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Why Brick and Mortar Shops are Failing
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Member Since: May 14, 2006
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:49 AM UTC
Then buy it but that will not always be the case.
thehannaman
Member Since: April 04, 2006
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 09:09 AM UTC
Matt,
Please Google "predatory pricing." Most of your concerns will be explained.
Please Google "predatory pricing." Most of your concerns will be explained.
viper29_ca
Member Since: October 18, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 09:33 AM UTC
And where in the US are you getting it for that price?
Whoever it is must like loosing money on it, because I know for a fact that the cost from any of the suppliers to the hobby shops is about that (actually couple bucks more)
I will admit that $58 is a little pricey for that kit (think I have it for $45CDN), but $28?? Is below cost.
Buy it at that price while you can, whomever it is selling it for that won't be in business long if they aren't making a profit.
Whoever it is must like loosing money on it, because I know for a fact that the cost from any of the suppliers to the hobby shops is about that (actually couple bucks more)
I will admit that $58 is a little pricey for that kit (think I have it for $45CDN), but $28?? Is below cost.
Buy it at that price while you can, whomever it is selling it for that won't be in business long if they aren't making a profit.
mmeier
Member Since: October 22, 2008
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 12:11 PM UTC
Can't say for the US but in germany:
Postage over 25€ of order value typically is free in most online shops. Amazon is free 20€ for non books
Two of the biggest online shops here have showrooms (or had them until a recent relocation, looking to re-open) but driving there is at least an hour (King Models) so online is cheaper
For most shops models are "add on" not the primary offer. And while some do custom orders they are slow and cost more than online
Some of the cheaper online shops are actually "main german retailer" for at least one of the big companies (ie King Models for Academy) allowing them to make better prices
Amazon is really fast (1-3 days) and Conrad (the big "sell everything technical" shop in D) delivers paints in the same timeframe. And Revell paints are found at Toys R Us here.
Between those facts the "little model store" has a hard time competing. Few shops "know" what they sell (gaming / roleplay shops have the same problem) so there is little "shop talk" (ONE of the three shops in good range has a modeller on staff) reducing the shop value even further
And the small shops stock what sells most. So when 98 out of 100 modelers build "Tiger Auf. B Too late" and 2 build something without Swasticas - The mobile bunker 6 is in store and the M60 isn't
Postage over 25€ of order value typically is free in most online shops. Amazon is free 20€ for non books
Two of the biggest online shops here have showrooms (or had them until a recent relocation, looking to re-open) but driving there is at least an hour (King Models) so online is cheaper
For most shops models are "add on" not the primary offer. And while some do custom orders they are slow and cost more than online
Some of the cheaper online shops are actually "main german retailer" for at least one of the big companies (ie King Models for Academy) allowing them to make better prices
Amazon is really fast (1-3 days) and Conrad (the big "sell everything technical" shop in D) delivers paints in the same timeframe. And Revell paints are found at Toys R Us here.
Between those facts the "little model store" has a hard time competing. Few shops "know" what they sell (gaming / roleplay shops have the same problem) so there is little "shop talk" (ONE of the three shops in good range has a modeller on staff) reducing the shop value even further
And the small shops stock what sells most. So when 98 out of 100 modelers build "Tiger Auf. B Too late" and 2 build something without Swasticas - The mobile bunker 6 is in store and the M60 isn't
Plasticbattle
#003
Member Since: May 14, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 11:32 PM UTC
Another thing that must affect today, is the sheer amount of kits that are available. Not many shops can bring them all in and worse ... keep a stock of them. Again theres the release rate ... almost every week there is at least one new kit released.
Considering the demanding nature of many modellers ... not having every kit they want at their dispose and immediate availability at low cost, its no wonder the brick and mortar is crumbling.
Support your local shop with what you can ... its only when its gone will you really appreciate what you had.
Considering the demanding nature of many modellers ... not having every kit they want at their dispose and immediate availability at low cost, its no wonder the brick and mortar is crumbling.
Support your local shop with what you can ... its only when its gone will you really appreciate what you had.
fhvn4d
#159
Member Since: April 07, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 02:57 PM UTC
I'll add my .02$. One of the things I have noticed, and Katy at my hobby shop is GREAT about doing right by, is how you pay. I have been a die hard credit carder for years, always keep the balance low but I use it for EVERYTHING. I used to go to the hobby shop and I average about 100 dollars a month. One trip a month. Well, then the light dawned on me. The Credit Card companies charge the vendor a fee to use the machine, PLUS they charge the merchant interest on balances etc. My LHS is a great place stocked with just about anything I need. Its an hour drive, but I make a day of it and take another modeller with me. Again, they are great, because for the prices I pay for things in CASH, I can do a little better. Mostly because that 2.5% that the CC company charges the vendor doesnt get involved. Nor is there any shipping charges. So, in the long run, I PROBABLY pay a tiny bit more in cash than I MIGHT save up front on the internet, but when you count in the 2.5% that the vendors paying to the cc company, the shipping charges, and the interest charged to me on purchases, I'll spend more in cash at my LHS and walk out the door with it. No waiting! And who doesnt love to walk the aisles looking for that one gem model you dont have, or through the paint trays, or the decal wall ( yes, theres a half of a wall dedicated to decals and PE). I love my LHS. I hope they stay in business forever.
SgtRam
Contributing Writer#197
Member Since: March 06, 2011
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Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 01:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I can purchase the T-90 online for $28. At the hobby store, it retails for $58. OK. So that is only a 105% markup.
Matt, ok if that is the case then share the wealth. If you say some one is selling it for that price, prove it, show us the link?
exer
Member Since: November 27, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 03:28 AM UTC
My LHS Allmodels otherwise known to most Irish modellers as Walshie's 
is great.
I admit that I buy most of my new kits online but I buy all my plastic figure kits and some vehicle kits plus glue paint weathering stuff etc. there once in a while I'll splash out and buy a high end kit.
The owner ,Paul Walsh, works extremely hard at it- he deals in Militaria too and he takes a table at nearly every hobby show and militaria show in the country.
If he's feeling especially generous he might even make you a cup of tea if you bring the biscuits.
There are always a couple of modelers chatting in the store and he'll always give a regular customer a good discount.
I'd certainly miss it if he shut up shop and retired to the riviera with his millions
is great.I admit that I buy most of my new kits online but I buy all my plastic figure kits and some vehicle kits plus glue paint weathering stuff etc. there once in a while I'll splash out and buy a high end kit.
The owner ,Paul Walsh, works extremely hard at it- he deals in Militaria too and he takes a table at nearly every hobby show and militaria show in the country.
If he's feeling especially generous he might even make you a cup of tea if you bring the biscuits.
There are always a couple of modelers chatting in the store and he'll always give a regular customer a good discount.
I'd certainly miss it if he shut up shop and retired to the riviera with his millions
russamotto
Member Since: December 14, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 07:47 AM UTC
My LHS was well situated. The guy owned an excellent location, huge space. He died. His son moved the store to a smaller, less convenient location. He stopped advertising. Raised his prices excessively. He went from managing a business to trying to get all the cash out he could. He was told by his employees that the prices were too high. He quit ordering new kits because he couldn't move his existing inventory. I shopped there as often as I could afford, but for me, and most others, it became too much. When he closed down, the only surprise was that it lasted as long as it did. There are a couple of model railroad shops still around were I can get a few things. Hobby Lobby has a limited selection. Anything even remotely close is now exclusively RC. If I want something now it usually must come from online. There are no other options left. When I was 10, life was much easier. Four different hobby stores withing bike riding distance. Even the drug store had model kits.
SgtRam
Contributing Writer#197
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Posted: Monday, June 18, 2012 - 12:40 AM UTC
Still waiting to hear from Matt where the $28 T-90 can be found?
sweaver
Member Since: April 19, 2007
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Posted: Monday, June 18, 2012 - 06:28 AM UTC
Welcome to capitalism, folks!
Why is the LHS disappearing? It's just simple economics. This kind of thing has been happening since time immemorial—the market/society comes up with a better way to provide a service, and the old way begins to fall by the wayside. As the new wins out, people squeal about how they hate it, but years later, nobody cares. Steam locomotives, anyone?
While I agree with Darren that it is nice to get something right away, I think Joe pretty much has it down (in his second post). It's just simply too expensive for LHS owners. With all the overhead (paint racks, utilities, etc) the costs are unbearable, and they have to mark up, thereby sending savvy shoppers to the internet. Its a tightening death spiral.
I do think that there will always be some hobby shops, just not as many of them as we have now. We're in a painful period as the market flushes out the inefficiencies.
Why is the LHS disappearing? It's just simple economics. This kind of thing has been happening since time immemorial—the market/society comes up with a better way to provide a service, and the old way begins to fall by the wayside. As the new wins out, people squeal about how they hate it, but years later, nobody cares. Steam locomotives, anyone?
While I agree with Darren that it is nice to get something right away, I think Joe pretty much has it down (in his second post). It's just simply too expensive for LHS owners. With all the overhead (paint racks, utilities, etc) the costs are unbearable, and they have to mark up, thereby sending savvy shoppers to the internet. Its a tightening death spiral.
I do think that there will always be some hobby shops, just not as many of them as we have now. We're in a painful period as the market flushes out the inefficiencies.
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefMember Since: May 14, 2006
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Posted: Monday, June 18, 2012 - 06:45 AM UTC
I have sent Matt a message asking where in the USA the T90 can be bought for $28 as I am sure members in the USA and Canada will be interested in picking one up for that price. If he replies we will run a news story on Armorama.
CDK
Member Since: September 24, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 12:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Along with that, I am the only CDN dealer for AK Interactive,
Actually Scott, Dave Browne of Hornet Hobbies in Toronto has carried the full line for some time now.
In fact, I think he completely restocked his rack while at AMPS in Auburn, (and bought my GAZ dio to display in his shop for an undisclosed sum
).SgtRam
Contributing Writer#197
Member Since: March 06, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 12:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAlong with that, I am the only CDN dealer for AK Interactive,
Actually Scott, Dave Browne of Hornet Hobbies in Toronto has carried the full line for some time now.
In fact, I think he completely restocked his rack while at AMPS in Auburn, (and bought my GAZ dio to display in his shop for an undisclosed sum
Hobby House in Ottawa also carries a selective amount of AK Interactive as well, and can order in anything from them you need.
mikado
Member Since: July 10, 2005
entire network: 329 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 05:37 PM UTC
Tamiya found out a long time ago that their RC inventory moves faster than their plastic model..Based on that they changed and put more focus on RC, divert some of their profit from RC to ensure continuity of their plastic model bussiness.
Where I come from (Singapore), a lot of LHS are also closing down due to competition from the internet, but they are also closing due to instant gratification from PS3 and xBOX..
However, in one of my trip to K.L. in Malaysia, I chance upon a model shop where the owner was using the same approach as Tamiya.. He had a big RC section and a slighter smaller plastic model section; Naturally, there were more RC enthusiastic in the shop but the owner was more interested in sharing with me some of the weathering techniques..than what he has in his RC section..
This was 3 years ago...cant remember where the shop was and what was the name...Maybe Justen, Scott can consider using the Tamiya appraoch as well...just my 2.5 cents.
Where I come from (Singapore), a lot of LHS are also closing down due to competition from the internet, but they are also closing due to instant gratification from PS3 and xBOX..
However, in one of my trip to K.L. in Malaysia, I chance upon a model shop where the owner was using the same approach as Tamiya.. He had a big RC section and a slighter smaller plastic model section; Naturally, there were more RC enthusiastic in the shop but the owner was more interested in sharing with me some of the weathering techniques..than what he has in his RC section..
This was 3 years ago...cant remember where the shop was and what was the name...Maybe Justen, Scott can consider using the Tamiya appraoch as well...just my 2.5 cents.
SEDimmick
Member Since: March 15, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 01:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Where I come from (Singapore), a lot of LHS are also closing down due to competition from the internet, but they are also closing due to instant gratification from PS3 and xBOX..
Video games have been around 30-40 years now...quit using that as a problem when it comes to hobby industry. Heck I game on a PC, Xbox360 and PS3 (well not so much the PS3 these days) and I still build models and I was raised on video games since the Atari 2600
mikado
Member Since: July 10, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 04:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Where I come from (Singapore), a lot of LHS are also closing down due to competition from the internet, but they are also closing due to instant gratification from PS3 and xBOX..
Video games have been around 30-40 years now...quit using that as a problem when it comes to hobby industry. Heck I game on a PC, Xbox360 and PS3 (well not so much the PS3 these days) and I still build models and I was raised on video games since the Atari 2600
Scott...I am not sure about teenagers in United States..but I find.."Ahem"..teenagers in Singapore these days lack the patience to do plastic modelling...I guess it could be a generation gap thing..since I am in my early forties. Video games was hard to come by in my part of the world when I was in my teens during the mid 80s
MSGsummit
Member Since: November 16, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 05:52 AM UTC
I think Mike has made a valid point to a degree. I started building models when I was a kid when you were lucky if you had more than 5 channels on tv, the Atari 2600 was cutting edge (an very few people had one, cell phones and the internet where mere science fiction and if it wasn't raining....you had to play outside. My point is, there is much more for the younger generations to do on a rainy day or during "free time" where as I built models on such days or after watching the latest episode of little house on the praire. "instant gratification" IMHO has contributed greatly to the overall decline in popularity to our hobby and to one degree or another the LHS.
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefMember Since: May 14, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 07:07 AM UTC
Matt has told me he has lost the link to the site selling the Zvezda T90 for $28 due to some computer issues and so we cannot provide a news story for you. If anyone locates the site please let us know and we will cover it here as a news item.
viper29_ca
Member Since: October 18, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 04:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAlong with that, I am the only CDN dealer for AK Interactive,
Actually Scott, Dave Browne of Hornet Hobbies in Toronto has carried the full line for some time now.
In fact, I think he completely restocked his rack while at AMPS in Auburn, (and bought my GAZ dio to display in his shop for an undisclosed sum
Ahh, well, just going by what Iain told me from AK USA....said he gets many people from Canada ordering from him, and they he was glad I came on as a CDN shop, as he had none buying from him at the moment, and that was just a couple of months since I have been bringing it in.
CDK
Member Since: September 24, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 02:21 AM UTC
I would have to guess that he meant in the north east, as he's been dealing with Hornet for quite some time now.
18Bravo
Member Since: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 02:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Matt has told me he has lost the link to the site selling the Zvezda T90 for $28 due to some computer issues and so we cannot provide a news story for you. If anyone locates the site please let us know and we will cover it here as a news item.
I haven't been paying much attention to modelling these days, but are we talking about the Zvezda kit? It may not be selling in the US, but if I can get it here, then essentially it's available here.
There's one on Ebay for $21.20, plus $16.00 shipping. A total of $37.20.
If I could find one in an LHS for $28.00, I'd have to add $2.38 for tax (Jerry Jones apparently couldn't afford his own stadium) and about $6.00 for gas. That's if HobbyTown USA even has it, which I doubt.
Now, if I go to either one of the HobbyTowns in Colorado Springs when I'm there, the chances of finding it are better, but I guarantee it won't be $28.00, and I still have to go out of my way to go get it. Oh, for fun, I could throw in the cost of my time at say, the rate I get as a contractor, and the choice is a no brainer. That, and the fact that I've dealt with certain sellers on Ebay so often the give me even better deals when I buy three of the same kit. I can do a whole transaction and never leave the comfort of my man cave.
Will it be my fault if the local LHS goes out of business? Nope. They all have the opportunity to diversify, and RC is a huge deal for a lot of folks. Just today at the gym there was a local show on about Mike's Hobby Shop, which boasts the largest RC racetrack in the country. He has survived for 25 years, whereas at least 16 other local shops have gone under during roughly the same time.
retiredyank
Member Since: June 29, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, June 28, 2012 - 11:59 AM UTC
It has been a while since I have been able to bring up this thread. Let me start by apologizing for not having information on the T-90. I had to completely reload my computer, after contracting a virus I suspect came from my P2P conection. I am not intending to attack brick and mortar shops in any way. I was only stating a fact. Actually, I just bought Revell's U.D.T. Boat as a request from my father. I will use this in a campaign, later on. As far as customs go, I have never had any fees for purchases under $100. Possibly, that is a thing of the past. However, I doubt this. I buy all of my paints from my LHS and occassionally pick up a kit. It does have fair prices on ships and aircraft. It relies on model RR and RC items to keep it up and running. What I hate to see is that they are jacking up the prices, now that they are the only dedicated static model store in Jacksonville. I have run my own business, before and realize that inflation may seem the way to make a quick buck. This, however, leaves the customers unhappy. Consequently, they turn to the internet's plethora of shops for their next purchase. I don't mean to speak poorly of the customers, either. They are hurting from a crumbling economy and only doing what they have to to keep the plastic flowing. I have been tirelessly searching for the T-90, but have had no luck. I will continue to search for the site and will post it as soon as I find it.
I'm out
Matt
I'm out
Matt
pzcreations
Member Since: May 24, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 04:28 AM UTC
Im not sure where anyone gets that Dragons initial order must be $1500. They never told me that, and my first order with them as a dealer was only $400. I will say this though, if Dragon USA continues with their weekly sales and offering their kits below what they charge dealers, then not only will LHS go under, but so will the online retailers. And theyre not the only distributors doing it, but Id say they are the worst. As for LHS pricing,they could survive IF they would also have an online store, and also offer their kits to their walk-in customers at or near their online prices. Kits then would not sit on the shelf collecting dust. Yes, they would make less profit per kit, but then theyd move more ,making more profit in the long run.
SgtRam
Contributing Writer#197
Member Since: March 06, 2011
entire network: 3,971 Posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 04:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextAlong with that, I am the only CDN dealer for AK Interactive,
Actually Scott, Dave Browne of Hornet Hobbies in Toronto has carried the full line for some time now.
In fact, I think he completely restocked his rack while at AMPS in Auburn, (and bought my GAZ dio to display in his shop for an undisclosed sum
Ahh, well, just going by what Iain told me from AK USA....said he gets many people from Canada ordering from him, and they he was glad I came on as a CDN shop, as he had none buying from him at the moment, and that was just a couple of months since I have been bringing it in.
Scott
If I am not wrong, I beleive some hobby shops are dealing through Stevens. I know Iain is trying, but I beleive Stevens is dealing with AK in Spain, and is able to get their newer products faster. I know I have been able to get newer products through my LHS before they are listed on the AK USA site.
Kevin
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