etch is acid...period, and as stated before the nuetralizer can be a Comerrcial product or water & baking soda, all of this STUFF can be bought at Radio Shack, Ritz camera, New York Photo, Photos Plus or any other good quality photo shop.
AS PER PAUL,
He does his Dwgs by hand 4x the size of the finished product. This is done to increase the level of detail. But the finished Dwg. still becomes a clear mylar based Negative......just like real photography pricaples.
I use AUTOCAD15 to do my artwork.
[/quote]WE MUST ALL KEEP ONE thing in mind. Reguardless where we live these solutions are a HAZARDOUS material. So availabilaty may be hard to come by. The PCB etch is acid...period, and as stated before the nuetralizer can be a Comerrcial product or water & baking soda, all of this STUFF can be bought at Radio Shack, Ritz camera, New York Photo, Photos Plus or any other good quality photo shop.
AS PER PAUL,
He does his Dwgs by hand 4x the size of the finished product. This is done to increase the level of detail. But the finished Dwg. still becomes a clear mylar based Negative......just like real photography pricaples.
I use AUTOCAD15 to do my artwork.
matt
Campaigns AdministratorMember Since: February 28, 2002
entire network: 5,957 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2,626 Posts
Posted: Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:28 AM UTC
Guys, Just a Tip. Go to the Radio Shack website and check if you local stoer has it in stock first. (You could Call too) I had to go to 4 different stores to find one that had it in stock.
Gonna give it a try in the next few days........
Gonna give it a try in the next few days........
bytepilot
Member Since: June 01, 2002
entire network: 381 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 04:23 PM UTC
Hi Guys,
I just have a question here. I am an electronics engineer myself, and had tried my hand at making a PCB years ago, using a PCB board(copper with plastic backing), and ferric chloride solution.
My q is wrt the brass or copper sheet that's been used by other folks on this post. You mention that you just painted(or drew) patterns for the areas which need to be protected. But this would be just on one side of the sheet, right? What do you do to protect the other side - paint it? Or are you drawing the patterns on both sides?
Why I'm asking this is that I used a PCB board that has copper with a plastic backing to it. The plastic backing would ensure that the solution only eats away the copper/brass upto the level of the plastic, leaving the masked areas unharmed.
Sorry if I sound like a dunce #:-), but I'm really curious about this technique. Need it to make my own aircraft PE parts...
Cheers,
BP.
I just have a question here. I am an electronics engineer myself, and had tried my hand at making a PCB years ago, using a PCB board(copper with plastic backing), and ferric chloride solution.
My q is wrt the brass or copper sheet that's been used by other folks on this post. You mention that you just painted(or drew) patterns for the areas which need to be protected. But this would be just on one side of the sheet, right? What do you do to protect the other side - paint it? Or are you drawing the patterns on both sides?
Why I'm asking this is that I used a PCB board that has copper with a plastic backing to it. The plastic backing would ensure that the solution only eats away the copper/brass upto the level of the plastic, leaving the masked areas unharmed.
Sorry if I sound like a dunce #:-), but I'm really curious about this technique. Need it to make my own aircraft PE parts...
Cheers,
BP.
RotorHead67
Member Since: May 07, 2003
entire network: 1,174 Posts
KitMaker Network: 161 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 09:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
My q is wrt the brass or copper sheet that's been used by other folks on this post. You mention that you just painted(or drew) patterns for the areas which need to be protected. But this would be just on one side of the sheet, right? What do you do to protect the other side - paint it? Or are you drawing the patterns on both sides?
Why I'm asking this is that I used a PCB board that has copper with a plastic backing to it. The plastic backing would ensure that the solution only eats away the copper/brass upto the level of the plastic, leaving the masked areas unharmed.
BytePilot,
In elec. PCB production. The copper becomes the elec wire path as you know. The plastic is just to provide a rigid base.
In PE detailing : the marked side provides enough blocked image to retain that area during the acid etch process. The bath does eat both sides of the brass sheet, but the
fact that one side has the drawing on it w/ sharpie. This portion is left behind. Hence becomes the wanted part. This is why selection of brass sheet thickness and etch bath time is important. You can etch the whole piece too long and it dissolves.
HOPE this helps.
Sealhead
Member Since: May 18, 2003
entire network: 427 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 03:55 PM UTC
By using p-n-p (press 'n peel) paper, you can make patterns for the front and back. Make registration squares at points outside the brass piece. Print out the p-n-p paper and line up with a strong light behind the paper. Touch up with a Sharpie pen if needed.
I am looking at CorelDraw 2 Essentials (about $60) for a drawing program that is better than paint because paint makes lousy circles. Any comments? It's supposed to be learnable in 2 days with an excellent training CD.
Sealhead (Kansas Sunflower)
I am looking at CorelDraw 2 Essentials (about $60) for a drawing program that is better than paint because paint makes lousy circles. Any comments? It's supposed to be learnable in 2 days with an excellent training CD.
Sealhead
(Kansas Sunflower)firemann816
Member Since: September 14, 2003
entire network: 790 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 05:32 AM UTC
I dont know about CorelDraw Essentials but I got Corel Draw 11.
It is very impressive.
If you ever want to print your own decals from artwork or scanned images, it is
vector based as opposed to raster based (or vice versa) so it exceeds MS Paint in that area as well.
Paint's strength is it is ubiquitous and can be assumed by an author to be present on any Windows box.
However Corel, PhotoShop, and maybe a few other proggies can resize images without "Pixel-ating" them because of being either vector or raster based.
I just cant remember which one is the desirable one... Sorry.
I've heard that Corel Draw 11 is available on the P2P file sharing networks and the CD Key is on the web.
It would be sweet if someone wrote an article on how to do this with a LOT of pictures of the process, products needed, and results...
It is very impressive.
If you ever want to print your own decals from artwork or scanned images, it is
vector based as opposed to raster based (or vice versa) so it exceeds MS Paint in that area as well.
Paint's strength is it is ubiquitous and can be assumed by an author to be present on any Windows box.
However Corel, PhotoShop, and maybe a few other proggies can resize images without "Pixel-ating" them because of being either vector or raster based.
I just cant remember which one is the desirable one... Sorry.
I've heard that Corel Draw 11 is available on the P2P file sharing networks and the CD Key is on the web.
It would be sweet if someone wrote an article on how to do this with a LOT of pictures of the process, products needed, and results...
ambrose82
Member Since: November 15, 2003
entire network: 249 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:35 PM UTC
Ignorant question here... Where can one purchase Press 'n peel paper that can be run through a computer?
Or, is the mylar used to create the negative which is then pressed onto the brass through the PNP paper?
Not sure how one transfers the artwork from the mylar to the brass... please help.
Thanks you brilliant guys!
Or, is the mylar used to create the negative which is then pressed onto the brass through the PNP paper?
Not sure how one transfers the artwork from the mylar to the brass... please help.
Thanks you brilliant guys!
chip250
Member Since: September 01, 2002
entire network: 1,864 Posts
KitMaker Network: 606 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:47 PM UTC
I feel so stupid, but is this the kind that you can use in like, detail sets? That kind of PE?
What do you o with this kind?
~Chip :-)
What do you o with this kind?
~Chip :-)
ambrose82
Member Since: November 15, 2003
entire network: 249 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 07:22 PM UTC
Chip250,
You got it. It's PE stuff (like Eduard and the like) that is made at home using the same basic methodology used by the companies producing and selling the stuff.
It can be used for all the same applications, zimmermit, straps and buckles, grille work, etc. all made in the comfort of your own home.
This has really intrigued me and I just need a few more details (see previous post) to really get rolling on this.
You got it. It's PE stuff (like Eduard and the like) that is made at home using the same basic methodology used by the companies producing and selling the stuff.
It can be used for all the same applications, zimmermit, straps and buckles, grille work, etc. all made in the comfort of your own home.
This has really intrigued me and I just need a few more details (see previous post) to really get rolling on this.
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